Thread: God and cowboys - Texas' deadly mix

Quite an interesting article I thought, a very controversial topic is the issue of capital punishment of course. Tends to polarise people a lot.

But there may be some on here who might want to reflect on what is done in the name of their 'God' before they launch (yet) another salvo at others. But then again, probably not...

God and cowboys - Texas' deadly mix
5:00AM Tuesday August 14, 2007
By Ed Stoddard

Texas will almost certainly reach the grim total of 400 executions in 25 years this month, far ahead of any other American state.

The toll is testament to the influence of the state's conservative evangelical Christians and its cultural mix of Old South and Wild West. "In Texas you have all the elements lined up. Public support, a governor who supports it and supportive courts," said Death Penalty Information Centre executive director Richard Dieter.

"If any of those things are hesitant, the process slows down. With all cylinders working, as in Texas, it produces a lot of executions."
Texas has executed 398 convicts since it resumed the practice in 1982, six years after the US Supreme Court lifted a ban on capital punishment.
It has far exceeded second-place Virginia, with 98 executions since the ban was lifted, and has five executions scheduled this month.

The average time spent on death row before execution in Texas is about 10 years, not much less than the national average of nearly 11 years, says the Death Penalty Information Centre.

But the average would be considerably longer if Texas were excluded.
A Texas governor can commute a death sentence or grant a reprieve based on a recommendation from the Board of Pardons and Paroles.
But governors past and present, including President George W. Bush and the state's current chief executive Rick Perry, have taken a hands-off approach.

"The courts are not much of a check in Texas and the Executive defers to the courts," said Jordan Steiker, a law professor at the University of Texas at Austin.

Like his predecessor, Perry is a devout Christian, which highlights one factor in Texas' enthusiasm for the death penalty that many outsiders find puzzling - the support it gets from conservative evangelical churches.
This is in line with their emphasis on individuals taking responsibility for their own salvation, and they also find justification in scripture.

"A lot of evangelical Protestants not only believe that capital punishment is permissible but that it is demanded by God," said Matthew Wilson, a political scientist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

Texas also stands at an unusual geographical and cultural crossroads: part Old South, with its legacy of racism, and part Old West, with a cowboy sense of rough justice.

Some critics say the South can be seen in the racial bias of death sentencing, though Texas is not alone on this. More than 41 per cent of the inmates on death row in Texas are black, but blacks are only about 12 per cent of the state's population.

For some in Texas, the death penalty is about the victim. "It's the criminal justice system, not the victim justice system. I need to get justice for my victim. I need to see that justice here on Earth," said Cathy Hill, whose husband Barry was shot dead while working as a deputy sheriff almost seven years ago. His killer is on Texas' death row.

Support for capital punishment in Texas has also been attributed to the state's rate of violent crime, though it is not strikingly above the national average.

FBI statistics for 2005 show the national rate of violent crime was 469.2 per 100,000 inhabitants and the rate for murder and non-negligent manslaughter was 5.6. For Texas, the figures were 529.7 and 6.2.
Although the busy death chamber in the city of Huntsville, where 19 inmates have been executed by lethal injection this year, makes Texas stand out, it is starting to follow national trends towards fewer death sentences.

Figures from the state's Office of Court Administration for the decade to 2006 show a sharp drop in the number of death sentences imposed.
The highs over that period were in 1997 and 1999, each with 37 death sentences.

But in 2005, only 14 convicts were condemned to die. The longer trend is a decline in homicides - from a peak of 2652 in 1991 to 1407 in 2005. Fewer murders should translate into fewer death sentences.
Demographics could help tilt the balance a bit further, as the state's booming economy attracts outsiders - and potential jury members - from more liberal regions and as its Latino population grows rapidly.

DEATH IN THE UNITED STATES
Thirty-eight American states, the Federal Government and the US military have the death penalty. The US Supreme Court lifted a ban on capital punishment in 1976.

* Texas leads the way by far with 398 executions in what some refer to as the "modern" capital punishment era which began in Utah on January 17, 1977, with the firing-squad execution of Gary Gilmore. Virginia is second with 98, Oklahoma is third with 85 and Missouri is next with 66.
* Of the 1089 US executions in the modern era, 891 have taken place in the South.
* Texas has the second highest per capita execution rate in the US, behind Oklahoma. Delaware is third but only because its population is so small.
* Some states "clear" their death row cases more quickly than others. Virginia has had 98 executions but has only 20 inmates on its death row, a ratio of five executions to each death row inmate. Texas has 393 inmates on its death row, making its ratio almost one on one.
* Forty-two per cent of death row inmates are black, although African Americans are only about 13 per cent of the US population. About 45 per cent of death row convicts are white; the rest are Hispanic and other races.
* The most common method of execution in the United States is lethal injection.
* The number of executions has been falling, partly because murder rates are also falling, but also because of concerns about the lethal injection method and wrongful convictions. There were 53 executions in the US last year, the lowest number since 1996, when there were 45.
* Serial killer Ted Bundy, who was electrocuted in Florida in 1989, and Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, who was put to death by lethal injection in 2001, are two of the most famous criminals executed in the United States in the modern era.
- Reuters

Violent crime remains higher than the national average in the state that executes the most people.
Does this tell us something about the intelligence of the criminals in Texas?

Originally Posted by Spin

Violent crime remains higher than the national average in the state that executes the most people. Does this tell us something about the intelligence of the criminals in Texas?

Yeehaaa!

Oh, probably says something about the ineffectualness of capital punishment as a deterrent also.

It's not meant to be a deterent. It's meant to be justice (as per the article), retribution and vengeance all rolled into one.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

It's not meant to be a deterent. It's meant to be justice (as per the article), retribution and vengeance all rolled into one.

Be that as it may, one of the commonly cited arguments for proponents of capital punishment is the, alledged, 'deterrent factor'.

^
That premise has been proved false. Nobody does a crime thinking that they will get caught, even less that they will lose their life over it.

Originally Posted by Milkman

The Death Penalty has been given to some for a crime, while another convict is given a lessor sentence. It doesn't seem to be applied evenly. It's also expensive, and takes too much time to execute people. Recent DNA studies have exonerated some. I think the death penalty is worthy, but the way it's implemented in not good and it's too expensive.

Those are pretty much my sentiments exactly, Milkman.

I have no problem with capital punishment per se, just the system that surrounds it which I think is simply not good enough.

Basically untill there is a 100% certain way to ensure that innocent people aren't executed and that all racial bias has been removed from the system then it should be stopped.

Texas and the lunatics religious freaks who populate that state are the equivalent of Talibans in Kabul and their sharia laws. Nothing to be proud of as Christians

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Texas and the lunatics religious freaks who populate that state are the equivalent of Talibans in Kabul and their sharia laws. Nothing to be proud of as Christians

Oh, it gets worse... Apparently...

Shop targets hunters with camo Bibles

10:59AM Tuesday August 14, 2007
By Ed Stoddard


Arkansas-based online store Christian Outdoorsman does a roaring trade in camo Bibles.

DALLAS - An online outdoor retailer in the United States is selling camouflaged Bibles, a curious product which says a lot about American culture.
"Our NIV (New International Version) Bible in Realtree camo is our best selling item, followed closely by our camo Bible cover," said David Lingner, the president of Arkansas-based Christian Outdoorsman, which sells Christian-themed hunting and angling products online.
The cover of this Bible is graced by leaves and tree bark. This enables the devout who also hunt to take their Bible into the woods with them while concealing it from their prey.
The C in Christian on the shop's website is shaped like a fish hook while the O in Outdoorsman has a cross-shaped rifle scope site inside of it.
Also on offer is a camo waterproof Bible.
"Water, ice or condensation will not damage this durable word of God," proclaims the online sales pitch.
Such products are classically American and highlight cultural traits which are especially pronounced in the South.


The first is a love affair with all things camo, from pick-up trucks to baseball hats to shotguns.
"Men in the South love camo, it's just another way to communicate that they are an outdoorsman," said Lingner.
These products also highlight the US evangelical love affair with hunting, fishing and the great outdoors.
Prominent US evangelicals who engage in such activities include President George W. Bush and James Dobson, founder of the influential conservative Christian advocacy group Focus on the Family.
A US survey of licensed hunters and anglers last year commissioned by the National Wildlife Federation found half of those polled identified themselves as evangelical Christians.
Evangelical Christians, who number 60 million in the United States, are a key base of support for the Republican Party, which helps to explain its stand on a number of issues including its strident opposition to gun control. Hunters don't take kindly to restrictions on their weapons of choice.

Lingner said the evangelical enthusiasm for the outdoors went beyond the macho culture of the US South.
"Because we believe that God created all this, when we are outdoors it is really a spiritual experience and we see how awesome it is. It makes being outdoors that much more meaningful," he said.
And Christ's disciples were fishermen after all.
There are a number of US Christian outdoor ministries including Anglers for Christ Ministries, Christian Bowhunters of America and the Christian Deer Hunters Association.
Anglers for Christ Ministries said in its mission statement that it is "heeding God's call to minister to the lost and be 'Fishers of Men'."
- REUTERS

WTF!?!

^ The rest of America and the South is like the old Israel and Juda Dual Kingdom, full of religious sects, all outdoing each other for racism and devotion, full of "fraudulent" priests all looking for more followers and power.

We are witnessing in this country what happened to Israel 2000 years ago, and the end wasn't pretty, they got wipped out after a long and nasty civil war despite a temporary reconciliation (much like what we see now in the US).

The disappearance of Israel wasn't an evolution accident, it was well deserved, those fucks couldn't stand each other. It was only after the Diaspora that Judaism became unified and "full".

Anyone who puts credence in Rooters "News" Agency might as well join those whacked out religious nuts they talk about.

Apples/Oranges re Texas and Religious nuts.
Texas is home to Big Oil and my paycheck comes from there!

^
This from a man who watches Fox news 55555.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Anyone who puts credence in Rooters "News" Agency might as well join those whacked out religious nuts they talk about.

Yeah, Booners. Much better to get your opinions all nicely pre-packaged and made for you from blogs eh (or, as Sir Burr has already mentioned, Faux news). All the hard work like thinking is already done for you!

So, is there anything in particular from the Reuters article in question that you'd care to disprove or take issue with? Or you just throwing out another mindless one-liner with absolutely no point to it?

And just when you think it can't get any worse...

Bush administration to 'fast track' executions - 15 Aug 2007 - NZ Herald: World / International News

Bush administration to 'fast track' executions
12:40PM Wednesday August 15, 2007
By Andrew Gumbel

LOS ANGELES -The Bush administration is getting ready to speed up the executions of criminals on death row across the United States, effectively cutting out several layers of appeals in the federal courts so prisoners can be "fast-tracked" to the death chamber.

With less than 18 months to go to secure a presidential legacy, George Bush has turned to an issue he has specialised in since approving a record number of executions while Governor of Texas.

The US attorney general, Alberto Gonzales - Bush's top legal adviser during the spree of executions in Texas in the 1990s - is putting the finishing touches to new regulations, inspired by recent anti-terrorism legislation, that would allow states to turn to the Justice Department, instead of the federal courts, as a key arbiter deciding whether prisoners live or die...

Since Mr Gonzales is a prosecutor, not a judge, and since he has a track record of favouring death in almost every capital case brought before him, the regulations would effectively remove a crucial safety valve for prisoners who feel they have been wrongly convicted...

...

The administration's enthusiasm for capital punishment runs counter to the recent trend away from the death penalty in many states.
Last year saw the lowest number of capital convictions across the country - 114 - since the death penalty was reintroduced in the early 1970s.

The development of DNA testing has raised uncomfortable questions about the safety of many capital convictions, prompting Illinois to call a halt to all its executions and triggering reviews in many other states.
Over the past two years doubts have also arisen over the most popular method of execution - death by lethal injection - as new medical research has suggested it may cause prisoners to die in horrible agony.
One of the cocktail of drugs typically administered, pancuronium bromide, paralyses the body and thus masks any pain without necessarily alleviating it...

President Bush, however, has always been a death penalty enthusiast - the 152 prisoners he sent to the gallows in his eight years as governor of Texas set a high-water mark unmatched before or since.

According to official memos unearthed through a public records search a few years ago, Governor Bush would give the green light to executions based on no more than a half-hour briefing from Mr Gonzales, who was then his top legal aide.

Mr Gonzales, in turn, often omitted mitigating evidence that death penalty opponents deemed to be crucial to determine whether a prisoner deserved clemency.

At no time has Mr Bush seen any contradiction with his avowed commitment to the sanctity of life.
As president he has even instituted a National Sanctity of Human Life Day, which, he has said, "serves as a reminder that we must value human life in all its forms, not just those considered healthy, wanted, or convenient"...

Excellent. So Bush wants to leave a legacy and he wants that legacy to be of killing people. And he wants to do this by ignoring due process and fundamental rights.

All of which is achingly familiar, now why is that? Oh yes, that whole Iraq thing. Apparently that isn't enough ignoring of due process and killing for him to sustain a viable legacy so he needs to turn his attention closer to home.

Nice to see the good old Christian tradition of hypocrisy is alive and well!

nothing like a few public beheading to regain popularity

It works great for the Saudis, Talibans, and the Mayas. Why not with Americans ?

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

^
This from a man who watches Fox news 55555.

Find one reference in any forum where I've stated I watch Fox News, eh?

Read this, It seems to tell you why the state of Texas is the highest in criminal activity.

The population of Texas has grown one-hundred fold in the century and a half since statehood and changed dramatically in composition. In 1850, almost 70 percent of the state's 212,592 inhabitants were white, the majority settlers from other states. About 28 percent were black slaves and the rest were Hispanic or Indian. By 2000, with a population straining toward 21 million, whites had shrunk to 50 percent and African-Americans were under 12 percent. Almost 34 percent were Hispanics while Asian and "other" groups exceeded 4 percent.

Texas Politics - Racial and Ethnic Population Trends in Texas, 1850-2000

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Find one reference in any forum where I've stated I watch Fox News, eh

OK....

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Too bad fox News wasn't the quality news organization it is today or I would have watched it

https://teakdoor.com/us-domestic-issu...tml#post254287

and let's not forget the entire (and utterly moronic) thread you started....

https://teakdoor.com/issues/12545-evil-fox-news.html


simp.

^
Heh...think I'll give that one a bump now that you've reminded me of it!