How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

**panama hat** · 09-02-2021, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by Backspin

Gorbachev , Yeltsin, Putin term 1 and Medvedev all tried everything they could to make a proper peace deal with Europe.

Good grief . . .

**Backspin** · 09-02-2021, 06:06 AM

Before Putins 2nd term. Before the US coup in Ukraine and Crimea

Russia and Nato must reach deal, Medvedev says | Europe – Gulf News

Moscow: A new arms race will erupt if Russia can't agree with the West about a joint European missile defence programme, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev warned on Tuesdayin his annual address.

A Nato summit this month proposed an alliance missile-shield plan and invited Russia to participate. Questions remain about possible joint command of such a system.

"In the next 10 years, the following alternatives await us — either we reach agreement on missile defence and create a full joint cooperation mechanism, or, if we don't go into a constructive agreement, a new phase of the arms race will begin. And we will have to make a decision on deploying new means of attack," Medvedev told both houses of parliament.

Rogue nations

Medvedev has already endorsed the NATO proposal. Experts from both sides are meeting before the end of the year to consider linking NATO's and Russia's separate systems to provide a shield against incoming missiles from rogue nations, and deliver a report to defence ministers in July.

**sabang** · 09-02-2021, 06:07 AM

Russian dominance and power

Is Nato really scared of this? Is Europe really scared of a Russian invasion? That's just laughable. It isn't Russia encroaching on European borders, it is Nato encroaching on Russia. I think a lot less paranoia and a bit more pragmatism would lead to some more desirable outcomes. But, unless it has a distinct change of heart in foreign policy, this is what the USA fears.

**Backspin** · 09-02-2021, 06:10 AM

^
A bare bones missile defense shield would have been just enough to make peace. The minimum.

And just like with Iran , there are elements in the US who made sure this didn't happen. Because they didn't want peace. Peace would be a problem for the military industry. Instead we have a new cold war. Which is just so much fun for all of them.

**harrybarracuda** · 09-02-2021, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

Is Europe really scared of a Russian invasion? That's just laughable. It isn't Russia encroaching on European borders, it is Nato encroaching on Russia.

Did you somehow miss Russia invading Crimea?

Or did I miss NATO invading Russia?

You plank.

**Backspin** · 09-02-2021, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Did you somehow miss Russia invading Crimea?

Or did I miss NATO invading Russia?

You plank.

The Ukraine had a non alignment provision added to its constitution as part of the terms of independence when the USSR was dissolved.

Russia also negotiated for 17 years to have Ukraine as it's MFN status country under WTO. In other words , there was tariff free trade and capital movement between the 2.

This was all intentionally ripped to shreds when the elected government was overthrown and a US aligned govt took power.

It's a miracle that there wasn't a full fledged war for such brazen moves by the US

**panama hat** · 09-02-2021, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Did you somehow miss Russia invading Crimea?

Originally Posted by Backspin

The Ukraine had a non alignment provision added to its constitution as part of the terms of independence when the USSR was dissolved.

So it was ok for Russia to attack . . . but there must be more:

Originally Posted by Backspin

It's a miracle that there wasn't a full fledged war for such brazen moves by the US

Ah yes - your bogeyman . . . you're as bad as Klondyke and OhOh now, just not as amusing

**sabang** · 09-02-2021, 05:15 PM

What is it with this bare faced lie about Russia invading Crimea? You are fully aware there was no invasion (and neither would there need to be as Russia already had 6 military bases there). There was a Parliamentary Referendum, and as we all knew would be the case there was an overwhelming majority vote in favour of reuniting with Russia, following the events of the Maidan rebellion & Coup.

It was certainly a lot better managed than can be said for the remainder of Ukraine.

**bsnub** · 09-02-2021, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

What is it with this bare faced lie about Russia invading Crimea? You are fully aware there was no invasion (and neither would there need to be as Russia already had 6 military bases there). There was a Parliamentary Referendum, and as we all knew would be the case there was an overwhelming majority vote in favour of reuniting with Russia, following the events of the Maidan rebellion & Coup.

So all of these videos are staged and fake...

It goes on and on. They must have done an epic job faking all this shit.

**sabang** · 09-02-2021, 08:20 PM

Show me the dead bodies. Show me the bombed & mortared villages. Show me the streams of fleeing refugees. Show me the refugee camps that must surely exist after this 'invasion', over the border in Ukraine. Show me the satellite images.

Anyway, Crimea is doing just fine thank you. As for Ukraine, well I guess that's your problem now.

**bsnub** · 09-02-2021, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

Show me the dead bodies. Show me the bombed & mortared villages. Show me the streams of fleeing refugees.

Well it was all clearly displayed, but you choose to deny reality. Why is that? Are you profiting financially?

**harrybarracuda** · 09-02-2021, 09:09 PM

What a fucking twat. Is this a Hoohoo nick or something?

**russellsimpson** · 09-02-2021, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

Is Nato really scared of this? Is Europe really scared of a Russian invasion? That's just laughable. It isn't Russia encroaching on European borders, it is Nato encroaching on Russia. I think a lot less paranoia and a bit more pragmatism would lead to some more desirable outcomes. But, unless it has a distinct change of heart in foreign policy, this is what the USA fears.

Spot on.

Originally Posted by Backspin

The Ukraine had a non alignment provision added to its constitution as part of the terms of independence when the USSR was dissolved.

Russia also negotiated for 17 years to have Ukraine as it's MFN status country under WTO. In other words , there was tariff free trade and capital movement between the 2.

This was all intentionally ripped to shreds when the elected government was overthrown and a US aligned govt took power.

It's a miracle that there wasn't a full fledged war for such brazen moves by the US

Agreed. Did you know that Christa Freeland's mother helped draft that constitution? Which is neither here nor there.

Originally Posted by sabang

What is it with this bare faced lie about Russia invading Crimea? You are fully aware there was no invasion (and neither would there need to be as Russia already had 6 military bases there). There was a Parliamentary Referendum, and as we all knew would be the case there was an overwhelming majority vote in favour of reuniting with Russia, following the events of the Maidan rebellion & Coup

Spot on sabang. Some "polls' at the time suggested at least a ninety percent approval amoung the citizens on the peninsula.

**Klondyke** · 09-02-2021, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by bsnub

Well it was all clearly displayed, but you choose to deny reality.

Weren't also the WMD in Iraq clearly displayed? (Even GWB looked for them in OO, but I do not dare to show here that picture...)

However, at the end of the day, anybody can travel to Crimea - can be booked e.g. with Crimea Travels – Get Authentic Experience

Unlike travelling to Iraq - only in disguise, even if bringing a wooden turkey...

**russellsimpson** · 09-02-2021, 10:03 PM

There is little doubt in my mind that Russian forces were involved in the military action in the east of the country. The rationale was that a majority of people in the region were Russian speaking and, on a practical level, the region provided guaranteed access to the peninsula.

I find it outrageously stupid that the Americans would imagine for a second that the Russians would ever give up a region where their navy headquarters was stationed. I say "Americans" because, had it been up to the Europeans, I think the situation would have resolved quite differently. I understand exactly how the Russians were viewing the evolving situation as an existential threat to their very existence.

Non of what has transpired is in the least surprising. Russia will never give up the Crimea. To insist that they do so is sheer madness. Let's remove the sanctions and get Mother Russian back into the G8. Going forward Russia is not going going to be of any threat. We really have to normalize Russian relations so we can deal more effectively with the increasing Chinese threat.

Anyway, my two pennies worth. Fire away.

**harrybarracuda** · 09-02-2021, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

There is little doubt in my mind that Russian forces were involved in the military action in the east of the country.

"Were"?

**russellsimpson** · 09-02-2021, 10:55 PM

Were involved, are involved.

**sabang** · 09-02-2021, 11:14 PM

Ukraine had dissolved. The elected government was overthrown by a violent rebellion, followed by a coup. There was no more democratic republic, or whatever you might term it, of Ukraine. The new government was illegitimate- appointed at gunpoint.

Thus ended Crimeas fairly brief flirtation with being part of that dysfunctional place (which was done over their heads in the first place)- their Parliament called a Referendum, and was welcomed back to the Russian bear hug. End of. Like a fairy tale, for the Crimeans.

**Backspin** · 09-02-2021, 11:42 PM

Bsnub is a moron. There has been 25,000+ russian troops in Crimea since Catherine the great.

What has the US done since it took Ukraine ? It's doing mock bombing runs on Russian cities along the Russian border. According to the US media

U.S. Air Force B-52s Just Flew A Mock Bombing Run On Russia’s Baltic Fortress

**Backspin** · 10-02-2021, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by bsnub

So all of these videos are staged and fake...

It goes on and on. They must have done an epic job faking all this shit.

Thanks for reminding me to watch this pristine operation again

**Backspin** · 10-02-2021, 05:15 AM

New documentary showing the Russian air base and operations in Syria. Its pretty hardcore

**bsnub** · 10-02-2021, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Backspin

Bsnub is a moron.

Oh my god. One of the biggest imbeciles on TD has the gall to call someone an idiot. Let me remind you that the majority of the forum regularly and routinely points out your brainless idiocy in almost every post you make. You are in no place to call anyone but yourself a moron.

**Backspin** · 10-02-2021, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by bsnub

Oh my god. One of the biggest imbeciles on TD has the gall to call someone an idiot. Let me remind you that the majority of the forum regularly and routinely points out your brainless idiocy in almost every post you make. You are in no place to call anyone but yourself a moron.

Meh. Just some controversial opinions

**bsnub** · 10-02-2021, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Backspin

Just some controversial opinions

Umm no. You are a dimwitted clown and countless people on this forum aside from myself have pointed that out to you.

**panama hat** · 10-02-2021, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Backspin

Meh. Just some controversial opinions

Originally Posted by bsnub

Umm no. You are a dimwitted clown and countless people on this forum aside from myself have pointed that out to you.

This . . .

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