Thread: What Will It Take To Get Rid Of ISIS?

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

You forgot about Gengkis khan.

What about him?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

That flaming queer Lawrence of Arabia has a lot to answer for.

If the British had listened to Lawrence instead of breaking all the promises they'd made to the Arab leaders who'd helped them defeat the Turks the Middle East would be a far more stable place.

The past can effect the future, though you have to go back to the past to clear the future,which hasn't happened in 98 yrs since WW1.

Blaming the past for the future is a cop out.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

Right so it was World war 1 now that was to blame.

You don't think the past affected the present? That's a pretty unique perspective.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

That flaming queer Lawrence of Arabia has a lot to answer for.

If the British had listened to Lawrence instead of breaking all the promises they'd made to the Arab leaders who'd helped them defeat the Turks the Middle East would be a far more stable place.

Agree 100%

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

Blaming the past for the future is a cop out.

Blame does not fix the present but historical insight sure enhances the ability to predict the outcome of a particular action.

What about the Crusades?

Now ISIS has control of Palmyra. You can kiss all the ancient artifacts in that city good-bye.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

What about the Crusades?

Or how we stopped the advancing hordes at the Gates of Vienna in 1683.

'We are in a new phase of a very old war'.

http://gatesofvienna.net/

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

What about the Crusades?

As they are still ongoing it's hard to tell the eventual outcome.

Originally Posted by spliff

Shia militia could emerge as the preeminent power in the country.

Which would match the Shia population majority of Iraq.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Or how we stopped the advancing hordes at the Gates of Vienna in 1683.

Jumpin' jeshosefats, BM . . . you are older than I had thought!!!!!

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Or how we stopped the advancing hordes at the Gates of Vienna in 1683.

Jumpin' jeshosefats, BM . . . you are older than I had thought!!!!!

"We" as in God, Guns & Guts

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

The past can effect the future, though you have to go back to the past to clear the future,which hasn't happened in 98 yrs since WW1.

Blaming the past for the future is a cop out.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

Right so it was World war 1 now that was to blame.

You don't think the past affected the present? That's a pretty unique perspective.

Blame and cause aren't the same thing. I haven't really heard anybody "blame" the past, it would be a rather odd thing to do. However, there is absolutely no doubt that the present problems originated with past actions and understanding how a problem came about is one of the most vital steps on the way to solving that problem. Example, defeat in WW1 caused the final collapse of the Ottoman Empire (a slow collapse which began when Boon Mee held off Suleiman at the gates of Vienna), that caused the winners of that war to begin a land grab in the middle east, that caused the creation of "fake" states like Mesopotamia/Iraq, and Syria(and, a little later, Saudi Arabia and Israel). These states were created with no regard to religious, cultural, or tribal boundaries. They could only be held together by force. Once the League of Nations lost interest that force was provided by local warlords. That unpleasant but relatively stable situation lasted until it was destroyed, for no good reasons, by us, by our bombs in some places and our encouragement of rebellion in others. Now those fake states have once again split up and reverted to anarchy. People who once had a decent life and a future to look forward to now exist in a world of hatred, death, and destruction and have no hope of anything in the way of a decent future. No wonder they want to either run away or else destroy the societies that destroyed theirs. What religion does here, as it did in Northern Ireland, is provide a unifying factor, something to hold on to when what should be the unifying factor, society and the state, has been destroyed. Religious fundamentalism is not the cause of this conflict, something else we learn from history, it is a symptom.

Once the causes can be glimpsed (and not coincidentally this creation of fake states is one of the root causes of the chaos in Africa too) a solution, long term perhaps, can also be glimpsed. That is why the past is important. Without a knowledge of how we got here we have no idea of where here is. To dismiss the past as of no importance to the present is not only one of the worst forms of irresponsibility it is also to dismiss everything that has led us to this point and everything that has made us what we are today.

Dr. Bob, I stand corrected. Many of the artifacts have already been moved. I should have just said kiss the ruins good-bye since ISIS likes to blow shit up.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

kiss the ruins good-bye since ISIS likes to blow shit up.

Yeah, reckon you're right there. Those bastards have destroyed so much. Cultural artifacts that have stood for thousands of years and now only exist in photographs. I would be happy to see every one of their leaders hanged for those crimes alone (I know I'm contradicting myself on what I've said before about the death penalty but I'm only human), let alone all the other horrors they've inflicted on the ME and the Levant.

Yes, they are digging themselves a pretty deep hole. If they do become the dominant faction in the ME they will be difficult to negotiate with since they have burnt so many bridges.

If this were hollywood, they would ultimately be defeated by the good guys (whoever that is), but this isn't hollywood. Movies always villianize a character or group of characters before they write them out of the script and ISIS fits the bill. You could always spin it 180 degrees like some are trying to do here and paint ISIS as victims. They would then be applauded for defeating the coalition because they would then be the villians.

Either way, it is going to be a long while before a dominant faction surfaces in the ME. Let's all just hope they turn out to be the good guys.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

If they do become the dominant faction in the ME

Don't foresee that happening. They've managed to get on the wrong side of near all the ME nations. The noose is and will continue to tighten. Their access to funds will be cut off. Their leaders hunted down and killed. Their recruiting will dwindle as more and more are killed. How long it will take is unknown but if the pressure on them is continued, only a matter of time.

Unfortunately in the mean time the deranged bastards will do a lot of damage and as always too many innocents will die.

Should we wish to find the cause, how about the Sykes–Picot Agreement.
and then we can go on and blame the west for there complete ignorance.

Here's a interesting read.

How the West is responsible for all the problems in the Middle East | Seth J. Frantzman

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Yes, they are digging themselves a pretty deep hole. If they do become the dominant faction in the ME they will be difficult to negotiate with since they have burnt so many bridges.

If this were hollywood, they would ultimately be defeated by the good guys (whoever that is), but this isn't hollywood. Movies always villianize a character or group of characters before they write them out of the script and ISIS fits the bill. You could always spin it 180 degrees like some are trying to do here and paint ISIS as victims. They would then be applauded for defeating the coalition because they would then be the villians.

Either way, it is going to be a long while before a dominant faction surfaces in the ME. Let's all just hope they turn out to be the good guys.

Please retract that comment as you know it is not true.

A good read and spin HH. This should be read by all westerners to give the other side of the ME argument.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

A good read and spin HH. This should be read by all westerners to give the other side of the ME argument.

Spin is the operative term here.

Ultimally you are responsible for your own destiny.

Jing, jing, mai go hok.

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

Should we wish to find the cause, how about the Sykes–Picot Agreement

Errr, that was covered by what I said in my post, also that agreement was, again, not THE cause, it's A cause. There is NO one cause and it's pointless looking for one.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Yes, they are digging themselves a pretty deep hole. If they do become the dominant faction in the ME they will be difficult to negotiate with since they have burnt so many bridges.

If this were hollywood, they would ultimately be defeated by the good guys (whoever that is), but this isn't hollywood. Movies always villianize a character or group of characters before they write them out of the script and ISIS fits the bill. You could always spin it 180 degrees like some are trying to do here and paint ISIS as victims. They would then be applauded for defeating the coalition because they would then be the villians.

Either way, it is going to be a long while before a dominant faction surfaces in the ME. Let's all just hope they turn out to be the good guys.

Please retract that comment as you know it is not true.

No retraction necessary. Please remove your tunnel vision to see the words in a different light than what you seem to be stuck on.