Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

^Are you styoopid?

None of these examples involved annexation.

Do you need a dictionary?

Originally Posted by birding

even going way back to the 1800

You are the foolish one here Looper refusing to understand that the majority of the people of Crimea wanted to return to be part of Russia.

But according to you invading other countries with bombs and armies, killing the people and installing puppet Governments is nowhere near as serious as Russia accepting back Crimea based on the will of the majority of the population.

Have a read of these then tell us who is the danger to the world today.

30 years on: The legacy of Reagan's invasion of Grenada | Al Jazeera America

https://ellenbrown.com/2016/03/13/ex...llarys-emails/

U.S. Interventions - 1945 to the Present William Blum

Originally Posted by birding

Originally Posted by Looper

Originally Posted by sabang

Yes, it is truly impossible to compare a Parliamentary declared Referendum, decided with an overwhelming result, to an illegal invasion that has resulted in over 500,000 dead, not to mention millions displaced. And Isil. There is absolutely no comparison.

The Kosovo intervention was humanitarian effort to stem the flow blood in a real 1990s genocide situation (not a flaky claim 200-year-old aboriginal genocide!).

The Crimean annexation was a purely self-serving 19th century old-school vintage land-grab by force.

Hilarious the delusions these merkin-phobic tin-pot dictator cheerleaders live under.

You are right Looper there has never been anything like Crimea, cant compare the invasion of Granada for instance, there was no referendum there and a number killed and it was in direct contravention of a UN resolution.

There was no referendum there because leftist rebels executed the prime minister and took charge.

The seppos took them out and democratic elections were held the next year.

As for UN resolutions, you're another one that hasn't got a fucking clue how it works.

There was no resolution - it was veto'ed by the US.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Just a general remark. The USA may do things that are despicable. But anyone believing that replacing the USA as the dominant power with Russia or China is VERY seriously deluded.

That's a good excuse (or just a mere explanation?)

John McCain tells Ukraine protesters: 'We are here to support your just cause'
Dec 15, 2013 (2 months before Maidan coup)

"Ukraine will make Europe better and Europe will make Ukraine better," he said to crowds protesting against President Viktor Yanukovich's U-turn in trade policy away from Europe towards Russia.

"We are here to support your just cause, the sovereign right of Ukraine to determine its own destiny freely and independently. And the destiny you seek lies in Europe," said McCain, a leading Republican voice on US foreign policy.

The presence of McCain at the anti-government rally after a weeks-long stand-off between demonstrators and the authorities further highlighted the geo-political East-West tug-of-war which Ukraine is once again at the centre of. Politicians from Berlin and Brussels have paid morale-boosting trips to the square, drawing denunciation from the Russian prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, for "crude" meddling in Ukraine's affairs.

McCain is in Ukraine with a Connecticut Democrat, Senator Chris Murphy.

Asked by CNN host Candy Crowley whether now was a good time to be be “taking Russia on”, given US diplomatic co-operation with Russia on issues such as Iran's nuclear programme and the civil war in Syria, McCain said: “I don't think we would be 'taking on Russia'.

“These people love the United States of America, they love freedom – and I don't think you could view this as anything other than our traditional support for people who want free and democratic society.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ort-just-cause

OSCE chief: Russian units not in Donbass -- no mention of troops and snipers from Poland and the Baltics

September 12, 2017

The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) can not confirm the presence of Russian troops in the Donbass as such, but draws attention to evidence of involvement of foreign citizens and weapons in the conflict. This was stated by OSCE Secretary General Lamberto Zannier.

"When I am asked if there are Russian units there, I, referring to the information from our observers, say that these units are not there as such, but we see the presence of military equipment from the outside. In addition, we see a large presence of equipment and fuel, which came from somewhere, in addition, there are foreign military personnel in the region," he said.

"We abstain from assessments, our task is to promote dialogue, to promote the creation of a platform on which the parties involved can discuss the situation, including economic interests," he concluded.

It should be noted that on May 2, in an interview with RBC-Ukraine, the Minister for Temporary Occupied Territories and internally displaced persons, Georgy Tuka officially recognized that there are no Russian troops on the territory of the Donbass.

Yet, Zannier did not focus on the fact that foreign mercenaries are constantly streaming into the Donbass from the Ukrainian side. As recently as March, foreign mercenaries arrived in the occupied territory of the Lugansk Peoples Republic. Military instructors from the Baltic states and Poland have been stationed 10 km from the village of Borovskoye, in the Severodonetsk area, on the base of one of the scout camps. They are training the military personnel in the tactics of fighting in urban conditions, as well as conducting subversive activities.

http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/09/osce-chief-russian-units-not-in-donbass.html

Originally Posted by Klondyke

OSCE chief: Russian units not in Donbass -- no mention of troops and snipers from Poland and the Baltics

September 12, 2017

The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) can not confirm the presence of Russian troops in the Donbass as such, but draws attention to evidence of involvement of foreign citizens and weapons in the conflict. This was stated by OSCE Secretary General Lamberto Zannier.

"When I am asked if there are Russian units there, I, referring to the information from our observers, say that these units are not there as such, but we see the presence of military equipment from the outside. In addition, we see a large presence of equipment and fuel, which came from somewhere, in addition, there are foreign military personnel in the region," he said.

"We abstain from assessments, our task is to promote dialogue, to promote the creation of a platform on which the parties involved can discuss the situation, including economic interests," he concluded.

It should be noted that on May 2, in an interview with RBC-Ukraine, the Minister for Temporary Occupied Territories and internally displaced persons, Georgy Tuka officially recognized that there are no Russian troops on the territory of the Donbass.

Yet, Zannier did not focus on the fact that foreign mercenaries are constantly streaming into the Donbass from the Ukrainian side. As recently as March, foreign mercenaries arrived in the occupied territory of the Lugansk Peoples Republic. Military instructors from the Baltic states and Poland have been stationed 10 km from the village of Borovskoye, in the Severodonetsk area, on the base of one of the scout camps. They are training the military personnel in the tactics of fighting in urban conditions, as well as conducting subversive activities.

http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/09/osce-chief-russian-units-not-in-donbass.html

There are no Russian troops there, just some foreign soldiers that wear uniforms that look like Russian ones, armed with weapons that look Russian, and calling each other Sergei and Alexei while speaking in Russian.

[QUOTE=OhOh;3628534]

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Again: Bullshit.

Euromaidan was the result of Vlad trying to take over Ukraine by (corrupt) political means to STOP it moving closer to Europe and ultimately joining NATO.

Ukraine was well on its way to European integration.

You mean like influencing the ameristani elections eh, That was the cheapest one yet 50,000 USD has been quoted. The ameristanis cant even protect the institution of democracy on their own streets. But The LORD snaps his fingers and voila a dependent nation is born.

But it wasn't was it?

It's now an occupation.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Just a general remark. The USA may do things that are despicable. But anyone believing that replacing the USA as the dominant power with Russia or China is VERY seriously deluded.

Some despicable things, look at it's history it has never stopped "doing despicable things"

The ameristanis did recently vote for somebody who expressed a very different agenda to the one he was elected on. Then again the one before was a failure.

Were the ameristanis deluded into believing ameristan would be "made better", would "withdraw from foreign involvements" ......... Looks like some were deluded into voting for a known failure, again.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

There are no Russian troops there, just some foreign soldiers that wear uniforms that look like Russian ones, armed with weapons that look Russian, and calling each other Sergei and Alexei while speaking in Russian.

Russian supplied uniforms to the locals, to keep them warm. So of course they look similar.

Russian weapons are purchased by the ameristanis, dropped to the maiden mule heads, lost when they run away, picked up by the victorious Eastern Bloc.

Russian names are around in many post Russian partner countries.

Is that your evidence of Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine, not artillery, planes, missile systems, trucks, tanks ..........

Originally Posted by OhOh

Some despicable things, look at it's history it has never stopped "doing despicable things"

The ameristanis did recently vote for somebody who expressed a very different agenda to the one he was elected on. Then again the one before was a failure.

Were the ameristanis deluded into believing ameristan would be "made better", would "withdraw from foreign involvements" ......... Looks like some were deluded into voting for a known failure, again.

If Russia was that fantastic, you would have fucking moved there by now.

Full of shit you are.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

There are no Russian troops there, just some foreign soldiers that wear uniforms that look like Russian ones, armed with weapons that look Russian, and calling each other Sergei and Alexei while speaking in Russian.

Harry, you read a "minus" where is a "plus":

It should be noted that on May 2, in an interview with RBC-Ukraine, the Minister for Temporary Occupied Territories and internally displaced persons, Georgy Tuka officially recognized that there are no Russian troops on the territory of the Donbass.

Yet, Zannier did not focus on the fact that foreign mercenaries are constantly streaming into the Donbass from the Ukrainian side. As recently as March, foreign mercenaries arrived in the occupied territory of the Lugansk Peoples Republic. Military instructors from the Baltic states and Poland have been stationed 10 km from the village of Borovskoye, in the Severodonetsk area, on the base of one of the scout camps. They are training the military personnel in the tactics of fighting in urban conditions, as well as conducting subversive activities.

We add that in the same month, the reconnaissance of the Donetsk Peoples Republic revealed the positions of ten sniper pairs from among the mercenaries of Polish private military companies.

The "foreign soldiers" are the mercenaries who fight against the separatists, not on their side...
Or how do you understand: "Military instructors from the Baltic states and Poland"?

But with you it is like : " cast pearls before swine"?before swine?

double post

You didnt read the link did you Harry ? So I will quote you short paragraph:

The real reason for the operation was Reagan's belief that the U.S. needed a victory — any victory, anywhere. After the United Nations passed a resolution condemning the invasion as a "flagrant violation of international law," he brushed it off by saying that the resolution "didn't upset my breakfast at all." Several members of Congress visited Grenada to bask in the glory, among them Rep. Dick Cheney of Wyoming, who said the invasion proved that the United States was once again "steady and reliable."

Yes I know how the US uses the UN, lies to it or ignores it whenever it suits them.

Thought I had better check again as to what actually happened after the US invasion of Grenada :

In Grenada during the ensuing months, the mass organizations were dismantled, the labor unions were re-organized, over half of all medical personnel were expelled, investment and tax codes were revised to favor foreign investment, and cooperatives and states enterprises were sold to private interests. Billboards that had inspired the population to work for justice, equality, development, and national sovereignty were quickly replaced by those designed to inspire them to buy American consumer products.

The quality of life for most islanders deteriorated in the period following the invasion despite infusions of American aid. This was most apparent in the health care field, where not a single pediatrician remained in this country where 60% of the population was under 25, nor was there a single psychiatrist to care for 180 mental patients. (Seventeen patients and one staff member were killed when the U.S. bombed the mental hospital during the invasion.)

The U.S. invasion of Grenada prompted witch-hunts throughout the Caribbean for those with leftist sympathies. Countries that thought they had the right as sovereign nations to receive economic and military assistance from whomever they pleased realized they had to reconsider. The day after the invasion, for example, Suriname closed down the Cuban embassy in its capital and expelled its diplomats.

Upon taking over the island, most foreign doctors, teachers, and other civilians were summarily arrested and expelled by U.S. officials. Shortly after the invasion, U.S. forces raided and ransacked the Pope Paul Ecumenical Center due to its supposedly "subversive activities" of aiding the poor. Hundreds of Grenadans were held for months without charge. Some suspects were shackled and blindfolded in violation of Hague Convention standards on the treatment of prisoners of war. The island's only radio station was taken over by the U.S. Navy. The right of free assembly was seriously curtailed, the press was censored, and writ of habeus corpus was abolished.

Over the next several years, U.S. forces loosened their grip and allowed for popular elections. Grenada has joined other small Caribbean islands under the leadership of a conservative and corrupt elite. The current center-right government, for example, has engaged in some major irregularities in awarding contracts for public works projects to foreign investors with criminal ties and has set up offshore banking operations with little oversight. Although Grenada's economy has been expanding, poverty is widespread, and it appears that the country has little choice but to follow the neoliberal orthodoxy dictated by Washington and its allied international financial institutions.

https://www.globalpolicy.org/compone...155/25966.html

Originally Posted by birding

You didnt read the link did you Harry ? So I will quote you short paragraph:





Yes I know how the US uses the UN, lies to it or ignores it whenever it suits them.

Then you know how just about every other country does, too.

They're politicians, they're all fucking liars.

Originally Posted by birding

Thought I had better check again as to what actually happened after the US invasion of Grenada :



https://www.globalpolicy.org/compone...155/25966.html

You are not going to find out what "actually happened" by reading whackjob websites like this.

It's a bunch of lefties that hate having their arses kicked when they try and imposes their lefty policies on everyone, and write bleating treatises like this to try and justify themselves.

owned again harry..

That was written by a US professor at a US university.

How do you find out the truth Harry by listening to CIA propaganda, it would appear so for that is what you spout.

OH and for your information the power of veto is only in the UN Security Council by the 5 permanent members it does not apply in the UN General Assembly so vested interests can not prevent critic of their actions. It was the General Assembly that condemned the invasion of Granada.

Originally Posted by Neo

owned again harry..

https://teakdoor.com/speakers-corner/...ml#post3627194

Originally Posted by birding

That was written by a US professor at a US university.

How do you find out the truth Harry by listening to CIA propaganda, it would appear so for that is what you spout.

OH and for your information the power of veto is only in the UN Security Council by the 5 permanent members it does not apply in the UN General Assembly so vested interests can not prevent critic of their actions. It was the General Assembly that condemned the invasion of Granada.

It doesn't matter what the General Assembly say, it's all wind and piss.

The point is they tried a Security Council resolution and it was veto'ed.

It wasn't Israel.

In fact in their resolution they "deplored" a lot of things, but it all turned out OK in the end.

Originally Posted by bsnub

https://teakdoor.com/speakers-corner/...ml#post3627194

Quite remarkable how the cognitive bias in these whackjobs is so strong that they will literally believe *anything* that supports their beliefs even if it has fuck all basis in fact.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Quite remarkable how the cognitive bias in these whackjobs is so strong that they will literally believe *anything* that supports their beliefs even if it has fuck all basis in fact.

Double irony then

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Double irony then

Yeah, you're still not using it right.

You're not very bright, are you?

Kremlin slams German weekly for calling Putin ‘dog’ in its article

Published time: 13 Sep, 2017

Any insult to the President of Russia is “unacceptable,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov has said while responding tAny insult to the President of Russia is “unacceptable,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov has said while responding to an article published in Germany’s Focus magazine, in which Vladimir Putin is referred to as “a dog.”

Russia’s presidential spokesman went on to say that such insults ultimately damage the reputation of the media itself, adding the Kremlin does not pay much attention to Focus magazine.

“The fact is that this media outlet is well known for its extreme subjectivity,” and not considered a “noteworthy source,” Peskov said. He added that, in the case of Russia, this subjectivity “is mostly based on extreme Russophobia.”

Moscow’s angry reaction was provoked by an article titled “50 reasons for Merkel/50 reasons against Merkel” published in the magazine issued on September 9.

“Even though she [the German Chancellor Angela Merkel] is afraid of [the Russian President Vladimir] Putin’s dog, she is not afraid of the dog Putin,” reads the offensive part referring to the Russian leader.

The issue was initially raised by the head of press service of the Russian embassy in Berlin, Denis Mikerin. “There are still red lines [that should not be crossed],” he wrote in a post on his Facebook page that featured a photo of the inflammatory piece published in Focus.

“There are things that have nothing to do with the freedom of expression or the media freedom and are by no means tolerable,” the diplomat said in his post, expressing hope that the insult aimed at the Russian president was “nothing more than unfortunate linguistic passage of a journalist.”

He also called on Focus editor-in-chief, Robert Schneider, to apologize for “this apparent fail” of his editorial office.

The Russian embassy in Germany also flagged the issue on its official Twitter account.

“Focus [editors] believe it is provocative. Is it? No. Tasteless and plain stupid? Definitely,” the embassy tweeted, challenging the German government’s spokesman Steffen Seibert to respond to the incident.

However, neither the German government nor Focus magazine responded or offered an apology. Instead, the media outlet said on Twitter there was nothing insulting in its article, just “ironic wordplay.”

“The word “dog” is basically a wordplay, which was intended to be ironic. It means “tough nut.” It was not intended to be derogatory,” the tweet said.

Later Wednesday, Schneider eventually contacted Mikerin to comment on the issue. However, his 'explanation' was similar to the magazine’s earlier statements, restating that the insulting phrase featured in article was nothing but “ironic wordplay.”

"It does not meet our expectations of a normal parity-based, respectful and responsible dialog,” Mikerin responded.

The embassy still regards the whole situation as “an unfortunate incident” that, however, still requires “concrete steps on its settlement, i.e. a formal apology from the Focus editorial office,” Mikerin said in a Facebook post.

https://www.rt.com/news/403247-kremlin-german-focus-putin-dog/