Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

Originally Posted by helge

I feel that you are being a bit pedantic, when you ask for examples of moving borders to anneks regions, in the last 25 years, and won't accept examples of fucking up whole countries Is it violence any different when the borders are still intact ?

I think the west usually has valid reasons when it gets involved in overseas engagements using its military.

I do not subscribe to the tin foil notions that the west is secretly controlled by evil forces.

You have to be very careful when you use your military forces on foreign land. The reasons have to stand up to analysis.

Using your military to strong-arm the theft of land from a neighbour is very very far from a valid reason.

Can you imagine the USA or UK or Australia doing anything even remotely similar?

Originally Posted by Looper

it is a major setback for the evolution of modern international politics on its path to the inevitable eradication of war which I believe is less than a hundred years away.

World peace, less than a hundred years away? Some fine rose coloured glasses you wear, Looper. It's an optimistic thought, though

Originally Posted by Looper

Can you imagine the USA or UK or Australia doing anything even remotely similar?

By proxy ?

Easy

You are an Australian ?
I remember that AUS had a great ally to the north of her
Nice people with a tendency to invade neighbors

They had a nod or two, or it wouldn't have been done

Unfortunately I do not have faith in our leaders as you do

Might be why you and I aren't "online"

Originally Posted by helge

I remember that AUS had a great ally to the north of her Nice people with a tendency to invade neighbors They had a nod or two, or it wouldn't have been done

I do not know what you are referring to.

Nevermind

Would derail this thread so....

Originally Posted by Looper

I think the belligerent response by Russia was way out of proportion to the original provocation.

I think Putin does not even realise the consequences of his actions in terms of how such bare-faced aggression by a G20 world power sets back the progress of the world on its path to a time of global peace.

What a superbly stupid comment from a sucker of sams proverbial.

The world is a much more peaceful place than it has been at any time in its history when measured by deaths caused by war as a percentage of global population.

This trend will continue until war no longer exists anywhere.

The world must stand united against regressive acts of international violence.

Originally Posted by Looper

This trend will continue until war no longer exists anywhere.

The world must stand united against regressive acts of international violence.

Wonderful

So you'll abolish religion and the present (robber) capitalism

Where do I sign up, Comrade ?



Might get a bit bloody at first

^^ But the world isn't united and it won't be united and it's rather fanciful to believe it will ever be united mostly because each act or action is rarely seen in isolation. There is a context. It's easy to simplify matters and put all the blame on one side and demonise the other. That's OK in itself, but it's clearly just a one sided opinion that many others will disagree with. Of course, many will agree with it, which rather makes my point about being united. We are not united even on this forum. What chance the world will be so united in less than a hundred years away that wars will be a thing of the past? Fat chance. That's all.

I think the world will one day be united.

The trajectory of human tribal organisation has been in ever larger aggregations with each century.

Within the last 50 years we have seen the formation of a united governing body for Europe.

Globalised trade will render war obsolete in time and national boundaries will become cultural relics.

Originally Posted by helge

So you'll abolish religion

Yes, I am afraid religion will have to be ritually sacrificed at some point. No hurry.

^Kaliningrad, like Lvov another Stalinist abomination that is coming back to haunt us.

Looks like the Ukrainians are failing to adhere to there commitment, the MINSK II agreement.

"Moscow has called on Berlin and Paris to take action in regards to Kiev's non-compliance with the Minsk peace agreement, in what Russia's Foreign Minister has called a “glaring breach of the first steps of the Minsk package.”

“I don't know how the political process will unfold now,” Lavrov told a news conference on Wednesday. “Yesterday I sent special notes to the foreign ministers of France and Germany, and drew their attention to the glaring breach of the first steps of the political part of the Minsk package by Kiev. I urged them to take a trilateral joint demarche in regards to our Ukrainian colleagues in order to encourage them to implement agreements which they signed, and what was supported by the leaders of Germany, France, Russia and Ukraine."

?Glaring breach?: Minsk ?violation? sees Russia urge France, Germany to act on Ukraine ? RT News


Any "glaring" non commitments from the "freedom fighters" side visible yet?

You mean they still fight back when the russian troops attack?

Anyway, heres something to ponder about Putin. Ask the question "what happened when the berlin wall fell? Did the west beat communism or did the soviets start what they call "stage 3" where they moved out to global domination. I recall a comment from an ex-stasi leader who said that the access the NSA has world wide recording every phone call, message, email etc (not metadata... because that was a lie) was the dream of the stasi... and yet we are currently subjected to a system that would make the soviets blush with pride.

Check out Christopher Storey. He thought (before he was murdered) that the cold war never finished. How dangerous is Putin? Maybe very very dangerous but not for the bullshit reasons the US and the mainstream media is trying to whip up.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

when the russian troops attack?

Originally Posted by pseudolus

I recall a comment from an ex-stasi leader

He would not have known a thing, technology did not exist in his time, and later on only NSA and GCHQ had it. Soviets were stone age - you don't run billion dollar server farms in medieval state with failing telephone connections - and then they crashed, oh there was some "hidden city" or two we knew of them anyway.

It seems the mighty USA "test fired" a defanged Minuteman missile yesterday. No word as to where it landed. As it was from the west coast I am sure North Korea and China will "display" an equally thrilling video to their masses.

F. E. Warren conducts Minuteman III missile test launch from Vandenberg

"3/23/2015 - VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- A team of Air Force Global Strike Command Airmen launched an unarmed Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile equipped with a test reentry vehicle today at 3:36 a.m. Pacific Daylight Time from Vandenberg Air Force Base, California.

Every test launch verifies the accuracy and reliability of the ICBM weapon system, providing valuable data to ensure a safe, secure and effective nuclear deterrent. The launch team, under the direction of the 576th Flight Test Squadron, Vandenberg AFB, included Airmen from the 90th Missile Wing at F. E. Warren AFB, Wyoming.

"A lot of work and preparation goes in to an operational test launch from the teams on both bases," said Lt. Col Tytonia Moore, 90th MW, Task Force commander. "With these launches, we not only verify our processes and the ICBM weapon system, we provide a visual to the world that the Minuteman III is capable of striking pretty much anywhere with extreme precision."

"The role we play here is vital to the testing and evaluation of the Minuteman III program," said Col. Kelvin Townsend, 576th Flight Test Squadron commander. "We ensure the facilities and framework are in place to conduct operational test launches in a safe and secure manner with multiple team players contributing to the reliability of the test."

F. E. Warren AFB is one of three missile bases with crew members standing alert 24-7 year round, overseeing the nation's 450 ICBM alert forces.

The ICBM community, including the Department of Defense, the Department of Energy, and U.S. Strategic Command will use the data collected from this mission for continuing force development evaluation.

The ICBM test launch program demonstrates the operational credibility of the Minuteman III and ensures the United States' ability to maintain a strong, credible nuclear deterrent as a key element of U.S. national security and the security of U.S. allies and partners."

Edging closer and closer to a cold war.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Edging closer and closer to a cold war.

Actually test shots out of Vandenberg are pretty routine. The difference is that they get reported more widely now.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Edging closer and closer to a cold war.

Now that the US politicians have voted to give Ukranians "leathal defensive weapons" the temperature has risen a few degrees.

Does this announcement by the worlds only super power mean that other pretend super powers can give it's cannon fodder the same weapon types? Does anybody in the USA actually consider the obvious potential consequences of their actions before putting their foot in their mouth.

Russia has now been given the green light to supply, train, assist the Iranians/Syrians with

1. More potent Surface to Air DEFENCE systems.
2. It could also supply anti ship missiles to protect it's country from invading forces.
3. Then we move into protecting one's country with leathal "for deterrent only" defensive nuclear tipped ground to ground missiles for the existential threats or todays bogey man.
4. A few nuclear missile armed submarines wouldn't go amiss either to enhance the defense of their country either - The nuclear powers all call their nuclear tipped missiles a deterrent.

When will the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation/Shànghǎi Hézuò Zǔzhī/Shankhayskaya Organizatsiya Sotrudnichestva 's defensive nuclear umbreller encompase all of SE Asia?

Originally Posted by OhOh

Now that the US politicians have voted to give Ukranians "leathal defensive weapons" the temperature has risen a few degrees.

You clearly have no idea how the American government works. They are not supplying Ukraine with any weapons.

You can go clean up your underwear now.

You mean this is fiction?

Bill Summary & Status - 114th Congress (2015 - 2016) - H.RES.162 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

H.RES.162
Latest Title: Calling on the President to provide Ukraine with military assistance to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity.
Sponsor: Rep Engel, Eliot L. [NY-16] (introduced 3/23/2015) Cosponsors (12)
Latest Major Action: 3/23/2015 Passed/agreed to in House. Status: On motion to suspend the rules and agree to the resolution Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 348 - 48 (Roll no. 131).

And this is fiction

Bill Text - 114th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

""Whereas the United States and its allies need a long-term strategy to expose and challenge Vladimir Putin's corruption and repression at home and his aggression abroad: Now, therefore, be it

• Resolved, That the House of Representatives strongly urges the President to fully and immediately exercise the authorities provided by Congress to provide Ukraine with lethal defensive weapon systems to enhance the ability of the people of Ukraine to defend their sovereign territory from the unprovoked and continuing aggression of the Russian Federation."
  
  
  
  Supplying weapons, who would ever dream that anybody is supplying weapons, "trainers", financial resources, intelligence, managementto the warring factions. It is an out and out impossibility.