It is funny isn't it. The vast majority of the bullshit pumped out by Ent and Piwi come from this work of utter fiction......Or sad.. Yes, it is sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
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It is funny isn't it. The vast majority of the bullshit pumped out by Ent and Piwi come from this work of utter fiction......Or sad.. Yes, it is sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
^^ Good post Pseud. This is the pro-Israel narrative- which fully concedes that Israel launched the first ('pre-emptive') strike:-
Faced with few choices, on June 4, 1967 the Cabinet authorized the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defence to decide on appropriate steps to defend the State of Israel.On June 5, Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against Egypt and captured the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip. Despite an Israeli appeal to Jordan to stay out of the conflict, Jordan attacked Israel and thereby lost control of the West Bank and the eastern sector of Jerusalem. Israel went on to capture the Golan Heights from Syria by the time the war ended on June 10.
Who Started The Six Day War?
When you read the apocalyptic and blood curdling comments of extremist Israeli's re exiting Palestine, it is relevant to remember that exactly the same comments were made by exactly the same kind of people re exiting the Sinai- which duly happened, a decade after the 1967 war.
It is just crazy
The problem is that the fake narrative is repeated throughout the media, from "news" to movies, and even intelligent people (clearly, excluding piwi and ent from this group) really can not face the idea that everything they have been taught about it is a blatant lie.
What will piwis response be? Yeah but yeah but... and then ignore it. How can he possibly combat against the words of the actual antagonists? Even LBJ in his memoir stated this - israel were not the victim, they were the aggressor. They were not under threat. Simple proof that if you win the war, you write the history.
Quote:
and HTF can the Israeli's sit round the Table with Hamas when it simply refuse's to knowledge Israeli's right to exist , Israeli signed a peace deal with both Egypt and Jordan , they could maybe even do it with Mahmoud Abbas in the West bank but Hamas and Gaza a snowball in hells chance.
Missed this little gem.
1 - Under international law, there is nothing written that says that a body of people has to recognise another body of people's state.
2 - There is also no explicit "right to exist either". Just because a group of people want a state to "exist", there is no legal foundation at all that says therefore it does. this is why the emphasis is on the international community, other states basically, to recognise the states existence.
3 - israel keeps banging on about this, but they are not saying the one crucial part, and as usual, the devil is in the detail which is why fawning fools like PiwaCILE misses it. APRIL 24 2014, Hamas and Fatah signed a reconciliation agreement. As part of that they accepted and agreed to work towards a TWO STATE SOLUTION. See that, Piwi, a TWO STATE SOLUTION. Now if you and your bellend mates want to keep insisting that Hamas does not recognise the state of Israel, well what was the other State then? Come on, there must be an answer to this on Pat Condell? Hamas signed an agree accepting a two state solution, one of which is the State of Palestine, and the other is what exactly? It is the State of Israel. So therefore, Hamas accepted the State of Israel, and recognised it's right to exist.
4 - Of course, this caused a problem for Bibi and his band of murderous criminals. They never wanted Hamas and Fatah to agree on anything, and certainly did not want them to put on paper that they accepted the State of Israel, and recognised it's right to exist. So with the emphatic embarrassment of Lebanon still ringing in their ears, where the brave IDF chickened out of a ground war with hezbollah (israel IDF are cowards and will only fight on the ground against unarmed civilians), Bibi needed to show the voters in israel, and the hostages to the lobby that israel was hard, so he decided to attack Gaza again. Nothing makes the idiots like piwi and bEnt cheer more than one of the biggest and most sophisticated war machines attacking an unarmed civilian population. The fact that israels greatest fear was becoming a reality, as in Hamas coming to the table with Fatah to agree to a two state solution and accepting israels right to exist...well if that was allowed out, israel and bibi were fucked! So they attacked Gaza again.
...and so we continue.
israel does not want peace. The wall they have built? They continually say that that is their FINAL border in that area. Final. It is about 10% of the occupied areas, includes all of the critical infrastructure, the majority of fertile useful land, and most of the settlements. This is the likely gambit. They will try to make a trade off in relation to the Right of Return (as dictated by international law). They will say "OK, oooooiiivey, we will withdraw from 90% of the occupied area, to the wall. Such a big sacrifice for us ooooooiiivey ooooiivey and we are the victim in all of this. In return for this, you Palestinian refuges in other countries, you can not come back".
This has been a common theme in the John Kerry peace talks, most of the utterances from obomba the butcher, and every other supporter of israel that aree pretending to be Neutral, but are actually just trying to force the israeli view point o the Palestinians.
However, still, Hamas accepts israels right to exist. Nothing has been withdrawn.
word of warning for piwi and ent... don't you dare start throwing around the MEMRI translated Hamas Charter from decades ago. They are about as reliable as the protocols of zion (although one must admit that the plans and prediction of the protocols of zion have mostly come to bear).
So hopefully we have put this old lie to bed.
Questions, Piwi? Ent? and please do not start your posts with "yeah but". :)
Start worrying.
Oh no! Ent has been watching Pat condell or something and is going to blow us all away with his false logic, made up history, and propaganda?
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/05/705.jpg
All that junk came from Alan Hart, the well known conspiracy spinner and anti-Israeli shill's site, excerpts of which you cherry picked, of course, to suit your twisted Jew-bashing agendum, as usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudolus
A Visit With a Person of High Strangeness Is Rupert Murdoch Ignorant or an Agent of Zionist Deception?
Check the quotes and sources and what do we find?
Well, well, a few, (literally a handful of) dissident, retrospective views of WTF went on in that 6 Day war, which you pseudolus (aptly named, ( as pseud or pseudo = false, phony, fake, as does dolus = false, phony fake) have now happily reduced to a 24 hour war, (you have an amazing gift with fiddling the numbers) to suit your latest twist on reality, for Sh*t knows what reason other than personal gratification.
Your pal Hart is as weird as your other conman sh*t-head snake-oil salesman, Noakes, that you so happily endorsed and defended in the Doghouse thread, "Muslim issues:The good, the bad and the ugly megathread".
But not to just take my word for it, have a gander at the twit and listen to the junk he spiels;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ8h1USNuNk
What did he say about 9/11?
"...Israel would need to get a false flag (op) in order to drag America in (to a war)"
And that, folks, is as stupid as it gets.
------
Back to the 1967 Arab-Israeli 6 Day War.
A timeline immediately preceding the war
April 1967 Israel's army and air force attacked Syria, in response to Syrian shooting towards an Israeli tractor ploughing in the DMZ
May 1967
Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border.
May 15, 1967
Egypt moves troops en mass into the Sinai.
May 16
Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border.
In a meeting with Nasser, Johnson’s special envoy to the UAR, Robert B. Anderson, expressed U.S. puzzlement over why he had massed troops in the Sinai, to which Nasser replied, “Whether you believe it or not, we were in fear of an attack from Israel. We had been informed that the Israelis were massing troops on the Syrian border with the idea of first attacking Syria, there they did not expect to meet great resistance, and then commence their attack on the UAR.”
Anderson then told Nasser “that it was unfortunate the UAR had believed such reports, which were simply not in accordance with the facts”, to which Nasser responded that his information had come from reliable sources (presumably referring to intelligence information passed along by the USSR)
May 18, 1967
Syria amasses troops in the Golan Heights.
May 19
Egypt expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.
Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or justification for war.
May 20, 1967
Haffez Al Assad, then Syria defense minister, makes this statement:
"Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united....I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation."
May 22–23. Nasser declared the Straits of Tiran closed, blocking Israel's access to the Red Sea to the Indian Ocean.
May 23-27, 1967
Egyptian Field Marshal Amer planned initiating an attack on Israel on May 27, Quoted telling "This time we will be the ones to start the war" meaning to hold the military initiative on the field.
The code-name to that planned attack was Operation Dawn.
This was counter to Nasser's strategy of pushing Israel to start the war, like he had in 1956.
Nasser ordered Amer to hold off the attack and do what they did in 1956 again, hours before the planned launch of the attack.
At 2:30 a.m. on May 27, Soviet Ambassador to Egypt Dimitri Pojidaev knocked on Nasser's door and read him a personal letter from the Soviet first deputy premier, Alexei Kosygin, in which he said, "We don't want Egypt to be blamed for starting a war in the Middle East. If you launch that attack, we cannot support you."
May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan. They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent.
June 1 Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet.
June 4 The decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that launched the Six-Day War.
https://history.state.gov/historical...1964-68v19/ch1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...he_Six-Day_War
https://www.quora.com/Did-Israel-sta...ay-War-in-1967
Hey, subung, Jordan once accepted all Arabs entering Jordan from Israel, but no more, Jordan although declaring itself Palestine and Palestine being Jordan, which you are completely in denial of, now is dominated by Palestinians, yup, Palestinians as you call them are now in the majority in Jordan, and are no more welcome there than fleas on a dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
The same goes for Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi,....they all hate the hell out of the moaning, whining, bitching, exploitative wannabee refugee culture called "the Palestinians".
Who wants them? No one. Arafat tried to use them for political gain, Hamas has tried the same, as has Hezbolla and the Palestinian Authority also, to no avail, other than to use the refo Palis as political shuttle-cocks, batting them around and egging them on to fight their wars for them.
Now back to your stupid assertion that Jordan magically existed as an emirate before the Brits gifted 3/4 of Palestine to the Hashemites, the same ones who keep saying that Jordan is Palestine and vice versa.
Read this;
General Reference (not clearly pro or con)
Ian J. , PhD, Professor of Middle Eastern History at the University of New South Wales, and Carla L. Klausner, PhD, Professor of the Modern Middle East at the University of Missouri-Kansas City, in their 2002 book A Concise History of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, wrote:
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/05/719.jpg
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2016/05/720.jpg
"The League of Nations [Belgium, Britain, France, Greece, Italy, and Japan] divided the territory [formerly under Ottoman rule] into new entities, called mandates. The mandates would be administered like trusts by the British and French, under supervision of the League, until such time as the inhabitants were believed by League members to be ready for independence and self-government...
The mandate territories were Syria and Lebanon, awarded to France; Iraq, awarded to Britain; and a new entity called Palestine, which was also placed under British control. Palestine, as defined for the first time in modern history at San Remo, included the land on both sides of the Jordan River and encompassed the present-day countries of Israel and Jordan. However, boundary changes were soon made...The British decided...to carve out of the Palestine mandate a new entity east of the Jordan River [Transjordan]... In July 1922, the League of Nations ratified the mandate arrangements, including the changes that had been made since 1920."
British Mandate For Palestine, July 24, 1922 - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org
British Mandate For Palestine, July 24, 1922
League of Nations
The Council of the League of Nations
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League of Nations;
Confirming the said mandate, defines its terms as follows:
Article 1.
The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate.
Article 2.
The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self -governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
Article 3.
The Mandatory shall,so far as circumstances permit, encourage local autonomy.
Article 4.
An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration, to assist and take part in the development of the country.
The Zionist organisation, so long as its organisation and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
Article 5.
The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.
Article 6.
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency. referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews, on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
Article 7.
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
Article 8.
The privileges and immunities of foreigners, including the benefits of consular jurisdiction and protection as formerly enjoyed by Capitulation or usage in the Ottoman Empire, shall not be applicable in Palestine.
Unless the Powers whose nationals enjoyed the afore-mentioned privileges and immunities on August 1st, 1914, shall have previously renounced the right to their re-establishment, or shall have agreed to their non-application for a specified period, these privileges and immunities shall, at the expiration of the mandate, be immediately re-established in their entirety or with such modifications as may have been agreed upon between the Powers concerned.
Article 9.
The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as wen as to natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.
Respect for the personal status of the various peoples and communities and for their religious interests shall be fully guaranteed. In particular, the control and administration of Wakfs shall be exercised in accordance with religious law and the dispositions of the founders.
Article 10.
Pending the making of special extradition agreements relating to Palestine, the extradition treaties in force between the Mandatory and other foreign Powers shall apply to Palestine.
Article 11.
The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land.
The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly, shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any further profits shall be utilised by it for the benefit of the country in a manner approved by the Administration.
Article 12.
The Mandatory shall be entrusted with the control of the foreign relations of Palestine and the right to issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers. He shall also be entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine when outside its territorial limits.
Article 13.
All responsibility in connection with the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing rights and of securing free access to the Holy Places, religious buildings and sites and the free exercise of worship, while ensuring the requirements of public order and decorum, is assumed by the Mandatory, who shall be responsible solely to the League of Nations. in all matters connected herewith, provided that nothing in this article shall prevent the Mandatory from entering into such arrangements as he may deem reasonable with the Administration for the purpose of carrying the provisions of this article into effect; and provided also that nothing in this mandate shall be construed as conferring upon the Mandatory authority to interfere with the fabric or the management of purely Moslem sacred shrines, the immunities of which are guaranteed.
Article 14.
A special Commission shall be appointed by the Mandatory to study, define and determine the rights and claims in connection with the Holy Places and the rights and claims relating to the different religious communities in Palestine. The method of nomination, the composition and the functions of this Commission shall be submitted to the Council of the League for its approval, and the Commission shall not be appointed or enter upon its functions without the approval of the Council.
Article 15.
The Mandatory shall see that complete freedom of conscience and the free exercise of all forms of worship, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, are ensured to all. No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants of Palestine on the ground of race, religion or language. No person shall be excluded from Palestine on the sole ground of his religious belief.
The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to such educational requirements of a general nature as the Administration may impose, shall not be denied or impaired.
Article 16.
The Mandatory shall be responsible for exercising such supervision over religious or eleemosynary bodies of all faiths in Palestine as may be required for the maintenance of public order and good government. Subject to such supervision, no measures shall be taken in Palestine to obstruct or interfere with the enterprise of such bodies or to discriminate against any representative or member of them on the ground of his religion or nationality.
Article 17.
The Administration of Palestine may organise on a voluntary basis the forces necessary for the preservation of peace and order, and also for the defence of the country, subject, however, to the supervision of the Mandatory, but shall not use them for purposes other than those above specified save with the consent of the Mandatory, Except for such purposes, no military, naval or air forces shall be raised or maintained by the Administration of Palestine.
Nothing in this article shall preclude the Administration of Palestine from contributing to the cost of the maintenance of the forces of the Mandatory in Palestine.
The Mandatory shall be entitled at all times to use the roads, railways and ports of Palestine for the movement of armed f forces and the carriage of fuel and supplies.
Article 18.
The Mandatory shall see that there is no discrimination in Palestine against the nationals of any State Member of the League of Nations (including companies incorporated under its laws) as compared with those of the Mandatory or of any foreign State in matters concerning taxation, commerce or navigation, the exercise of industries or professions, or in the treatment of merchant vessels or civil aircraft. Similarly, there shall be no discrimination in Palestine against goods originating in or destined for any of the said States, and there shall be freedom of transit under equitable conditions across the mandated area.
Subject as aforesaid and to the other provisions of this mandate, the Administration of Palestine may, on the advice of the Mandatory, impose such taxes and customs duties as it may consider necessary, and take such steps as it may think best to promote the development of the natural resources of the country and to safeguard the interests of the population. It may also, on the advice of the Mandatory, conclude a special customs agreement with any State the territory of which in 1914 was wholly included in Asiatic Turkey or Arabia.
Article 19.
The Mandatory shall adhere on behalf of the Administration of Palestine to any general international conventions already existing, or which may be concluded hereafter with the approval of the League of Nations, respecting the slave traffic, the traffic in arms and ammunition, or the traffic in drugs, or relating to commercial equality, freedom of transit and navigation, aerial navigation and postal, telegraphic and wireless communication or literary, artistic or industrial property.
Article 20.
The Mandatory shall co-operate on behalf of the Administration of Palestine, so far as religious, social and other conditions may permit, in the execution of any common policy adopted by the League of Nations for preventing and combating disease, including diseases of plants and animals.
Article 21.
The Mandatory shall secure the enactment within twelve months from this date, and shall ensure the execution of a Law of Antiquities based on the following rules. This law shall ensure equality of treatment in the matter of excavations and archaeological research to the nations of all States Members of the League of Nations.
(1) 'Antiquity' means any construction or any product of human activity earlier than the year A.D. 1700.
(2) The law for the protection of antiquities shall proceed by encouragement rather than by threat.
Any person who, having discovered an antiquity without being furnished with the authorisation referred to in paragraph 5, reports the same to an official of the competent Department, shall be rewarded according to the value of the discovery.
(3) No antiquity may be disposed of except to the competent Department, unless this Department renounces the acquisition of any such antiquity.
No antiquity may leave the country without an export licence from the said Department.
(4) Any person who maliciously or negligently destroys or damages an antiquity shall be liable to a penalty to be fixed.
(5) No clearing of ground or digging with the object of finding
antiquities shall be permitted, under penalty of fine, except to persons authorised by the competent Department.
(6) Equitable terms shall be fixed for expropriation, temporary or permanent, of lands which might be of historical or archaeological interest.
(7) Authorisation to excavate shall only be granted to persons who show sufficient guarantees of archaeological experience. The Administration of Palestine shall not, in granting these authorisations, act in such a way as to exclude scholars of any nation without good grounds.
(8) The proceeds of excavations may be divided between the excavator and the competent Department in a proportion fixed by that Department. If division seems impossible for scientific reasons, the excavator shall receive a fair indemnity in lieu of a part of the find.
Article 22.
English, Arabic and Hebrew shall be the official languages of Palestine. Any statement or inscription in Arabic on stamps or money in Palestine shall be repeated in Hebrew, and any statement or inscription in Hebrew shall be repeated in Arabic.
Article 23.
The Administration of Palestine shall recognise the holy days of the respective communities in Palestine as legal days of rest for the members of such communities.
Article 24.
The Mandatory shall make to the Council of the League of Nations an annual report to the satisfaction of the Council as to the measures taken during the year to carry out the provisions of the mandate. Copies of all laws and regulations promulgated or issued during the year shall be communicated with the report.
Article 25.
In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.
Article 26.
The Mandatory agrees that, if any dispute whatever should arise between the Mandatory and another Member of the League of Nations relating to the interpretation or the application of the provisions of the mandate, such dispute, if it cannot be settled by negotiation, shall be submitted to the Permanent Court of International Justice provided for by Article 14 of the Covenant of the League of Nations.
Article 27.
The consent of the Council of the League of Nations is required for any modification of the terms of this mandate.
Article 28.
In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants ,to pensions or gratuities.
The present instrument shall be deposited in original in the archives of the League of Nations and certified copies shall be forwarded by the Secretary-General of the League of Nations to all Members of the League.
Done at London the twenty-fourth day of July, one thousand nine hundred and twenty-two.
British Mandate For Palestine, July 24, 1922 - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org
Let's say you're correct - probably not, you often aren't, but for the sake of argument - how is that in any way different from what you yourself do when engaging in your Mooslim-bashing agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
What a load of old tosh. How long have you been up rewriting all of this junk to support your supposition that israel was the victim?Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
McNamara Says No to Israel's Arm Request (April 1967) | Jewish Virtual Library
Quote:
Lyndon Johnson Administration:
McNamara Says No to Israel's Arm Request
(April 17, 1967)
SUBJECT
Israeli Arms Requests
I believe you are familiar with the recommendation of the Interdepartmental Regional Group for Near East-South Asia (IRG/NESA) that we should not accede to Israel's request for 200 armored personnel carriers (APCs), on either a grant aid or sales basis./2/
/2/See Document 400.
I personally support that recommendation, and believe it would be a serious mistake for us to provide APCs to Israel at this time, either 200 or any lesser number. I recognize our interest in the maintenance by Israel of an adequate deterrent against attack by any of its Arab neighbors, but the present and prospective military balance in the Middle East strongly favors Israel. The Joint Chiefs of Staff have recently confirmed their view that Israel will be militarily unchallengeable by any combination of Arab states at least during the next five years./3/ As presently trained and equipped, the armed forces of Israel are greatly superior in effectiveness and firepower to those of their potential opponents, individually or collectively.
/3/See Document 387.
Israeli security is also strengthened by the US policy of maintaining a controlled military supply relationship with those Arab states who show moderation toward Israel and who resist opportunities to acquire Soviet equipment; this helps to avoid a polarization of the Arab-Israeli dispute along East-West lines. Our dramatic airlift of equipment to Jordan last winter was necessary to save King Hussein's regime, which had been badly undermined by the unfortunate Israeli raid against Samu in November. Our failure to act could have led to a rapid deterioration in Jordan, involving the introduction of Egyptian armed forces and Soviet advisers and equipment. Provision of additional APCs to Israel at this time could, in my judgment, only serve to undercut the good effect of what we did for Jordan, to "pay twice" for the Israeli miscalculation at Samu, and to agitate a situation that is now relatively quiescent.
In the agreement of March 1966 for the purchase of Skyhawk aircraft,/4/ Israel explicitly recognized that that sale did not constitute a precedent for future U.S. action, and further agreed "to continue to look to Europe for the bulk of its military requirements and not to regard the U.S. as a major arms supplier." In making its current request for APCs, the Israelis would appear to be disregarding these conditions which they accepted just over a year ago. In my judgment, our recent supplementary aid to Jordan has not altered the validity of these conditions.
/4/See Document 283.
I therefore recommend that we turn down the Israeli request for APCs, and suggest that they should look to Western European sources if they consider it necessary to purchase APCs at this time.
Robert S. McNamara
So - you refute my points, ENT.
8th United States Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara - categorically states that 1 - israel is under no threat.
2 - israel's aggression towards its neighbours is destabilizing the region.
How are you going to refute this?
:smileylaughing:
Aides Advise Military Aid Should to Lebanon, Not Israel (March 1967) | Jewish Virtual Library
This record of the meeting of the Interdepartmental Regional Group for Near East and South Asia discusses whether the United States should meet the arms requests from Lebanon and Israel. The record shows that the Group supports military aid to Lebanon, but not to Israel.
[Here follows a list of members present, including Acting Executive Chairman Battle, Hoopes, Saunders, Williams of AID, Critchfield of CIA, Brigadier General Sibley of the JCS Staff, and Nevins of USIA. Others present included Handley, Davies, Wolle, Kitchen, Colonel Jordan, and Sober.]
Again - the US government in its entirity do not agree that israel is under threat, and that due to them in the recent past attacking it's neighbours, should not be armed further in this.Quote:
Israel
In considering the pending request of the Government of Israel for (1) the grant of 200 armored personnel carriers (APC's--Model M-113 A1) valued at approximately $7.4 million, (2) the grant of tank parts valued at $2 million, and (3) the supply on soft concessional credit terms of follow-on Hawk missile spares and M-48 tank parts valued at $14 million, the Group:
Agreed that Israel does not have a valid military requirement at this time for the APC's; that, in any event, the recency of Israel's attack on Samu (Jordan) made it undesirable for us to accede at this time to the supply of new weapons; that the supply of improved new APC's of the M-113 A1 type would tend to escalate the Near East arms race; and that if Israel were adamant about obtaining new APC's, our own interests dictated that the United States should not be directly involved.
Reaffirmed that we should maintain our established policy against supplying grant military aid to Israel and that we should reject the Government of Israel's request of grant aid for APC's and tank parts. The Group agreed, furthermore, that we should refuse to sell Israel the M-113 A1's or to agree to the sale of the similar U.S.-licensed, Italian-made Model M-113, for either credit or cash; and should the Government of Israel ask to purchase our APC's, we should encourage it to look to other sources in Western Europe for equipment.
The Group also reaffirmed its view that it would set an undesirable precedent to provide credit for Israel for the purchase of follow-on military spares and parts. The Group agreed, however, that if it should be determined that some concession on military supply should be made to Israel, a credit in the range of $7-10 million might be offered at the current going rate (5 1/2% interest, 7 years, 10% down payment) for the purchase of spares and parts.
You can not quibble with these by the way - The Jewish Library! This is a Pro Israeli Pro Zionist website. They are trying to show how the US government of the 1960s was antisemitic by the way.... Direct quotes from Government policy documents. :)
He was way off the mark, as the unfolding war prove.Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudolus
That's your spin on it, the war prove differently,....it happened,...after Egypt's act of war in closing off the straits of Tiran.Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudolus
The rest is history.
Memorandum Discussing Aid For Israel (March 1967) | Jewish Virtual Library
Just chucking that in...Quote:
b) Israel has not yet given us permission to visit the nuclear plant at Dimona. Our last visit was in April, although we had an informal understanding that visits would be allowed every six months.
Memorandum Urging Israel Halt Farming To Appease Syria (April 1967) | Jewish Virtual Library
This telegram urges Israel to halt its cultivation in areas near the demilitarized zone on the border with Syria, in an effort to cool tensions between Syria and Israel.
israel is grabbing land from Syria. The DMZ as you call it was Syrian Land NOT israel land. israel had no right to that land, or to farm it. The shot was likely fired by the farmer who OWNED the land watching an israel stealing it . In return, israel launched an AIR ATTACK on Syria.
You think this is normal.... you dick, but it is not. If someone stole your field, and in front of you started ploughing it, what would you do? When you shoot at the fucker is it reasonable for the air force to obliterate your TOWN?
Your little ADL MEMRI CAMERA list makes it sound oh so nice. israeli farmer in his field shot at, and thus starts the war. It completely excludes that this was stolen land, and that is was not one shooting, it was shooting going both ways.
Oh, I cry bitter tears of blood for you, you ignorant Jew basher. :rofl:
The Options for Approving the Israeli Arms Deal (April 1967) | Jewish Virtual Library
israel was building up its forces to attack it's neighbours (April 20, 1967) Long before Egypt put a few hundred men into the Sinai (which they only did in case of israeli aggression as had been committed against Syria).Quote:
b. Our critical problem with Israel is that they have wanted the advantage of a U.S. guarantee but have simultaneously wanted to maintain a military establishment which could be effective if the U.S. guarantee did not operate in a crisis. The technical reason for the Israel position is their anxiety about a quick Arab strike against them--from the air or on the ground--which we might be too slow to deal with. It is this ambiguity which has, quite understandably, in some ways led them to build up their military establishment in ways which made it easier for the Russians to have their offers of military aid accepted in the Middle East. The APC question relates to this. Bob McNamara and others think that APC purchases from the U.S. might open up another round of Soviet military credit sales to the Arabs in the Middle East. I am not sure that is necessarily so if the APC's are moved in on a clear replacement basis. There is another problem with certain members of Congress who have resisted our being an active part of the Middle East arms race.
Assessment of the Tension Between Israel and the Arabs (April 1967) | Jewish Virtual Library
Quote:
Assessment of the Tension Between Israel and the Arabs
(April 13, 1967)
This report assesses the tension between Israel and its Arab neightbors, noting that the Arabs and Israelis are no closer to resolving their fundamental differencces than previously. The report also discusses how the Soviet Union is involved in the Middle East conflict, and which side the country would support were a full-fledged war to occur.
THE ARAB-ISRAELI DISPUTE: CURRENT PHASE
The Problem
To estimate present attitudes and future trends in the Arab-Israeli problem over the next two or three years.
Conclusions
A. The Arabs and Israelis are no closer to a solution of their fundamental differences than they ever were.
B. Rivalries and disputes among the Arabs reduce their chances of doing anything significant about their quarrel with Israel; these rivalries also create some danger of precipitating crises from which large-scale Arab-Israeli hostilities could develop.
C. The Israelis seem likely to continue existing policies, including occasional retaliatory action; they would resort to force on a large scale only if they felt their security seriously endangered.
D. The Soviet leaders almost certainly view the Arab-Israeli dispute as promoting their interests. But they do not wish to see it develop into armed conflict. While continuing to supply arms to their Arab friends, they probably wish to keep the arms race from getting out of hand.
E. If and when the Arabs come to believe that the Israelis are at the point of deploying strategic missiles,/2/ a phase of sharply increased Arab-Israeli tensions will probably arise. This is likely to occur within the next two to three years. In this event, the Egyptians would probably press the Soviets for help.
/2/In the context of an Arab-Israeli conflict, strategic missiles would be those capable of striking the major population centers or military installations of the enemy, i.e., missiles with a range roughly between 100 and 500 miles. [Footnote in the source text.]
F. To such an appeal the Soviet leaders would probably feel that they had to respond in some way. They would probably pledge to help Egypt or other Arab states if attacked and would probably provide token technical aid on the Egyptian missile program. They might go so far as to provide a missile system, but we believe they would not supply nuclear warheads or assist in the development of a nuclear weapons program.
G. Although periods of increased tension in the Arab-Israeli dispute will occur from time to time, both sides appear to appreciate that large-scale military action involves considerable risk and no assurance of leading to a solution. In any event, the chances are good that the threat of great power intervention will prevent an attempt by either side to resolve the problem by military force.
Source: Central Intelligence Agency, Job 79-R01012A, ODDI Registry of NIE and SNIE Files. Secret; Controlled Dissem. According to a note on the cover sheet, the estimate was submitted by Director of Central Intelligence Richard M. Helms, and concurred in by the U.S. Intelligence Board on April 13. The Central Intelligence Agency, the intelligence organizations of the Departments of State and Defense, and the NSA participated in its preparation. The CIA, State, Defense, NSA, and AEC representatives concurred; the FBI representative abstained, the subject being outside his jurisdiction.
You should read this as well ENT - Arabs are not going to do anything, but if they did it would be to stop israel's NUKE program coming onto line.
You forget this - at this time, they were worried about the psychotic israeli murderers having NUKES which the French supplied to them.
VICTIM ISRAEL> SAMSON OPTION.
He was spot on. israel attacking its neighbors for a land grab.Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
You have not provided any proof from primary source documents to refute that, and are only pushing out the same old tired israeli rewriting of history.
None of the neighbours wanted a war. They were being attacked by israel, and israel probably did that after hearing from the USA that they would win.
You really are pathetic. Clueless. Obvious to any historical facts and blinded by propaganda which you use to cast suspicion away that, at the end of the day, like most plastic israelis, you are nothing but a vile bitter racist.
Yeah way off the Mark all right , a little like Neville (peace in our time) Chamberlain , And Stalin who thought Operation Barbarossa was a figment of his Generals Imagination :smileylaughing:Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTHe was way off the mark, as the unfolding war prove.Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudolus
Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudolus
Hell, eh?
You're an inveterate liar and a losy number cruncher.
No wonder you failed high school.
Were they the few hundred POWs that got allegedly massacred that you screech on about?? :rofl:
Egypt's forces in the Sinai build-up before 5th June 1967 amounted to 14,000 men.
Plus, 150 tanks (over 100 Centurions and Super Shermans with 105 mm guns, the rest were AMX-13s with 75 mm guns)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...u-Ageila_(1967)
What is your point? Are you one of these morons who think Russian Agression is them building up troops in Russia near the border for exercises in their country?Quote:
Originally Posted by ENT
Egypt already have forces there. Of course they did - their new neighbour was an illegal occupied who non stop hand been attcking its neighbour countries and was developing NUKES. You are a special kind of stupid to think that they would not build up on their border. SINAI was EGYPT lest you forget although I am sure that the zionists building the greater israel project think that it is israel's promised lands
Sinai was illegally occupied. It was eventually returned just as the GOLAN HEIGHTS will be one day as well. Get used to it, chump.
:rofl:
Oh, man, you haven't a clue!!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudolus
You go on about providing primary sourced documentation as 'proof' when all you can do is spin yarns and give junk website refs like Alan Hart's rubbish or other neo-nazi spielers as proof.
I've given you loads of primary source refs, you just won't read them, as you're too scared to.
Hey, wanna know about Syria and Egypt's deal to attack Israel?
Well go and read my post about it, it's all there, along with the references.
Go on, there's a good boy, ..sorry I mean, Jew-basher, :rofl: