Thread: Biden says U.S. willing to use force to defend Taiwan prompting backlash from China

Originally Posted by Backspin

Do you really think that those ships that China has built are on an even keel with the ships the US has built? If you do, you are a special kind of stupid.

Originally Posted by Shutree

Remember this from 1994?

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

Item #3 and #6 on the Budapest memorandum

Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.

The EU association agreement was pure economic coercion designed to subordinate Ukraine to the EU's interest. And it is blatantly obvious. The pre 2014 government rejected the EU asn agreement last minute. Then that government was overthrown by a coup. And THEN, the new government comes into power and RIPS UP the part of the Ukraine constitution that says Ukraine must remain a NON ALIGNED state. Which it was from 1991 until the newly installed govt ripped up the constition and thats why there's a war.

Here : Ukraine votes to drop non-aligned status - BBC News

Ukraine's parliament has voted to drop the country's non-aligned status and work towards Nato membership.

Originally Posted by Bonecollector

^came back to make this very point. If backspins theory was correct, then, we would never have had any wars.

Also, I wonder if you have heard of all the Chinese uni scholarships given to students in Siberia. Why do you think they are doing that? I know of a russian girl from Siberia who got a Chinese uni scholarship and now works in Taiwan. The balls already rolling on this one im afraid.

So China shouldn't worry about the US building naval bases on Taiwan ?

Originally Posted by Backspin

RIPS UP the part of the Ukraine constitution that says Ukraine must remain a NON ALIGNED state

Got a link for that?

Originally Posted by pickel

Got a link for that?

Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine - Wikipedia

Deklaratsiia pro derzhavnyi suvernitet Ukrainy) was adopted on July 16, 1990, by the elected parliament of Ukrainian SSR by a vote of 355 for and four against.[1][2]


The document decreed that Ukrainian SSR laws took precedence over the laws of the USSR, and declared that the Ukrainian SSR would maintain its own army and its own national bank with the power to introduce its own currency.[2] The declaration also proclaimed that the republic has intent to become in a future "a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs," and that it would not accept, nor produce, nor procure nuclear weapons.[2]


This is theoretically what could be negotiated between China and the US over Taiwan too. Taiwan could be its own state just like Ukraine was, as long as it never joins a military bloc. It could be enshrined in its constitution. But none of these deals are worth the paper they are written on because the US will just rip them up as it pleases. Just as it did with Ukraine.

Which is why China has no choice but to go to war.

Originally Posted by Backspin

But none of these deals are worth the paper they are written on because the US will just rip them up as it pleases

Or the Chinese will as they did in Hong Kong.

Frankly, I don't think China will militarily invade Taiwan. Way too much to lose for little gain. More likely China and Taiwan, as they have before, will come to some sort of arrangement economically beneficial to both.

Originally Posted by Norton

Further, the US wants to be the only hegemony in the world and will not tolerate another.
They have since WW2 prevented a European nation from doing so and no way Russia going to dominate Europe.
Tiawan is but one of many US tactics to prevent China achieving hegemony over Asia. Others being close allies economically and militarily with the vast majority of Asian nations.

So far so good. The US has the Europeans pretty much in line to keep Russia from dominating Europe.

China domination of Asia is a much bigger challenge however. China not there yet in dominance of Asia but getting there pdq.

Well said.
I heard some place that the Chinese have an interesting curse.
"May you live in interesting times" and we certainly live in very , not in a good way. interesting times.
Though with thousands dead,many don't even get the chance to even live in "interesting" times
In the meantime the Ukrainians are fed into the meat grinder in the service of American hegemony. And the friends of Ukraine are celebrating the process, even by otherwise intelligent, well intending people in this forum .
I am afraid, as always is the case, " The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
I wonder how saint Zelensky's offshore accounts are doing?

Originally Posted by Backspin

Ukraine's parliament has voted to drop the country's non-aligned status and work towards Nato membership.

Only vatnik morons like you think that this is why ruzzia invaded Ukraine. Putin had been planning to invade Ukraine for years. But you keep pushing your horseshit propaganda.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

In the meantime the Ukrainians are fed into the meat grinder in the service of American hegemony.

Ukrainians are willing to fight with shovels and stones if need be. They are not driven to fight.

Originally Posted by Backspin

"a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs,"

Ukraine wasn't a member of of a military bloc in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea, nor when Russia invaded the rest of the country last year. They should have kept their nukes.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Yes, we do. Plus, NATO and the EU is the only thing stopping Turkey from simply swallowing up Greece and letting go of an oily fart afterwards

I hope you realise that NATO's existence and NATO's expansion are two different things. But I can see how you might be confused since both words start "ex"and contain a bunch of other letters .

Originally Posted by panama hat

No 'ex' anywhere aside from Greece being an ex-country if it were not for NATO and the EU.

Good try but no cigar. I know you understood what I said. Because if you didn't this conversation is pointless.

Originally Posted by panama hat

The difference being fighting for your country, fighting off invaders.

. You are stating the obvious
No one claims that they were not invaded or that they have the right to resist such invasion.
The claim is what lead to the invasion.

Originally Posted by panama hat

As much as your US-centric thinking is interesting you may also like to consider the fact that Europe does not want Russian dominance or even threats irrespective of the US' wishes or not.
You and some others here make it sound like European nations are puppets on a string for the 'big boys' . . . let me assure you that is hardly the case.

Big boy singular, Hatters. Of course the Euros don't want to be dominated by Russia. Hence they have chosen to build strong military and economic ties to the US. This does in fact require concessions to the US which at times can be detremental to a specific Euro nation.

Not a shred of US centric thinking on my part. Just an understanding of real politics and how alliances come to be.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Yes indeed because Ukrainians are known to spontaneously break into fights without a reason

Being attacked by Russia is not a good reason? What universe do you live in?

Not driven to fight obviously refers to external/NATO/US.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Being attacked by Russia is not a good reason? What universe do you live in?

Not driven to fight obviously refers to external/NATO/US.

I am afraid the irony went over your head. Nobody believes the the Ukrainians are known to fight for no reason.
Of course when invaded ,any nationality including the Ukrainians will will fight tooth and nail.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

I am afraid the irony went over your head.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Of course when invaded ,any nationality including the Ukrainians will will fight tooth and nail.

Seems the bleed over from Ukraine to Taiwan is clear. China will lose just the same as ruzzia is losing. They will never take Taiwan by force as they are a shit paper tiger like ruzzia.

Amphibious warfare is the most complicated of all and requires advanced level of capabilities in combined arms operations. China like ruzzia can not do either until proven otherwise.

Originally Posted by pickel

Ukraine wasn't a member of of a military bloc in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea, nor when Russia invaded the rest of the country last year. They should have kept their nukes.

Each of these paragraphs are from the Nato Wikipedia page which is closely guarded and US biased.

Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.

Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.

On 7 February 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted with a majority of 334 out of 385 to change the Ukrainian constitution to help Ukraine to join NATO -To exit neutrality and non alignment and join the US sphere of interest (me)



At the June 2021 Brussels summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest summit that Ukraine would eventually become a NATO member with the MAP as an integral part of the process, and Ukraine's right to determine its future and foreign policy without outside interference. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO "as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest




So in 2008, the US announced its intention to remove Ukraine from non aligned neutral status and join its sphere of influence. And in doing so, they accuse Russia of trying to return Ukraine to the era of spheres of interest.

Originally Posted by Backspin

Each of these paragraphs are from the Nato Wikipedia page which is closely guarded and US biased.

Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.

Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.

On 7 February 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted with a majority of 334 out of 385 to change the Ukrainian constitution to help Ukraine to join NATO -To exit neutrality and non alignment and join the US sphere of interest (me)



At the June 2021 Brussels summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest summit that Ukraine would eventually become a NATO member with the MAP as an integral part of the process, and Ukraine's right to determine its future and foreign policy without outside interference. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO "as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest




So in 2008, the US announced its intention to remove Ukraine from non aligned neutral status and join its sphere of influence. And in doing so, they accuse Russia of trying to return Ukraine to the era of spheres of interest.

Your quote was about Ukraines constitution though, which had nothing to do with the Budapest Memorandum. As a sovereign country, thay are allowed to alter their constitution and it's none of Russias fucking business.

Originally Posted by Norton

Or the Chinese will as they did in Hong Kong.

Frankly, I don't think China will militarily invade Taiwan. Way too much to lose for little gain. More likely China and Taiwan, as they have before, will come to some sort of arrangement economically beneficial to both.

This has nothing to do with China and Taiwan. It has to do with the US and Taiwan.

What is China supposed to do when the US starts building naval bases on the island ?

US Upgrades Ukrainian Ports To Fit American Warships - Breaking Defense

WASHINGTON: As tensions rise between Russia and Ukraine on the Black Sea, the US is upgrading several Ukrainian naval bases to give American and NATO warships the ability to dock just miles from Russia-controlled Crimea. A majority of the effort is taking place at the Ochakiv, which has seen a series of visits from US Navy construction teams over the past few years.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Ukrainians are willing to fight with shovels and stones if need be. They are not driven to fight.

Umm what.. It is a civil war. The Donbas militia were all born as Ukrainians on paper. The ppl being bombed in Donbas were born Ukrainian