^ Can't argue with that.
The question is, in the tit-for-tat, who tatted first?
My contention is the horde of Europeans (who happened to claim to be "Jewish"), ie the Zionists.
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^ Can't argue with that.
The question is, in the tit-for-tat, who tatted first?
My contention is the horde of Europeans (who happened to claim to be "Jewish"), ie the Zionists.
Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maanaam
More than 200 hundred fires were sparked over the past week across Israel, with the Internal Security Ministry estimating that about half were the result of arson.
Some 85,000 residents of Haifa were force to flee their homes, along with hundreds of residents in Zichron Yaakov, Atlit, Neve Tzuf (Halamish), Beit Meir, Nataf, and other towns around Israel. More than 400 homes were destroyed in Haifa, along with dozens more across the country.
Of the 37 suspects arrested during the investigation, 24 remain in custody, while 13 have been released. Among those still in custody, 18 are Israeli Arabs, two of whom have admitted to lighting fires.
Police say that they are currently investigating 233 cases of arson in connection with last week’s fires. Forty-five files have been opened on possible arsonists, while another five have been opened against individuals suspected of incitement to arson. Of those now being investigated for Facebook incitement, two are Arabs and three are Jews.
37 suspected arsonists arrested, including 18 Israeli Arabs - Defense/Security - News -
Two Minors Accused of Setting Fire to Forest in Northern Israel
The two, residents of a village in the Galilee, are accused of setting fire to dry leaves in a forest, causing a large blaze; Judge says that fire seems to have been a prank, not politically motivated.
read more: Two minors accused of setting fire to forest in northern Israel - Israel News - Haaretz.com
^ as the OP said minors all over the world can do that, myself included. So why such a hateful response from the Arab media?
You set fire to forests when you were a child? You think that's normal?Quote:
Originally Posted by wjblaney
What's normal is for kids to light a small fire, with no intention of getting into trouble and then things go horribly wrong and the wind might change or a live spark might fly up and land some distance away onto tinder, and it's out of control.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
like they say, eh?...Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTExactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Is that normally followed by one of Ents ill-informed rants, dazzling in its ignorance of almost every subject under the sun, calling for the utter extermination of those children's people? As for the question posed in the OP, posted by a German, I'll respond with another question. We all know what the Russians did in Germany in 1945 and it was atrocious. Why is it, Herman, that nobody in the whole wide world feels much sympathy for the victims?Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
If you can answer that honestly then you will know the reason for many of the members of the Arab linguistic grouping's (that one for you ENT, you shameful ignoramus) schadenfreude.
Trolling again Boob?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bIs that normally followed by one of Ents ill-informed rants, dazzling in its ignorance of almost every subject under the sunQuote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Liar! I never have.Quote:
calling for the utter extermination of those children's people?
Your perception of reality is flawed, or you live in a very limited environment.Quote:
...what the Russians did in Germany in 1945 and it was atrocious....why is it... that nobody in the whole wide world feels much sympathy for the victims?
If you compare the things that Nazi Germany did to Russia with the situation in Israel, then you are as dumb as a Islamist.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bIs that normally followed by one of Ents ill-informed rants, dazzling in its ignorance of almost every subject under the sun, calling for the utter extermination of those children's people? As for the question posed in the OP, posted by a German, I'll respond with another question. We all know what the Russians did in Germany in 1945 and it was atrocious. Why is it, Herman, that nobody in the whole wide world feels much sympathy for the victims?Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
If you can answer that honestly then you will know the reason for many of the members of the Arab linguistic grouping's (that one for you ENT, you shameful ignoramus) schadenfreude.
I compare them with hiw qhat happened in russia originally started. Have you learned nothing? Do you know who said this and why?Quote:
Originally Posted by HermantheGermanIf you compare the things that Nazi Germany did to Russia with the situation in Israel, then you are as dumb as a Islamist.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0bIs that normally followed by one of Ents ill-informed rants, dazzling in its ignorance of almost every subject under the sun, calling for the utter extermination of those children's people? As for the question posed in the OP, posted by a German, I'll respond with another question. We all know what the Russians did in Germany in 1945 and it was atrocious. Why is it, Herman, that nobody in the whole wide world feels much sympathy for the victims?Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
If you can answer that honestly then you will know the reason for many of the members of the Arab linguistic grouping's (that one for you ENT, you shameful ignoramus) schadenfreude.
Nur eines hätte unsere Bewegung stoppen können – wenn unsere Gegner ihr Prinzip verstanden hätten und vom ersten Tag an den Kern unserer neuen Bewegung mit aller Brutalität zerschlagen hätten
Not everybody is too stupid to recognise the symptoms, the same disease is recurring in Europe, America, and in Israel and, as before, small-minded bigots like and ENT allow it to happen.
Did you ever ask yourself why the Germans got sympathy, peace and forgiveness from their former enemies after what they have done ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Would the Arab linguistic group be able to do such a thing (never mind which side they would have been on) ? :rolleyes:
You were economically valuable as a workforce and a useful bulwark against the Soviets. Nothing more. To this day the first thing any European thinks about when meeting a German is what you people did. It may not be right, it may not be just, and we would certainly not mention it your face, but when the rest of us see you the first thing we see is the monster and it is clear from recent events that the monster still exists. It might have been better, for the sake of decency and civilisation, to have let Stalin have his way. The rot appears to be inherent in you.Quote:
Originally Posted by HermantheGermanDid you ever ask yourself why the Germans got sympathy, peace and forgiveness from their former enemies after what they have done ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Would the Arab linguistic group be able to do such a thing (never mind which side they would have been on) ? :rolleyes:
DrB0b.....is that really you writing this nonsense ? Do you have a Dissociative identity disorder (DID) or did someone steal your password from TD ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Fool, can't you recognise a cynical comment when you see it? neverna's link was blocked behind a "become a member to continue reading" "wall", so just a guess. An Israeli judge passes it off as a prank; would an Israeli judge do that for Palestinian kids?Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTSource?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maanaam
You then go on and post a story that shows most of the arson was committed by non-Arabs (presumably Israeli Jews).
"37 suspected arsonists arrested, including 18 Israeli Arabs".
Now, typical dimwit clutching at straws, I guess you're going to ask for proof that the non-Arab arsonists were Jews. (I've made such a preposterous antisemitic presumption!!!)
Well, I'm content to make the assumption that they were not Israeli Christians, or tourists of any religion, nor were they Nigerian scammers, nor Australian gangsters, nor Standing Rock protesters, and thus I presume that most likely they were Israeli Jews.
Occasionally I like to indulge in casuistry. Probably the result of a Catholic childhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by HermantheGermanDrB0b.....is that really you writing this nonsense ? Do you have a Dissociative identity disorder (DID) or did someone steal your password from TD ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Don't be daft!Quote:
Originally Posted by Maanaam
Of the 37 suspects arrested .....24 remain in custody, while 13 have been released.
Among those 24 still in custody, 18 are Israeli Arabs, (= 75% of those still in custody), two of whom(Arabs), have admitted to lighting fires.
That leaves 6 non-Arabs (presumably Jews or others) of the 24 suspects still in custody, which shows most of the suspects in custody are Arabs.
Nice try at twisting the facts to suit your bigoted rant, ....but no cigar. :)
It reminds me of Thailand in a way. When something bad happens, knee jerk reaction- gotta be the Red shirts, innit. Some senior government figure seems to spout that, usually by inference or indirectly, and guess what- it isn't. Yet you never see an official retraction, or apology made. So it was with the Erawan bombing (Chinese Uighur seperatists), and more recently the Hua Hin/ southern bombings (southern seperatists). Where is the official apology?
The Palestinians have a very deep attachment to their own land, a result of having farmed it and lived on it for multiple generations. It is doubtful in Palestine, that they would just vandalise the land for the sake of it- that is more the domain of the settler scum, who vandalise and burn Palestinian crops (especially olives, which have a special significance) on a regular basis- to the point it usually does not even make the western press anymore.
Of course in Israel, it might be a different story. And in occupied Palestine, look for motive- if an act of arson is committed close to an illegal settlement, it may ostensibly be an act of Palestinian revenge. What has become clear though, is that a great many of these fires have not been started by Palestinian's- in clear contradiction to the presumptive bullshit emanating from the Israeli media.
Palestinian accused of arson released by Israel
A Palestinian man who Israeli media and authorities accused of arson, amid wildfires that forced tens of thousands to flee their homes last week, has reportedly been released without charge.
“Remember Jawad Qattoush from Battir? He starred in all the newspapers in recent days – a Palestinian who lights fires,” Nir Hasson, a journalist for the Tel Aviv newspaper Haaretz, posted on Facebook on Thursday.
“So after five days in detention, interrogation by the Israel Security Agency and the prohibition of a meeting with a lawyer, he went home. He actually did light a fire, he burnt garbage on his own premises, 150 meters from his home, 1.5 kilometers from any Jewish town,” Hasson stated.
“Oh, and he also put out the fire,” Hasson added.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs...eleased-israel
With the help of Israeli forces....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
The plonker was burning "garbage" 150 mertres away from his home?
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/12/125.jpg
Tending his land
Israel’s Channel 2 had reported that on Saturday, Israeli park rangers spotted a man setting a fire at “Nahal Refaim in the Judean Hills,” a river valley straddling the boundary line between the occupied West Bank and present-day Israel.
The report claims that inspectors from Israel’s Nature and Parks Authority observed a person coming from Battir, a village west of Bethlehem in the occupied West Bank, near the boundary line with Israel. The man then began setting vegetation alight, but “thanks to the efforts of the rangers the fire was prevented from spreading.” Channel 2 adds that Israeli occupation forces followed the man back to Battir and detained him there.
Israel’s Ynet also reported that the army and police “apprehended a suspect identified by a forest ranger as setting fire to the brush northwest of the Palestinian village of Battir.”
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs...eleased-israel
:rofl: Talk about twisting the facts to suit YOUR bigoted rant! You're twisting it now to include only those still in custody, not those arrested.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTDon't be daft!Quote:
Originally Posted by Maanaam
Of the 37 suspects arrested .....24 remain in custody, while 13 have been released.
Among those 24 still in custody, 18 are Israeli Arabs, (= 75% of those still in custody), two of whom(Arabs), have admitted to lighting fires.
That leaves 6 non-Arabs (presumably Jews or others) of the 24 suspects still in custody, which shows most of the suspects in custody are Arabs.
Nice try at twisting the facts to suit your bigoted rant, ....but no cigar. :)
"37 suspected arsonists arrested, including 18 Israeli Arabs". So more Jews were arrested than Palestinians. Fact. Your fact actually as you posted it.
And read on. The very next paragraph tells it differently from the slant you would like:Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTWith the help of Israeli forces....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
The plonker was burning "garbage" 150 mertres away from his home?
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/12/125.jpg
Tending his land
Israel’s Channel 2 had reported that on Saturday, Israeli park rangers spotted a man setting a fire at “Nahal Refaim in the Judean Hills,” a river valley straddling the boundary line between the occupied West Bank and present-day Israel.
The report claims that inspectors from Israel’s Nature and Parks Authority observed a person coming from Battir, a village west of Bethlehem in the occupied West Bank, near the boundary line with Israel. The man then began setting vegetation alight, but “thanks to the efforts of the rangers the fire was prevented from spreading.” Channel 2 adds that Israeli occupation forces followed the man back to Battir and detained him there.
Israel’s Ynet also reported that the army and police “apprehended a suspect identified by a forest ranger as setting fire to the brush northwest of the Palestinian village of Battir.”
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs...eleased-israel
"But in Battir, neighbors told a very different story to Ma’an News Agency reporter Mirna al-Atrash: "
"They said that Qattoush, 43, works in Jerusalem, and his day off is Saturday, which is when he typically tends to and waters his land. That’s what Qattoush was doing last Saturday, according to one neighbor: he collected scrub and debris and burned it, and then returned home.
The video report shows a small patch of charred earth where Qattoush burned the brush.
“We were surprised when a short time later the army and police arrived and took him away,” the neighbor said.
Another neighbor explained that following the autumn olive harvest villagers typically clear their land of fallen branches, as Qattoush was doing, far from any forested area."
That they released him suggests that they actually had nothing to prosecute him with, despite him actually lighting a fire. His story stacks up.
Looks like yet another example of Israeli persecution of Palestinians: harassment designed to wear the people down, to eventually drive them from their ancestral homes.
Zionist bastards.
So which version do you prefer?
nice link, Spagetti Chops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/12/137.jpg
:)
This version, says it all:Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
“So after five days in detention, interrogation by the Israel Security Agency and the prohibition of a meeting with a lawyer, he went home. He actually did light a fire, he burnt garbage on his own premises, 150 meters from his home, 1.5 kilometers from any Jewish town,” Hasson stated.
“Oh, and he also put out the fire,” Hasson added.“
As above, plus the one I added (which you avoided). Both versions virtually the same, and both versions pointing to Israeli persecution of a Palestinian....by the facts presented.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
Wow.....:chitown:
Two Arab arsonists were captured on Tuesday while they were lighting fires next to the Atarot industrial zone in northern Jerusalem.
Border Police officers operating out of a surveillance point spotted the fires and quickly dispatched and guided units to the scene to apprehend the terrorists.
Officers sent on foot to the area saw two Arab teenagers setting tires on fire just outside of Atarot. The pair attempted to flee, but were captured after a brief chase.
The suspects, both 16-year old residents of Jerusalem, were in possession of lighters and papers for kindling.
The two were transferred to the central police station in Jerusalem for interrogation, and are expected to be brought before a judge to have their arrests extended.
More than 2,000 fires ravaged Israel last week and through till Sunday, forcing tens of thousands of Israelis to flee their homes.
Last Thursday the Internal Security Ministry estimated that at least half of the fires were the result of arson and many others were a result of the original fires spreading to other areas due to the winds.
On Sunday, Israeli police said 37 people had been arrested in connection with the fires
Kosher News
Keep up the resistance, boys, way to go! Keep nipping away at those criminal Zionist oppressors.
....and get shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maanaam
Yeah, probably. But you have to try. No use being trodden on by the jackboot of the Zionists all your life.
How did this thread end up with the pharohs canaanites phoenicians etc? although one would have to disagree with the Arabic papers slant on the fires. It is tempered with some sympathy for the Palestinian plight on the west bank, Gaza and Indeed Israel itself.
The argument is pointless regarding who was there first. The Jews are as likely to leave Israel/Palestine as are the white Australians who were late comers to Australia by about 40,000 years.
The facts are the Israelis are in violation of a number of UN resolutions and have no right to building settlements on occupied land. The Israelis have no intention of giving up occupied Arab east Jerusalem and the Arabs will not give it away in any settlement.
How many people would agree to having 100% of their land occupied and a peace negotiation where only 95% would be given back?
Until sensible people are willing to do the right thing we will still be talking about this in another 50 years and the misery and suffering will go on.
Why would Israel ever give up the West Bank?
There's about as much chance of that happening as of the Arabs giving up on their ambition of driving all Israelis into the sea.
The land that's now Israel was won through wars instigated by Arab Muslims.
Israel fought back and won. Much of the conquered territory was handed back to Egypt, the prime instigator of the 1967 war.
Does it not make sense that Israel keeps the strategically important Golan and West Bank to ensure its security?
https://teakdoor.com/data:image/jpeg;...FLNQx49ZkpL//Zhttp://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA_Graphics/M...p-june1967.jpg
Compare that map to the ones below.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/12/219.jpgThere was almost zero chance of Israel enjoying any measure of security if the 1947 UN allocated borders were adhered to by Israel, as demonstrated by the Arab instigated 1948 war, which saw Israel's borders extended to a safer demarcation line.
After that, Jordan, which initially offered sanctuary to all the 1947-8 displaced Arabs, invaded and occupied the West Bank then annexed it, (1950) against international law.
That land was then taken off Jordan by Israel in 1967, three years after Arafat the Egyptian founded the PLO, with an eye to unseat the Hashemite rule of Jordan and replace it with Fatah, his own organization, riding on the back of the myth of the exclusively Arab Palestinian.
That plan of Arafat's backfired after a civil war where thousands of Palestinian Arabs and Jordanians died in battles culminating in 1971 with Jordan expelling thousands more Palestinians along with Arafat who all ended up in Lebanon to create more trouble.
Because it is not in Israel- it is in Palestine (in fact the major part of what is left of Palestine). Thus the illegal settlers and military there are trespassers, and occupiers- and they will never be recognised as anything but by the UN, and Israel will not be recognised by most of the Arab League & Muslim world, until the situation is sorted out (ie one state or two).Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
It can, of course 'not give up' the West Bank by combining the two states, which would involve giving the Palestinians their human and legal rights via granting them Citizenship, freedom of movement etc. Seems the best way forward to me, but Israel should hold a national Referendum on the matter. Meanwhile Israeli's are prohibited from travelling to, and trading with, many world countries- and to a lesser extent, curtailed in others. They are also increasingly despised- including by an increasing amount of the diaspora jews. This is a situation that is only likely to increase, via BDS. As Israel settles and colonises Palestine more, it will turn into a standard apartheid struggle a la Sth Africa- you only need read the history of that. Interestingly, the US dragged their feet on that one too.
From yesterdays Haaretz editorial-
Expanding the settlements is a guarantee of eternal conflict and the continuation of the occupation regime with no chance of ending it. No less important is the need to oppose the bill that legalizes the outposts, which touches not just on construction in the territories but on the survival of the rule of law in the State of Israel.
The United States has traditionally tied its policy toward Israel to the latter’s readiness to conduct negotiations with the Palestinians and has seen all settlement construction as laying mines in the path of the peace process. Washington to date has served as a brake, albeit not effective enough, against the process of Israel’s diplomatic suicide.
read more: America is irrelevant to Israel's settlement policies - Opinion - Israel News | Haaretz.com
Jordan controlled the "West Bank" from 1948 - 1967...uhh...uhh...but you want to call if Pale-stein...why not Philly-stine. For twenty years it was under Jordanian control...and nobody called it Palestine because it was called the West Bank , governed by Jordan.
In the 1967 War Israeli forces overran Jordanian forces up to the River Jordan...a big ooops, eh.
The West Bank came under Israeli control.
I do agree that Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank is disheartening...but that is the nature of hardened Israeli outlook after several conflicts. Some might say that the Israelis have large cojones doing what they've done...and I would agree.
Possibly they look at how the world backpedals and pussyfoots on other territorial grabs whether it was Tibet or currently is Crimea.
Agreed they've got balls for a country of 8 million. The elected leadership assuredly wants to make sure it remains a Jewish state...same ambition as the other nations wishing to remain white-Anglo , Islamic or ethnic-Chinese et al. Go figure.
Many here have called Thailand racist. Funny that
As an outside observer that is Neutral but looks at the situation in the hope of peace for both sides, I think you are a bit selective about violations of international law. If intransigence is all that can be offered then Israelis will never be safe because there will be endless violence between the sides. The rocket attacks by Hamas are fairly unsophisticated. The loss of Israeli lives from these attacks have been few although regrettable, still far less loss of civilian lives than the Israeli response. Eventually Hamas will get more sophisticated weaponry and the loss of life will increase on both sides as the Israelis seem to have a policy of 100 of you for 1 of us. This will only continue an endless cycle of death which will give no one peace or security.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
Unfortunately I feel some posters have become so polarised in this debate that they can't see the forest for the trees. While both sides look for the moral high ground, men women and children are being killed and injured and a lot of misery is being inflicted on both sides, so I must now remove myself from this circular argument.
Easy to have such 'cojones' when you are nuclear armed, your Defence budget is subsidised by the US to the tune of $3.2bn per year (and Uncle Sam is ready to step in in your favor at any time, as has happened several times), plus you possess a modern air force well over double the size of the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
But it does not change the situation one iota- Israel is illegally, and brutally, occupying Palestine and has been doing so for fifty years now- accompanied by creeping, and entirely deliberate, colonisation. But the Palestinian's aren't going anywhere- indeed their numbers continue to grow, as does the rest of the worlds population. They just endure, suffer, remain, and breed- oh, and in many cases Resist. That will never end while the Occupation continues. Every year further delayed just makes a one state solution more inevitable. This is ironic because according to all Polls on the matter that is not what the Israeli's (or Jews) want- albeit by a decreasing majority, but they are effectively being railroaded into it by their governments policies and actions. Schmucks.
I mean, I've never thought of you as an eejut PC- surely you don't believe that 5.5mm Pali's are just gonna ship out, or be 'driven into the sea'. :rolleyes:
No I won't spend an inordinate amount of time on this debate line.
Polls mean shyte...just ask Hillary and the Democranks. Even the largest opinion poll taken includes less than 3% of the registered voters.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me again when any US forces were ever involved in the defense of Israel. Providing missile defense equipment to Israel manned by IDF personnel during the Iraq conflict was to stop Israel from taking out Saddam's missile capabilities once Israel was fired a upon.
What is England's defense for the illegal immigration of 'America', Canada, Australia or New Zealand...along with illegal bondage, suffering, death and traffiking of millions of Afrikans into the Americas ?
When will the land be returned in all cases to it's rightful inhabitants? Simply it never will.
The world keeps spinning. We keep going around in the same circle on this debate. Something will change one way...one day...with or without either of us.
One difference between the Jordanian occupation (more accurately, attempted annexation) of Palestine, and the Israeli, is that the Palestinians were full citizens of Jordan- with all of the rights and obligations that entails. Some countries recognised it as a legitimate annexation (including the UK, I think)- but most did not. Indeed, the other Arab nations were some of the most vehemently opposed! This is obviously not the case with the illegal Israel occupation- which has been going on for some 50 years now, compared to the Jordanian involvement of 10. Not one country in the world has recognised it. The Palestinians have virtually no Rights on their own land.
The other difference, worth pointing out, is that the Jordanian occupation was not accompanied by the widespread violence and brutality of the ongoing Israeli occupation. Neither was it accompanied by the same degree of resistance- in fact nowhere near. Something to do with the fact the Palestinians had been granted human and legal Rights, perhaps? :rolleyes: