Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

I thought I would post this video up as it is relevant to recent events. It is a month old, but it shows how dynamic the training the 10,000 Ukrainians are getting in the UK.

[HermantheGerman]

The Future of Eurasia

I guess we all know why Modi and Xi are grinning

[hallelujah]

I thought I would post this video up as it is relevant to recent events. It is a month old, but it shows how dynamic the training the 10,000 Ukrainians are getting in the UK.

A matter of time before beans on toast becomes the national dish of Ukraine.

[bsnub]

A matter of time before beans on toast becomes the national dish of Ukraine.

I am not so sure of that happening, but I think the Ukrainians will not soon forget the training they got in the UK, which will undoubtably prolong and save many lives.

[sabang]

The women will probably get ugly too.

[bsnub]

The women will probably get ugly too.

Not as ugly as the pending Russian retreat from Ukraine. We should be reminded that the US lend-lease program that saved Russia and the UK in the second world war is about to kick in for Ukraine. It is important to mention that this is completely separate from the aid the US has provided to date.

Putin is having his ass handed to him on a plate.



The game is up.

Morons like Iceman, sabang, skiddy, and ohdoh are largely absent from this thread after being utterly humiliated.

[Shutree]

The women will probably get ugly too.

Is that all that's left in the debate?
A bit disappointed, frankly.

[kingwilly]

Is that all that's left in the debate?
A bit disappointed, frankly.

I'm not. This has been Sabang’s lane for quite some time.

[dirk diggler]

UN Security Council Holds Meeting on Russia and Ukraine I LIVE | The United Nations Security Council is reconvening to discuss Russia?s ongoing invasion of Ukraine. Watch live. | By NowThis

Live now

[Troy]

The protests in Russia following the announcement of drafting is a bad sign for Putin. It's clear the people don't want to be involved in his little war, which means defeat is getting to be ever more likely.

It looks like he is trying to draft in kids despite saying that it is only reservists.

How long before he's toppled? One more big defeat on the battlefield would do it IMO.

[harrybarracuda]

UN Security Council Holds Meeting on Russia and Ukraine I LIVE | The United Nations Security Council is reconvening to discuss Russia?s ongoing invasion of Ukraine. Watch live. | By NowThis

Live now

Putin has ordered Lavrov to flounce. More fucking embarrassment.

[Backspin]

People on this page thought that Russia had deployed its military potential at the start of the war.

According to anti Russia Wikipedia, the total actual Russian forces that entered Ukraine since February was 59,000. Order of battle for the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

The rest was Donbas militia, PMC Wagner and Chechen units.

So now the Russian military is actually going to enter the conflict for the first time. And the western media is couching this as general mobilization

[David48atTD]

So now the Russian military is actually going to enter the conflict for the first time.

The facts, clearly on display, retort your premise.

[Mandaloopy]

[Joe 90]

^....

[bsnub]

So now the Russian military is actually going to enter the conflict for the first time.

You have been made a fool of since this war started. You claimed that the Russians completely destroyed the Ukrainian air force in the first three days of the war, yet they somehow managed 41 air strikes yesterday. Furthermore, you have posted nothing but lies and falsehoods in this thread.

Your final humiliation is coming.

[bsnub]

KHERSON/ 1250 UTC 22 SEP/ On 22 SEP, Ukrainian Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD) missions continued, with the destruction of 15 additional Russian air defense complexes. These SEAD missions have allowed UKR to double the number of close air sorties to 41 missions.

[David48atTD]

From the attachment ... "interdicting/interdicted", a term I've not heard before

North American term ... "prohibit or forbid (something)."

[bsnub]

"interdicting/interdicted", a term I've not heard before

intercept and prevent the movement of (a prohibited commodity or person).
"the police established roadblocks throughout the country for interdicting drugs"

Common US military/law enforcement terminology in the US.

[harrybarracuda]

From the attachment ... "interdicting/interdicted", a term I've not heard before

North American term ... "prohibit or forbid (something)."

Not quite the standard dictionary definition.

• MILITARY
  the action of impeding an enemy force, especially by bombing lines of communication or supply.
  "battlefield air interdiction"

[sabang]

by David Stockman Posted onSeptember 22, 2022


What in the hell were those bloody-minded Washington/NATO neocons thinking? At any time in the last nine months they could have had a diplomatic settlement with Russia that would have:

• Avoided/ended the war in Ukraine, thereby saving tens of thousands of Ukrainian lives and hundreds of billion of economic cost and destruction;
• Allowed the Russian speaking population of the Donbas a substantial degree of self-governance and autonomy from the hostile government in Kiev;
• Permitted the historic Russian territory of Crimea to remain under Russian control per the wishes of the overwhelming share of its Russian-speaking population;
• Kept NATO out of Ukraine and its missiles away from Russia’s doorstep;
• Removed NATO missile bases from the the old Warsaw Pact countries, where NATO had expanded in breach of Washington’s solemn promise made at the time of the German reunification to not extend NATO "one inch to the east" .

Would this have furthered the national security of the US and Europe, permitted Europe’s then flourishing peaceful commerce with Russia to continue and avoided the current global plague of soaring energy and food prices caused by the Sanctions War?

Yes, it would have. In spades!

So the question recurs. What alternative path did Washington/NATO envision and how could the likely consequences have improved upon either the above summarized settlement, which has been possible all along or, far worse still, the disastrous end game which is now unfolding?

The fact is, after Putin’s speech of yesterday the phrase "disastrous end game" is barely adequate to describe the scenario ahead. That’s because it signaled that the relative restraint of Russia’s "Special Military Operation" (SMO) is now over, and what lies ahead is full scale political and military warfare that can only end in calamity for Ukraine, NATO and indeed the world:

The heart of the matter is that Putin is now :

• Mobilizing Russia’s entire GDP, which is at least 15X greater than what’s left of Ukraine’s;
• Mustering 300,000 fresh reserves or double the number of Russian forces now deployed in the SMO;
• Abandoning the policy of not attacking Ukraine’s civilian electric power grid and railroad system, which has been crucial to Ukraine’s survival to date and the West’s massive supply of weapons across the western border and through the interior rail network;
• Preparing to annex the two breakaway Donbas republics in the east and the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions in the south after hurriedly called referendums, which will transform the war into an explicit NATO-enabled attack on Russia proper.

To be sure, Kiev and Washington are screaming loudly that these referendums are "shams", and it’s probably the case that the ballot counting will be no better than what occurred in the state of Georgia in 2020.

But the fact is, these regions are populated by Russian-speakers who have no love for or loyalty to the anti-Russian government in Kiev; who have already lined-up for Russian citizenship in large numbers; and who, in any case, fear the retribution of the Ukrainian military and secret service far more than they fear the Russians.

Stated differently, the populations of the Donetsk (DPR) and the Luhansk People’s Republics (LPR) and those of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions are not begging to be "liberated" by Ukrainian armies, which are every bit as brutal and vindictive as the Russian military has been alleged to be, and surely don’t give a whit about Washington/NATO’s hypocritical malarkey about the rule of law and the sanctity of borders.

In fact, the overwhelming share of the populations (75-90%) of these regions have voted for the pro-Russian candidate in every presidential election held in the Ukraine since the Soviet Union’s mailed fist was lifted from their governance in 1991.

That is to say, they have implicitly voted for partition of a country that never existed until it was nailed together by the tyrannical rule of Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev after 1922. So doing, they effected an arbitrary rearrangement of borders that plopped what had been "New Russia" for upwards of 200 years into the commie designed Soviet Socialist Republic of Ukraine for no better reason than it suited their whims and convenience of rule.

But now, within a matter of weeks, Ukraine’s borders will be restored to the pre-WWI status quo ante. Whether fair and square or not, the vote will be overwhelmingly in favor of separation and upon the request of the peoples of "Novorussiya", Putin has indicated that these regions will once again become formal Russian territories.

What that means, in turn, of course, is that NATO’s war in support of the Kiev regime will become an explicit war on the territory of Russia. And that surely portends a bloody and disastrous end game because the only way it does not end up in an armistice after untold more deaths and destruction, followed by secession of the new "Russian" territories , anyway, is if Ukraine wins the war.

That’s not going to happen. Not in a blue moon.

Once Moscow takes the gloves off and savages Ukraine’s electric power grid and railway system it will be all over except the shouting. The massive flow of western armaments, which has kept Kiev in the game to date, will be drastically curtailed; and the civilian population in the Kiev-controlled areas will be left high and dry, preparing to shiver in the dark as the severe Ukrainian winter approaches.

Nor does the alleged surprise victory of Ukrainian forces in the Kharkiv area in recent weeks change the scenario. What that actually accomplished was the sacrifice of thousands of Ukrainian troops in the apparent faint attack on Kherson in the south in order to regain a few thousand square miles of lightly populated open steppe around Kharkiv.

Even then, the alleged hastily retreating Russian army was not that at all. The area had been mostly occupied and defended by the lightly trained volunteers of the Republic of Luhansk, not the trained professionals of the Russian armed forces.

Now that the Ukrainian army has driven out the Luhansk volunteers and occupied the open steppe lands, it remains for Russian dominance of the air and artillery war to encircle the alleged victors and pulverize them from the air and via long-range artillery that is even now being brought into position.

That is to say, in a few weeks the Ukrainian "victory "will disappear from the MSM, just as have so many other alleged setbacks to the Russian cause.

Instead, the news will be about the brutality of the Russian attacks on Ukraine’s energy and transport infrastructure; the roadblocks it will put in front of what has been the demolition derby of US/NATO supplied weaponry to the battle front; and the fact that without massive new aid from Washington beyond the $50 billion already authorized, civilian life in the Kiev-controlled portions of the country will be on the verge of collapse and the regime in Kiev will be on virtual life-support from Washington.

In short, the end game in lieu of the diplomatic settlement which could have been had long ago will be either a more unfavorable partition of Ukraine, leaving Kiev and the western regions as a bankrupt landlocked rump state and ward of the west, or an escalation that involves direct military engagement by NATO and leaves the world teetering on the edge of nuclear war.

So much for using Ukraine as cannon fodder to drastically "weaken Russia" and to force the demonized Vlad Putin from power. To the contrary, by the time Europe’s cold and dark winter is underway, it will be European governments, which slavishly did Washington’s bidding, that will be falling like dominoes.

More importantly, it will also be the new Republican majority on Capitol Hill asking our opening question of Biden’s infinitely foolish national security team: Indeed, what in the hell were you thinking?!
David Stockman was a two-term Congressman from Michigan. He was also the Director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan. After leaving the White House, Stockman had a 20-year career on Wall Street. He’s the author of three books, The Triumph of Politics: Why the Reagan Revolution Failed, The Great Deformation: The Corruption of Capitalism in America and TRUMPED! A Nation on the Brink of Ruin… And How to Bring It Back. He also is founder of David Stockman’s Contra Corner and David Stockman’s Bubble Finance Trader.

https://original.antiwar.com/david_s...gton-thinking/


Whatever those idiots were thinking, it clearly did not take into account the interests of the Ukrainian people, or the economic well being of their European so called allies. I think it just comes down to plain, last century Russophobia combined with an Imperialist arrogance and overreach that is equally defunct. But using Others as cannon fodder.

[harrybarracuda]

Here we go again, blame the Americans for Putin invading a sovereign country.

You're a bit of thicko really.

[sabang]

I'll be sure to tell David Stockman- although his theme is actually "blame Washington for a war that could easily have been avoided".

Considering it is our own citizens that are footing the bill for most of this debacle, I'm surprised you are so blase'.

[bsnub]

Oh, more utter horseshit from the Russian shill. This repetitive trash needs its own thread in the Dog house.

[sabang]

Read Stockman's article again, and weep. UKR is about to reap a whirlwind.