Ukraine war mega thread

[pickel]

"Do you really believe that NaGaStan MSM would be honest when telling you their military strategy?"

The "NaGaStan" military isn't dumb enough to tell the media their invasion strategy, unless they want to dupe the enemy.

[HermantheGerman]

Just because you cant trust some one, does it mean that you should not take heed of warnings and act accordingly?

Sorry, but that make no sense to me. I guess PH gave the best answer for that

Of course, one must always bow to tyrants . . . or bend over, which is where the Greeks come into it

Cant wait for the second part. LOL

The problem is you are in a worse shape then I thought and we can't continue with part II. You will have to repeat class because you did not pay attention. Open up your book and go to 1975 Helsinki Accords. Read the whole thing!!!

The Helsinki Final Act set forth two basic principles:
First, the sovereign equality of all European states. This includes the right to territorial integrity. Borders may only be changed by peaceful means and in agreement with all sides. There are no privileged first-class states and subordinated second-class states of a limited sovereignty.
Secondly, the refraining from the use of force or threat with force. Force is to be prohibited as a means in European politics; no country shall be prevented in the full exercise of its sovereign rights through the use of force or the threat with force. This includes the right of every state to choose its alliances freely. Two other cornerstones of the Helsinki Final Act are the respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, and cooperation in the fields of economics, science, environment, culture and humanitarian issues. These commitments, too, remain highly relevant as part of a European peace accord.
Third, Inviolability of frontiers
Fourth, Territorial integrity of States

https://www.cvce.eu/content/publicat...ishable_en.pdf

Now your homework will be to find out how many of these agreements has the Kremlin broken already. Maybe we can then continue with part II.

Here is a little bonus for you. This was written before the Ukraine war and before the War Criminal made his lunatic statements.

January 10, 2022 As the US and NATO allies negotiate with Russia this week, they need to accept a sobering reality: Vladimir Putin is determined to rebuild the Russian empire.



Putin is Determined to Rebuild Russian Empire | CEPA

Maybe that Burns clown should have warned us about the War Criminal instead of telling us to hide in the corner. Reminds me of the idiots that trusted Mr. Schicklgruber

[OhOh]

Biden’s reality check in Europe

Posted on March 26, 2022 by M. K. BHADRAKUMAR

"The takeaway from the US President Joe Biden’s European tour on March 25-26 is measly. Dissenting voices are rising in Europe as western sanctions against Russia start backfiring with price hikes and shortages of fuel and electricity. And this is only the beginning, as Moscow is yet to announce any retaliatory measures as such. The unkindest cut of it all is that the Russian Defence Ministry chose Biden’s trip as the perfect backdrop to frame the true proportions of success of its special operation in Ukraine. The US and NATO’s credibility is perilously close to being irreparably damaged, as the Russian juggernaut rolls across Ukraine with the twin objectives of ‘demilitarisation’ and ‘denazification’ in its sights.

The Russian General Staff disclosed on Friday that the hyped up Ukrainian Armed Forces, trained by the NATO and the US, have sustained crippling losses: Ukrainian air force and air defence is almost completely destroyed, while the country’s Navy no longer exists and about 11.5% of the entire military personnel have been put out of action. (Ukraine doesn’t have organised reserves.)

According to the Russian General Staff’s deputy head Colonel General Sergey Rudskoy, Ukraine has lost much of its combat vehicles (tanks, armoured vehicles, etc.), one-third of its multiple launch rocket systems, and well over three-fourths of its missile air defence systems and Tochka-U tactical missile systems.
Sixteen main military airfields in Ukraine have been put out of action, 39 storage bases and arsenals destroyed (which contained up to 70% of all stocks of military equipment, materiel and fuel, and more than 1 million 54000 tons of ammunition.)
Interestingly, following the intense high-precision strikes on the bases and training camps, foreign mercenaries are leaving Ukraine. During the past week, 285 mercenaries escaped into Poland, Hungary and Romania. Russian forces are systematically destroying the Western shipment of weapons.
Most important, the mission to liberate Donbass is about to be accomplished. Simply put, the main objectives of the first phase of the operation have been achieved.

Apart from Kiev, Russian troops have blocked the northern and eastern cities of Chernigov, Sumy, Kharkov and Nikolaev, while in the south, Kherson and most of Zaporozhye region are under full control — the intention being to not only to shackle Ukrainian forces but to prevent their grouping in Donbass region. (See my article Dissecting Ukraine imbroglio, Tribune, March 21, 2022)

“We did not plan to storm these cities from the start, in order to prevent destruction and minimise losses among personnel and civilians,” Rudskoy said. But, he added, such an option is not ruled out either in the period ahead.

It stands to reason that Washington and European capitals are well aware that the Russian operation is proceeding as scheduled and there is no stopping it. Thus, the NATO’s extraordinary summit on March 24 confirmed that the alliance is unwilling to get into a military confrontation with the Russian Army.
Instead, the summit decided to strengthen the defence of its own territories! Four additional multinational NATO combat groups of 40,000 troops will be deployed in Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia on a permanent basis. Poland’s proposal to deploy NATO military units in Ukraine was outright rejected.

However, Poland has certain other plans, namely, to deploy contingents to the western regions of Ukraine to support the ‘fraternal Ukrainian people” with the unspoken agenda of reclaiming control over the historically disputed territories in the those regions. What Faustian deal has been struck in Warsaw on March 25 between Biden and his Polish counterpart Duda remains unclear. Clearly, vultures are circling Ukraine’s skies. (See my blog Biden wings his way to the borderlands of Ukraine, March 24, 2022)

Indeed, if Poland makes a bid for Ukrainian territory (with Biden’s tacit support), would Belarus be far behind to take control of the regions of Polesie and Volyn in Ukraine? Possibly not. Suffice to say, in the period since the CIA-backed coup in Kiev in 2014 when the US moved into the driving seat, Ukraine has lost its sovereignty and is now perilously close to vanishing altogether from Europe’s map!
Washington — Biden personally, having been the Obama administration’s point person in Kiev in 2014 — should carry this heavy cross in history books.

As for European leaders, they find themselves in a surreal world, out of touch with the stunning realities of a new world order. Eighty-year old Biden with limited grasp of the torrential flow of events, made an astounding proposal in his press conference in Brussels on Thursday that Ukraine should replace Russia in the G20!
But Biden has a soulmate in the European Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen whose latest threat is that Russian oil and gas companies “will not be allowed to demand payment for fuel in rubles.” She is blissfully unaware that the EU has no more effective means to pressure Russian companies!

Russian President Vladimir Putin caught the western leaders huddled in Brussels by surprise with his announcement that Russia will promptly start charging “unfriendly” countries in rubles for gas supplies. There are over 45 unfriendly countries on the list — the US and EU members plus the UK, Australia, Canada, Singapore, Montenegro and Switzerland. (See the RT’s explainer What buying gas in rubles means for Russia and the West.)

Effectively, Moscow is on the one hand strengthening the weakened ruble, while on the other hand, messaging that it is pioneering a new wave internationally to bypass the dollar as commodity currency.

Yet, Moscow is also continuing to routinely supply Russian gas for transit to Europe through Ukraine to meet the requests of European consumers (109.5 mln cubic meters as of March 26!) The point is, despite rhetoric and grandstanding, Europe recently increased its gas purchases from Russia significantly against the backdrop of astronomically high spot prices!

The European Council meet at Brussels on March 25 with Biden in attendance failed to adopt any concrete measures to address the energy price growth, and could not come up with a unified approach to Russia’s decision to receive payments for its gas only in rubles.

Apropos the European Commission’s proposal to establish a new system of common purchase of gas to prevent outbidding, the final statement of the European Council merely says that the leaders agreed to “work together on voluntary common purchase of gas, LNG and hydrogen,” meaning that common purchases may be carried out only by those EU countries who are willing to unite. [Emphasis added.]

It is a long haul for Europe to dispense with Russian gas. Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic said yesterday: “There are gas shortages, and that is why we need to talk to Russians. Europe will move towards reducing its dependence on the Russian gas, but can this happen in the coming years? This is very difficult.”

“Europe consumes 500 billion cubic meters of gas, while America and Qatar can offer 15 billion, up to the last molecule… That is why German and Austrian politicians told me: “We cannot just destroy ourselves. If we impose sanctions on Russia in the oil and gas domain, we will destroy ourselves. It’s like shooting yourself in the foot before rushing into a fight.” This is how certain rational people in the West see it today.”

With the doomsday predictions of Russian military failure in Ukraine coming unstuck and the blowback from Russia sanctions beginning to bite, Europeans are caught in a bind.

They will be resentful as time passes."

https://www.indianpunchline.com/bide...eck-in-europe/

[David48atTD]

^ So, some Indian dude is quoting a Russian General ... and it's supposed to be believed as factual?

[nidhogg]

Last I heard, about 20% Of Russian military in Ukraine.

I am not sure that accurately reflects the situation. The Russian army has about a million men, but it is divided into "contract" soldiers and 1 year conscripts. There is also a large "reserve force".

Supposedly, the conscripts do not take part in combat missions.

There are reported to be 400,000 ish contract soldiers. So it is more like half of the Russian army's combat able troops are in Ukraine.

[sabang]

Look, the US has been overtly trying to get rid of Putin for at least 8 years now. I mean, look at all the trumped up fuss made about that loser Navalny. So I really don't see that Putin is gonna be bothered about it one iota- actually if anything, it's likely to give his domestic popularity a boost. Why bother walking it back? That just makes Biden look like a silly old fart who disobeyed his handlers.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

When you say both are equally at fault, what do you mean then?

I never said that they are all equally at fault. Simply that those in the Ukrainian side and more specifically the western side , because IMO Ukraine is being used by mercenary interests, are no angels.

Ukraine would not be defending itself, if Russia had not, and is not invading.

We can play that game all day
And Russia would not had invaded if Ukraine had not invited western interests in Russia front door.

You've reached Skiddy/Ohwoe levels of retard.

Again, when you cant attack the message , attack the messenger,
The lowest form of discourse IMO. At least you did not come back with " Oh Yea? well your mother wears army boots"

[Buckaroo Banzai]

Sorry, but that make no sense to me. I guess PH gave the best answer for that

I cant help that. I thought I made myself perfectly clear.

The problem is you are in a worse shape then I thought and we can't continue with part II. You will have to repeat class because you did not pay attention. Open up your book and go to 1975 Helsinki Accords. Read the whole thing!!!

That's the second part?
sadly it looks like I could wait.

[sabang]

"An unprovoked act of aggression".

Don't worry bucky- in coming years that statement will be accompanied by the same sneering scoff as "Saddam's WMDs".

[harrybarracuda]

I never said that they are all equally at fault. Simply that those in the Ukrainian side and more specifically the western side , because IMO Ukraine is being used by mercenary interests, are no angels.

We can play that game all day
And Russia would not had invaded if Ukraine had not invited western interests in Russia front door.



Again, when you cant attack the message , attack the messenger,
The lowest form of discourse IMO. At least you did not come back with " Oh Yea? well your mother wears army boots"

So you're another one swallowing this "having NATO neighbours is dangerous" bullshit.

No, having neighbours with a history of invading other countries is dangerous.

The reason countries want to join NATO is to protect themselves.

[bsnub]

Don't worry bucky- in coming years that statement will be accompanied by the same sneering scoff as "Saddam's WMDs".

No, it really won't there dippy.

[Cujo]

And Russia would not had invaded if Ukraine had not invited western interests in Russia front door.

What does Russia have to fear from Western interests FFS?
The 'West' has made it clear a prosperous peaceful stable Russia is in it's best interest.
The only threat Russia has from 'Western interests' is to it's expansionist ambitions.
In China we have a saying.
You, I, and God, know it's true.

[Cujo]

"An unprovoked act of aggression".

Don't worry bucky- in coming years that statement will be accompanied by the same sneering scoff as "Saddam's WMDs".

Well, um, how did Ukrain 'provoke' this act of agression?

[sabang]

Ain't got the time to write a book about it, and have said it all before anyway. Lets just say, WW1 didn't start just because a disgruntled Serbian student shot an Austrian aristocrat, did it?
Such simplistic analysis (well, propaganda) might serve it's purpose to fire up a gullible public right now, in a time of war- just like those WMDs and other lies. But how long will that last?

[Cujo]

Ain't got the time to write a book about it, and have said it all before anyway. Lets just say, WW1 didn't start just because a disgruntled Serbian student shot an Austrian aristocrat, did it?
Such simplistic analysis (well, propaganda) might serve it's purpose to fire up a gullible public right now, in a time of war- just like those WMDs and other lies. But how long will that last?

In other words 'I'm not sure but'
Well in a nutshell in your own words, in a nutshell.
Not the fucking history of the region, what did Ukraine do to 'provoke' the recent illegal invasion of their sovereign country?
You've got nothing.

[sabang]

Read John Mearsheimer, for a start. GIYF. Seriously, I get bored of repeating myself.

[harrybarracuda]

Seriously, I get bored of repeating myself.

I really wish you fucking would.

[Cujo]

Read John Mearsheimer, for a start. GIYF. Seriously, I get bored of repeating myself.

I don't know what GIYF means, but I'm not going to 'read' somebody when I asked you to explain in your own words in a nutshell what you think Ukraine did to provoke this invasion.
Waiting.

[pickel]

I mean, look at all the trumped up fuss made about that loser Navalny

Running on an anti-corruption platform in the face of being jailed and poisoned by the most corrupt leader Russia has ever had makes him a loser? But not the corrupt leader that jails and poisons him?

That's some moral compass you have there sabang.

[kingwilly]

Waiting.

Don't hold your breathe

[kingwilly]

And Russia would not had invaded if Ukraine had not invited western interests in Russia front door.

that's an apologist and lunatic statement, repeating does not make it any better.

It's the. equivalent of the playground bully claiming the fat kid looked at him funny and that's why he was forced to punch him and steal his lunch money

[sabang]

GIYF = 'Google Is Your Friend' Cujo. But if you are not willing to read, Google, or even follow links, up to you. I'm not your damn kindy teacher. If you are looking to find or apportion blame and causes, you can easily identify three critical parties- the Ukrainain government (post Maidan), +Putin regime, +'US lead Nato'. All three could have caused this war to be avoided.

Many experts & authors put it better and more authoritatively than I. Several I have linked to in this thread. 'nuff said.

[sabang]

And that's some anti-corruption campaigner you chose as your 'champion' there pickle. But there is another thread on that.

[pickel]

And that's some anti-corruption campaigner you chose as your 'champion' there pickle. But there is another thread on that.

I'm sure you're response will be Putin approved.

[kingwilly]

Nice dodge, yet again.