Ukraine war mega thread

[Molle]

How could they ?

Amend the constitution with an article saying "we'll change what we'll like" ?

Adios

If parliament can't change laws or change the constitution then who can?
Are you saying that Ukraine is stuck with an unchangeable constitution?

[Neverna]

Ukraine has previously amended their constitution. The last time was in 2019.

Ukraine on Thursday adopted "historic" changes to its constitution, spelling out the ex-Soviet country's aspirations to join the EU and NATO two months before a crucial presidential vote.

In a final third reading in parliament, a total of 334 lawmakers approved the amendments to the country's basic law, with 35 voting against.

Changes to the constitution require 300 votes to pass.

Ukraine Amends Constitution to Cement EU, NATO Course

[Bettyboo]

I'll read your posts when I get really really bored

Hows IpswitZ doing ?

Pretty badly.

BTW, Zelensky must be one of the few Jewish nazis. Try not to pick up too much Putin propaganda along the way, Helge...

I'm sure you're an aoid reader of the Jewish Chronicle, but here's a little link for you before you start the denials... How Jewish is Volodymyr Zelensky? Ukrainian president'''s heritage revealed - The Jewish Chronicle

[bsnub]

Zelensky must be one of the few Jewish nazis

Try not to pick up too much Putin propaganda along the way, Helge...

Fat chance.

[NamPikToot]

Reading some news that has been leaked that the US is trying tp get up tp 4 countries to leave the EU, further evidence that Trump is Putins useful idiot.

[cyrille]

Yeah, what sort of idiot would want to leave the EU?

[bsnub]

Yeah, what sort of idiot would want to leave the EU?

[Bettyboo]

Reading some news that has been leaked that the US is trying tp get up tp 4 countries to leave the EU, further evidence that Trump is Putins useful idiot.

That can't be true; Trump ran on an American first, no focus on other countries; leave Russia and their ilk alone - they're good sorts... He really is Putin's tool.

[helge]

Ukraine has previously amended their constitution. The last time was in 2019.

So, Nev

1. I haven't read the ukrainian constitution

2. When Zelensky again and again has stated that he can't hold elections in ...wartime, I'll take his word for it.

3. Not that I know, but I doubt that changing the constitution on such important issue can be done with an..."amendment", voted through with 2/3 of parliament

4. A change also requires an new elected parliament signing of on the change.

Maybe even a referendrum.

Ukraine Amends Constitution to Cement EU, NATO Course

Amends

Not changing from 'cannot' to 'can'


If that makes any sense

[helge]

Reading some news that has been leaked that the US is trying tp get up tp 4 countries to leave the EU, further evidence that Trump is Putins useful idiot.

Putin has said several times that Ukraine should join EU

Fact

If he means it or knows that Ukraine would cripple the EU, is another thing

No idea

[helge]

one of the few Jewish nazis.

Ha !

Wants Lebenraum-Check

Ethnic cleansing- check

Operates apartheid - check

Kills civilians en masse- check

If it walks like a duck.........

Try not to pick up too much Putin propaganda along the way, Helge...

Yeah well

Putin not needed and especially not on that issue

Most see them as cuents

[helge]

If parliament can't change laws or change the constitution then who can?

Parliament and the people

Would be the norm

Why would you want a constitution if it can be changed almost at the will of parliament ?

Not much to build on, is it ?

Are you saying that Ukraine is stuck with an unchangeable constitution?

No

Guess one of us should read up on this

[helge]

Originally Posted by bsnub
When it did, you two twats thought it would be over in three days.

Please give me a link for that

Still no link?

Can't remember I did post that.

I doubt it, but if I did I would be in agreement with Pentagon's.....72 hours.

Secondly, he has denied ruzzian war crimes

No

I have however taken all information with a grain of salt

You should do the same

and has consistently bad-mouthed Zelenskyy

Can't stand the little beggar

while worshiping his royal highness Pootin.

You are a liar

Nothing new there

[helge]

Can't stand the little beggar

Ukrainians can't either

Come election day he'll be out on arse and elbows

[helge]

Did you agree with your comrade (sabang) that this war would never happen?

This is BSnup's take on things 9 days before the invasion:

Moscow is starting to return some troops at the Ukrainian border to their bases, the Russian government announced Tuesday.

Putin blinked. He lost. His pile of money was more important.

Well spotted

[Neverna]

Parliament and the people

Would be the norm

Why would you want a constitution if it can be changed almost at the will of parliament ?

Not much to build on, is it ?


No

Guess one of us should read up on this

I just read some of the constitution. Here's a bit of it.

Article 156. A draft law on making amendments to Title I General Principles, Title III Elections, Referendum, and Title XIII Making Amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine, shall be submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the President of Ukraine, or by not less than two-thirds of the constitutional membership of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, provided that it is adopted by at least two-thirds of the constitutional members of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, be approved by an All-Ukrainian referendum called by the President of Ukraine.

Resubmission of a draft law on making amendments to Titles I, III and XIII of this Constitution, addressing the same issue, shall be possible only at a succeeding convocation of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

Article 157. The Constitution of Ukraine shall not be amended, if the amendments foresee the abolition or restriction of human and citizen rights and freedoms, or if they are aimed at the liquidation of the independence or violation of the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

The Constitution of Ukraine shall not be amended under the conditions of martial law or a state of emergency.

Sources:
Ukraine 1996 (rev. 2019) Constitution - Constitute

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

[Neverna]

Here's a bit more.

Article 10
The state language of Ukraine is the Ukrainian language.

The State ensures the comprehensive development and functioning of the Ukrainian language in all spheres of social life throughout the entire territory of Ukraine.

In Ukraine, the free development, use and protection of Russian, and other languages of national minorities of Ukraine, is guaranteed.

The State promotes the learning of languages of international communication.

The use of languages in Ukraine is guaranteed by the Constitution of Ukraine and is determined by law.

[helge]

2. When Zelensky again and again has stated that he can't hold elections in ...wartime, I'll take his word for it.

Seems that I'll have to find quotes that I heard Zelensky mention the....'constitution or the crow are on me:

[QUOTE]Ukraine’s Constitution does not explicitly address the issue of wartime elections, except for Article 83(4) that provides for the extension of the Parliament’s powers until the day of the first meeting of the first session of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine (the Ukrainian Parliament), elected after the termination of martial law or state of emergency. [/QUOTE]

Nothing similar is made with respect to the president.

Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law” (2015) prohibits the holding of elections during martial law and the Electoral Code of Ukraine (2019) ordains suspension of all elections during such period. This is not an arbitrary political decision but a constitutionally viable solution aimed at ensuring stability in times of crisis. The law prevents governance from collapsing into uncertainty while the country is under extreme conditions.
As discussed elsewhere, conducting elections under the current conditions of war in Ukraine can undermine democratic principles and, therefore, is unconstitutional.

While looking I found this:

Article 73


Issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum.

[helge]

Article 156


A draft law on introducing amendments to Chapter I — "General Principles," Chapter III — "Elections. Referendum," and Chapter XIII — "Introducing Amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine," is submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the President of Ukraine, or by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and on the condition that it is adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and is approved by an All-Ukrainian referendum designated by the President of Ukraine.
The repeat submission of a draft law on introducing amendments to Chapters I, III and XIII of this Constitution on one and the same issue is possible only to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine of the next convocation.

Now I need the "constitution" quotes

[Neverna]

Article 73

Issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum.

Will the Russians allow those living in 'disputed' territories to vote?

[helge]

Now I need the "constitution" quotes

Until then, I'll use this in my case against Molle:

As discussed elsewhere, conducting elections under the current conditions of war in Ukraine can undermine democratic principles and, therefore, is unconstitutional.

[helge]

And:

I need a ciggie

While the Constitution cannot be amended during martial law (Art. 157(2)), statutory law can. If the electoral legislation is amended to allow wartime elections, it would be a valid law of the land until the Constitutional Court of Ukraine declares it unconstitutional (presumption of constitutionality). Therefore I would not rule out such a scenario with legislative enactment if international pressure increases. However, under extreme conditions of war, can free and fair elections be held and can the expression of will be free as required by Art. 71 of the Constitution?

[helge]

Article 73

Issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum.

Will the Russians allow those living in 'disputed' territories to vote?

They voted already

Didn't you know ?


Do Trump ?

[helge]

Confession time:

Seems that I for years have confused 'amendment' with....'addition'



Radio silence until further provocation

[bsnub]

Wants Lebenraum-Check

Ethnic cleansing- check

Operates apartheid - check

Kills civilians en masse- check

Yalking about you hihgness pootin again. Keep swallowing...

Helga...