Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Japan signed a trade deal with the EU, they didn't have to pay 39 bill or sign up to free movement of people or have the EU making their laws, strange innit......

^ I don't believe Japan has ever been part of the EU, let alone make financial obligations.

Please desist with this irrelevance...

Originally Posted by Troy

You really are off your trolley aren't you...

We win??? What do we win? A fooking broken economy with nobody looking our way...

Hard Brexit is a lose-lose situation, which no-one in their right mind would consider as a viable option...but you to carry on with it regardless.

Nobody wins; problem is May can no longer be trusted to negotiate in the best interests of UK, she has sabotaged negotiations in favour of the EU, and I expect her to throw a cosmetically 'clarified' time sensitive same deal back at Parliament, effectively giving them a choice between no deal or choking on hers which keeps us attached indefinitely and worse off than before.

Rather than that, and as every outcome is negative for UK over the next few years, I would prefer Ref2 conditional upon a clear, politically and legally binding choice of rescinding A50, reversing Ref1 and not leaving, or a hard Brexit with no further talks. Even so, IF these are the best of crap choices, both lead to complex new sets of conditions, one that buries the democratic process not without consequences, and the other triggering A50 all over again meaning we could be stuck listening to the Belgian for another two years!

The plane always was to force a second referendum once the propaganda sank in. Helped along with the BOE financial skulduggery.

Keep on voting until you vote my way.

Originally Posted by OhOh

The plan always was to force a second referendum once the propaganda sank in. Helped along with the BOE financial skulduggery.

Keep on voting until you vote my way.

Looks that way, and also that sophisticated western leaders have much to learn from Thailand.

Originally Posted by OhOh

The plan always was to force a second referendum once the propaganda sank in. Helped along with the BOE financial skulduggery.

Do me a favour...

There was never any Brexit plan ... Not a single leading Brexiteer has come up with an alternative. Like leaving your current job because you don't like it without finding another one first.

Originally Posted by Troy

Like leaving your current job because you don't like it without finding another one first.

I did that once. Had no choice really as I was sacked for punching a shop steward. Panic sets in and I wondered if I'd find another. Looking back I think what the fcuk did I worry for? I ended up getting a job I that enjoyed and was able to retire aged 53. Every cloud has a silver lining.

great, Blair has now joined the debate to complete the fuckup

Theresa May condemns Tony Blair's new Brexit vote call
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46582705

Theresa May has attacked one of her predecessors - accusing Tony Blair of "undermining" the Brexit talks by calling for another referendum.

She called his comments an "insult to the office he once held" and said MPs could not "abdicate responsibility" to deliver Brexit by holding a new poll.

In London last week, Mr Blair said MPs might back a new vote if "none of the other options work".

In response to Mrs May, he insisted that a new referendum was democratic.

"Far from being anti-democratic it would be the opposite, as indeed many senior figures in her party from past and present have been saying," he said.

On Thursday about 10 Labour MPs met David Lidington - who is Mrs May's de facto second-in-command - to argue for another public vote.

Sources close to Mr Lidington said it was "pretty standard stuff" and he was not "planning for or advocating a second referendum".

Many senior Labour figures are deeply uneasy about endorsing another referendum.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

great, Blair has now joined the debate to complete the fuckup

Not new, he's been on the scene since soon after Ref1, only more up front over the past months and even threatening to return to UK politics. That should be novel, never seen the police lead off a former PM in cuffs.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Blair has now joined the debate to complete the fuckup

If Blair was a turkey he'd be stupid enough to vote for an early Xmas.

May’s deal, even with the expected reassurances to squeeze a vote in the house does not meet the requirements of the referendum.
Another referendum would be political suicide, wastes the two years spent Pissing about over a deal, and the cost of a plummeting pound.

The EU have stated quite clearly that the May deal is the only offer on the table and cannot be amended or renogiated. Do we really accept another two years of being rebuffed by the EU dictators?

Sorry chaps, none of these options stands any test of common sense. Put the brakes on everything now and start seriously working towards a hard no deal exit from this farce.

Pour a bowl of porridge over the EU and buttfly, with a clear message to them. Get stuffed we are better off without you lining us up to pay for your failed socialist experiment.

Bye bye EU.

Originally Posted by foobar

Originally Posted by foobar
If you're not a fan of socialist projects you must really hate free healthcare(nhs), state schools, state pension, social security, council houses, free prescriptions etc etc..?
I would love an explanation on how free healthcare(nhs), state schools, state pension, social security, council houses, free prescriptions are "the perfect recipe for collective suicide." ?

I agree with foobar. Perhaps we could ask about a "collective suicide" somebody who is in debt up to his ears due to a health problem cost that he cannot pay off (e.g. the girl now in Chiang Mai hospital), students who cannot pay their loans (just read the student debts are $1.3 trillions in US), The parents who takes mortgage on their house to send kids to a good school, a fear of zillions not having their health insurance (and the ones having, howeer, how much it burdens them?).

Why the health care is always a big pork for every POTUS? (just reading that Trump cancelling the Obamacare?)

And not to mention maternity vacation and allowance...

Originally Posted by jabir

Farage and Mogg are two of the most vocal calling for a no deal, which like it or not is also a plan, even if you attempt to justify your statement with a diversionary attack on either that plan and or the characters.

That said, it was a clusterfcuk from word go, can't see it improving under current leadership, the country doesn't need a GE just now, aside from all else both UK and EU will suffer a loss of confidence as a consequence, and UKs only slim chance at a fair shot of Brexit in line with what voters chose, ie leave, seems to be if the gods decide to 'clarify' that rotten deal to keep them at the trough another couple of years. Also unlikely, so we wait until whatever happens happens.

For me for now, Ref2 on the two extremes, watch a couple of cities burn, but hopefully leading to a conclusion of the first of many phases, that of firm resolve (v2) to leave or stay. Don't pin that to me, new poisons could be added to the pot tomorrow.

Neither Farage nor Rees-Mogg have planned beyond a Hard Brexit, not for the UK anyway, although both have no doubt got personal plans to make money from it.

It is not enough to simply say let's get out, an alternative plan that improves the economy and quality of life for everyone also needs to be made.

Where are their plans???

Originally Posted by Troy

Neither Farage nor Rees-Mogg have planned beyond a Hard Brexit, not for the UK anyway, although both have no doubt got personal plans to make money from it.

You know this for sure????

I’m sure the UK had a plan when they joined the common market all those years ago. The government never planned to join the federalisation of states who simply wanted to trade with each other. Open borders and freedom of movement was not an aspiration for them. The EU pressed on with it and no account was taken of the consequences of such idealistic ventures.
Germany and many Scandinavian countries have excellent social welfare and education systems which are largely funded by higher personal taxes and social insurance contributions. Yet no country has a plan for the infrastructure necessary to support such freedom of movement.
The EU plan seems to be a culture of freedom and flexibility, that few nations can cope with. Even the industrial and financial might of Germany was unprepared for the rapid influx of economic migrants from within, and outside the EU.

The UK gave its voters the opportunity to decide if they wanted to be a part of it. They voted to leave. Call it brave or stupid, it is no longer possible to sustain the EU aspirations in UK or elsewhere in Europe. The unintended consequences of such idealism have been swept under the carpet, with the EU leadership seemingly determined to carry on with ever more socialist equality for all.
Sorry to break the bad news to you, but not all people and countries are equal. Giving people the freedom to relocate within Europe is a fine ideal, but it also allows criminals nd terrorists the same freedoms. That unintended consequence has now led to calls for an EU wide police force, which will no doubt have primacy over the sovereign nations own police forces.
It begs the question, is that what the EU intended from the outset? Is federalisation of member states now the overarching principle for all social programmes? Has the free trade ethos of the common market that the UK joined been usurped by social engineering.
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Time to leave, and watch the bonfire of federal vanities from a distance.

Originally Posted by Switch

May’s deal, even with the expected reassurances to squeeze a vote in the house does not meet the requirements of the referendum.
Another referendum would be political suicide, wastes the two years spent Pissing about over a deal, and the cost of a plummeting pound.

The EU have stated quite clearly that the May deal is the only offer on the table and cannot be amended or renogiated. Do we really accept another two years of being rebuffed by the EU dictators?

Sorry chaps, none of these options stands any test of common sense. Put the brakes on everything now and start seriously working towards a hard no deal exit from this farce.

Pour a bowl of porridge over the EU and buttfly, with a clear message to them. Get stuffed we are better off without you lining us up to pay for your failed socialist experiment.

Bye bye EU.

Right or wrong we'll never know unless it happens. I doubt the Parliamentary wimps have the stomach for a no deal, and if it comes to that or a 'clarified' May deal they are likely to buckle and opt for terrible instead of unknown. If EU negotiators are of the same mind, it figures they would dig in and refuse to reconsider.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

You know this for sure????

Sure he does, just like his factual theory that explains how EU paramilitary resources are not really being used against EU citizens.

Originally Posted by jabir

I doubt the Parliamentary wimps have the stomach for a no deal

I see you've been quite the bullish BREXITer for the last couple of weeks.

Prior to that you spent two years clucking and 'don't know'ing.

When you've decided you really do throw yourself into the role though, eh...Jabir?

Originally Posted by jabir

Right or wrong we'll never know unless it happens. I doubt the Parliamentary wimps have the stomach for a no deal, and if it comes to that or a 'clarified' May deal they are likely to buckle and opt for terrible instead of unknown. If EU negotiators are of the same mind, it figures they would dig in and refuse to reconsider.

I think GW Bush was told the same before invading Iraq by the non-extremists,

hey I am all for you guys following through that train wreck anyhow, country will be collapsing for sure

No Deal = Maybot Exit, Right Wing Facists In

Botfly.....No Deal = Maybot Exit, Right Wing Facists In. Belgium beggars out.

FTFY

This week is going to be promising in terms of political debate and 2 face betrayals

New EU referendum would break faith with Britons, May to warn MPs
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46586673

Holding another referendum on the EU would "break faith with the British people", Theresa May will warn MPs.

Former PMs John Major and Tony Blair are among those urging a new referendum if MPs cannot agree on a way forward.

But the prime minister will argue that it would do "irreparable damage to the integrity our politics" and would "likely leave us no further forward".

Last week she called off a Commons vote on her Brexit deal, admitting it was likely to be heavily rejected.

Mr Blair said last week that while he admired Mrs May's determination to get her deal through, with so many MPs opposed to it there was "literally no point in carrying on digging".

He said after 30 months of negotiation, and with the government in "a mess", giving the final say to the people would become the "logical" outcome if every other option were to be exhausted.

But Mrs May will tell MPs on Monday: "Let us not break faith with the British people by trying to stage another referendum.

"Another vote which would do irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics, because it would say to millions who trusted in democracy, that our democracy does not deliver.

"Another vote which would likely leave us no further forward than the last.

"And another vote which would further divide our country at the very moment we should be working to unite it."

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

He said after 30 months of negotiation, and with the government in "a mess", giving the final say to the people would become the "logical" outcome if every other option were to be exhausted.

But Mrs May will tell MPs on Monday: "Let us not break faith with the British people by trying to stage another referendum.

"Another vote which would do irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics, because it would say to millions who trusted in democracy, that our democracy does not deliver.

"Another vote which would likely leave us no further forward than the last.

"And another vote which would further divide our country at the very moment we should be working to unite it."

I think May is probably living in a time warp or a black hole. Screaming about integrity, democracy and securing the delivery of the first referendum. Her so called deal undermines everything she is screaming about, by keeping theUK in the eu, completely against the wishes of the people. You can smell the hypocrisy from here, you two faced bitch.