Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

Soldiers complaining. Another Epic victory!

I sense butt hurt. Your gas tank is on empty, clearly. It is interesting that you comment on the videos I post without watching them. Pretty laughable.

[sabang]

Diddums snubby. Look out for the next Epic Ukrainian victory ✌ tomorrow.

[sabang]

by Craig Murray Posted onJune 10, 2022

I was in Turkey to try to further peace talks, as an experienced diplomat with good contacts there, and as a peace activist. I was not there as a journalist and much of what I discussed was with the understanding of confidence. It will be probably be some years before I judge it reasonable and fair to reveal all that I know. But I can give some outline.

Turkey continues to be the center of diplomatic activity on resolving the Ukraine war. It is therefore particularly revealing, and a sign of Western priorities, that I did not come across a single western journalist there trying to follow and cover the diplomatic process. There are hundreds of Western journalists in Ukraine, effectively embedded with the Ukrainian authorities, producing war porn. There appear to be none seriously covering attempts to make peace.

There was a sea change two weeks ago when Ukraine shifted to a public stance that it would cede no territory at all in a peace deal. On 21 May, Zelensky’s office stated that “The war must end with the complete restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty.” Previously while they had been emphatic that no territory in “the East” would be ceded, there had been studied ambiguity about whether that referred to Donbass alone or also the Crimea.

The new Ukrainian stance, that there will be no peace deal without recovering the Crimea, has ended for now any hopes of an early ceasefire. It appears to be a militarily unachievable objective – I cannot think of any scenario in which Russia de facto loses Crimea, without the serious possibility of worldwide nuclear war.

This blow to the peace process was a setback in Ankara, and I should say that every source I spoke with believed the Ukrainians were acting on instructions conveyed from Washington to Zelensky by Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who openly stated he wanted the war to wear down Russian defense capabilities.

A long war in Ukraine is of course massively in the interest of the US military industrial complex, whose dripping roasts in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria have gone rather off the heat. It also forwards the strategic objective of severely damaging the Russian economy, although much of that damage is mutual. Why we live in a world where the goal of nations is to damage the lives of inhabitants of other nations is a question which continues to puzzle me.

Turkey has for now turned towards the more limited goal of ensuring that grain supplies can be shipped out from the Black Sea through the Bosphorus. This is essential for developing nations and essential for world food supplies, which were already under pressure before this war began. Turkey is offering to clear sea lanes of mines and to police the ships carrying grain from the port of Odessa, which is still under Ukrainian control. Russia has agreed to the deal.

Ukraine is objecting to this plan to export its own wheat, because it objects to the removal of the mines, which I should be clear were put down in the sea lanes by Ukraine to prevent amphibious attack on Odessa. There is monumental hypocrisy by the West on this, blaming Russia for preventing the export of the grain while it is actually blocked in by Ukraine’s own mines, which they currently refuse to allow Turkey to remove.

On 19 May this was the headline of a UN press release:

Lack of Grain Exports Driving Global Hunger to Famine Levels, as War in Ukraine Continues, Speakers Warn Security Council

As it states, Ukraine and Russia together account for one third of world grain exports and two thirds of world sunflower oil exports. Many of those who die from this war are likely to do so in developing countries, from hunger. The decision of the EU and US to target Russian and Belarussian agricultural exports for sanctions displays an extraordinary callousness towards the very poorest human beings on the globe, who cannot afford rising food prices.

Well, the headline here is that the USA and EU are pushing Ukraine to block any food deal, based on a number of objections including the reduction in the security of Odessa and the claim that Russia will sell looted Ukrainian grain. The view in both Ankara and the developing world is that the big picture, of millions facing starvation, is being lost.

The experience has made me so cynical that I am left wondering if the interests of the powerful agricultural lobbies in both the EU and USA are influencing policy. High world food prices benefit some powerful interests.

I blame Putin for starting a war that does nothing to redress Russian long term security concerns. But the truth is that politicians in the West are equally keen on this war. Boris Johnson yesterday was blatantly promoting it for his own survival. Anybody who makes any effort to stop the killing – Presidents Macron and Erdogan in particular – are immediately and universally denounced by the “liberal” media.

Yet what is the end result that the liberal warmongers wish to achieve? When we reach the stage that Henry Kissinger is a comparative voice of sanity, the political situation is indeed dire.
Craig Murray is an author, broadcaster, human rights activist, and former diplomat. He was British Ambassador to Uzbekistan from August 2002 to October 2004 and Rector of the University of Dundee from 2007 to 2010. The article is reprinted with permission from his website.

https://original.antiwar.com/Craig_M...g-ukraine-war/

[harrybarracuda]

Craig Murray is an obsequious Putin brown-noser. He was British Ambassador to Uzbekistan from August 2002 to October 2004 until he was paid off for being an adulterous drunk and not being very good at his job. He has done prison time for trying to fix a trial in Scotland. He's a wanker and so is anyone who uses his drivel to try and support their feeble argument.

FTFY.

[bsnub]

Oh look, Sabang posted up another shit article from a discredited bozo.

[sabang]

He was in Ankara as an ex-senior Diplomat (HM Ambassador) with good contacts there. Which obviously gives you a great deal of expertise to comment from mums basement in Seattle (or wherever). Good article, and it is very obvious that warmonger America is trying to prolong and exacerbate yet another war. Merchants of Suffering.

[pickel]

Good article, and it is very obvious that warmonger America is trying to prolong and exacerbate yet another war. Merchants of Suffering.

America could stop giving weapons today and Ukraine would still be fighting. It would turn into an insurgency, but they would still be fighting. It would go on for years and wouldnt stop until Russia left. Same as Afghanistan with Russia and America. But, let's face it, you really don't give a fuck about Ukrainians and it never seems to dawn on you that the suffering would stop if Putin went home. You're a fucking hypocrite of the highest order.

[bsnub]

warmonger America

You put the "S" stupid. This is Putin's war 100%.

[sabang]

The parts of 'Ukraine' Russia has taken are strongly pro-Russian- or if you prefer, separatist. It is quite likely that Kherson and Zapo will set up local militia, just like the Donetsk and Luhansk peoples armies- which have been at war since 2015 with Ukraine. Currently they are lining up in their thousands to organise their Russian internal passports. Soon enough, there will be a Referendum. Kissinger (hardly a Peacemonger!) is entirely right- Ukraine is gonna 'lose' some territory. America just wants to prolong and exacerbate this war and it's human suffering for it's own selfish reasons- and is working to prevent credible peace talks. Using human beings as cannon fodder imo.

[pickel]

The parts of 'Ukraine' Russia has taken are strongly pro-Russian- or if you prefer, separatist.

Put down the propaganda pipe. Even Russian state tv pundits now admit the backbone of Ukrainian Forces fighting in Donbas are Russians from Donbas.

[pickel]

These are Russian speakers in Mariupol the day before the invasion. Do they look like they want to be liberated? Note the beautiful building in the background before it was liberated.

[sabang]

Happy for it to be put to the Democratic test as I have repeatedly said- Referendum. But we all know the outcome- albeit not as overwhelming as Crimea. A just Peace accord might well include some population swaps- some folk move west, some east.

[pickel]

Happy for it to be put to the Democratic test as I have repeatedly said- Referendum. But we all know the outcome- albeit it not as overwhelming as Crimea.

Will that be after Russia runs everybody through filtration camps? And refuses the ones they've forcibly exiled the right to return? You really are one gullible idiot.

[sabang]

Any monkey can wave a flag- but this one can read maps too. It speaks for itself. I'm afraid your wounded Imperial hubris and vanity does not change the facts and developments on the ground. Russia is rewriting the map, and unless you are willing to declare war on them you can only bitch n moan, and your warmongers send more young men needlessly to their death. It has become obvious that the US is quite willing to throw Europe under the bus in pursuit of it's Russophobic agenda- when will Europe wake up to this I wonder?

[pickel]

warmongers send more young men needlessly to their death.

When you say that, does Putin even enter your mind? Why are you so surprised by citizens of a sovereign nation fighting back against their invaders? Would you run and hide if it happened to your country? Nah, we already know what you would do. You'd be the first one on the traitor bus.

[harrybarracuda]

Nah, we already know what you would do. You'd be the first one on the traitor bus.

Oh course he fucking would. He's that sort of slimeball.

[bsnub]

Currently they are lining up in their thousands to organise their Russian internal passports.

You'd be the first one on the traitor bus.

Of that there is no doubt.

[sabang]

Well look on and bitch and moan, losers. Assad is President of Syria, Chavistas hold power comfortably in Venezuela, the US had it's sorry ass kicked out of Afghanistan, Libya is a godawful mess, and now "Ukraine" (snigga) is losing a fair chunk of it's territory. BooHoo. Name me one US intervention in the current century that has not caused anything but catastrophe, and human tragedy on an Epic scale. And to boot, Lost.

And then you just wanna bully the rest of the World for turning toward China.

[david44]

Name me one US intervention in the current century that has not caused anything but catastrophe

US with other allies has suported inter alia

1 N Ireland peace process while no means ideal is better than the Troubles, if you were there on any side Orange Republican, British Army UDA you would know this

2 Relatively peaceful transition from sanctions to democracy in RSA

3 Democratic Serbia trial of war criminals

4 Democratic Croat/Bosnia coalation, a N macedonian and Monetnegran state

5 Peace in Sanjak, cease fires in Mitrovic with Kushner's help

6 Gaddafi gone

7 Palestine, Egypt , Israel and Pakistan kept afloat with US taxpayers and veteran's hard earned money, Korea and all Europe defended on the cheap so keenok Euros can party.

8 Armenia almost saved, the Stans some of which had help Kyrgyz esp

9 Iranian and North Korean ambitions curtailed

10 Backroom diplomacy in Gulf re Qatari UAE /KSA tiff

If you have visited the refugee camps and war zones in addition to weaponry and good offices of Oxfam Cafod, MSF and Red Cross/Crescent you will see the.
sacks and boxes of US gifts food plus of course intel to trusted partners.

I have never ever seen a pack with gift of the people of , China they prefer the debt trap just look at starving Sri Lanka

I could go on, of course US makes errors and has its own agenda and national interests.

Europups never repaid the Massive Marshall plan and could never repay blood shed by in addition the free French Czechs Poles , Irish volunteers and of young Americans Brits Anzacs Canadians who crawled up the cliffs and beaches of Normandy so we didn't end up under Germany hegemony or Russian communism.

As Liz Cheney aptly remarked re January sixth insurrection, Putin will be gone but the stain of dishonour of the fellow travellers lies will live on for ever. You may be a great Troll or one of those paid shills, if not take a long hard look in the mirror. Seems tragic that an educated articulate person can not see the light.

[Backspin]

Shots fired

Nicaragua authorises deployment of Russian military forces | Military News | Al Jazeera

Nicaragua authorises deployment of Russian military forces

Russia says the measure is ‘routine,’ and the troops will be in Nicaragua for purposes of training, law enforcement or emergency response.

[pickel]

^
Did you read this part too?

Nicaragua also said it will allow the presence of “forces naval and air vessels” of Venezuela, Honduras, Guatemala, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Mexico, El Salvador and the United States.

[panama hat]

You're a fucking hypocrite of the highest order.

Why are you so surprised by citizens of a sovereign nation fighting back against their invaders? Would you run and hide if it happened to your country?

He would whine about being a Brit and not therefore not involved.

Did you read this part too?

Backspit tries so hard to be 'informed' yet is shown to be sabang's dumber relative each time . . . and that's coming from a very low relations bar

[bsnub]

[OhOh]

Even Russian state tv pundit

Links would confirm your allegation.

Do they look like they want to be liberated?

Your photo indicates what, 100, 200, 300 people in the square, and two flags. Hardly a majority.

[OhOh]

Britons sentenced to death after ‘show trial’ in Russian-occupied Ukraine

Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner were captured while fighting in Ukrainian army

"A court .... convicted 28-year-old Aiden Aslin, from Newark, 48-year-old Shaun Pinner, from Watford, and Saaudun Brahim on charges of “terrorism”

Both Britons have said they were serving in the Ukrainian marines, making them active-duty soldiers who should be protected by the Geneva conventions on prisoners of war. However, Russian state media has portrayed them as mercenaries, and the court has convicted them on the charge of “being a mercenary”.

“I utterly condemn the sentencing of Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner .... in eastern Ukraine,” said the UK foreign secretary, Liz Truss. “They are prisoners of war. This is a sham judgment with absolutely no legitimacy … my thoughts are with the families. We continue to do everything we can to support them.”

Britons sentenced to death after ‘show trial’ in Russian-occupied Ukraine | Ukraine | The Guardian

It appears the current UK Foreign Minister considers the two UK citizens as "prisoners of war". Has the UK government issued a statement that it is at war with Russia? Not that I am aware of.

UK LAW ON FIGHTING FOR FOREIGN STATES

"Speaking to the BBC, UK Foreign Secretary Elizabeth Truss said “people can make their own decisions” but she “supported” those wanting to fight for Ukraine. However, ex-Attorney General Dominic Grieve criticised Truss, stating it was illegal under the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 (“FEA 1870”).

The FEA 1870 prohibits UK nationals from enlisting in the military or navy of any foreign state at war with a “friendly state”. A friendly state is defined as any state not at war with the United Kingdom. The FEA 1870 also prohibits a person inducing another to enlist or otherwise aiding and abetting enlistment. The penalty for committing an offence under the act is a fine and imprisonment of up to two years.

Section 15 of the FEA 1870 does permit the granting of a “license” for UK nationals to fight for foreign states, either by “proclamation” or an “order in council”. Therefore, the UK government could theoretically grant a general license allowing UK nationals to fight for Ukraine’s armed forces. Failing such a license, UK nationals would potentially face prosecution on returning from Ukraine."

Foreign Fighters In Ukraine: Is It Legal? — Human Rights Pulse

It appears that it is illegal for a UK citizen to fight a war on the behalf of another country, without a "licence", issued I presume by the UK Foreign Ministry.

The UK Foreign Ministry “supported” those wanting to fight for Ukraine", presumably without a required licence, issued by herself. Although her, "thoughts are with the families". "We continue to do everything we can to support them."

Mercenaries

A “mercenary” is a person who takes a direct part in hostilities motivated essentially by the desire for private gain. A captured mercenary is not a prisoner of war.

Article 47 of Additional Protocol I spells out six cumulative conditions for a person to be a mercenary. The person must:

1. be specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
2. take a direct part in the hostilities;
3. be motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and to be promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
4. not be a national of a Party to the conflict or a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
5. not be a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
6. not have been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

https://casebook.icrc.org/glossary/mercenaries

Which the two mercenaries appear to meet.

The Donetsk People's Republic court has found them, according to their laws, guilty and sentenced them to death by firing squad.