Thread: Will the GOP Force a Govt Shutdown and/or Debt Default?

Originally Posted by koman

What is truly astonishing to me as an outsider is how so many Americans on this board seem to think that just because the GOP is a complete clusterfuck of an opposition party right now, that somehow the Democrats and Obama are providing great leadership and government.

Speaking for myself it is all laughable. I do take a certain pleasure in seeing people like boon squirming. The Republicans are just that much more dislikeable then most Democrats. They are all a bunch of miserable pricks. I mean on the house floor today the Republians had to stop the proceedings to say grace. I mean who does that?

The US is not a democracy it is a corporate oligarchy. Both sides are bought and paid for. America is hopelessly broken and the recovery is no where in site.

Originally Posted by bsnub

The US is not a democracy it is a corporate oligarchy. Both sides are bought and paid for. America is hopelessly broken and the recovery is no where in site.

And that's the sad, sad truth. Recovery is no where in site because it is behind us, in the other direction. Citizens United pretty much cinched that deal. The Pan-Pacific Partnership (PPP) is NAFTA on steroids. Looks like we might just win this race to the bottom.

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Originally Posted by koman

What is truly astonishing to me as an outsider is how so many Americans on this board seem to think that just because the GOP is a complete clusterfuck of an opposition party right now, that somehow the Democrats and Obama are providing great leadership and government. To those of us on the outside it appears a bit like the old choice of being hanged or shot. The Dems "won".. and they are no doubt jubilant about such a humiliating victory over an incredibly sad bunch of losers, but what did they win exactly?.....

Has America reached the point where really bad governance is accepted as good, because it's better than really really bad governance?

^ Nice fiction...

White House: 'No winners' in budget fight

Carney: 'No winners' in budget fight

Nice little speech by Mr. Carney and of course what he said is true. It's what one would expect under the circumstances though. Even the WH is not dumb or arrogant enough to gloat publicly over such a "win".

No doubt the five star brandy is being passed around behind closed doors however. Government and opposition in DC appears to be all about winning and losing points over everything, rather than actually doing the right things to benefit the country overall... regardless of the cost.

Originally Posted by koman

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Originally Posted by koman

What is truly astonishing to me as an outsider is how so many Americans on this board seem to think that just because the GOP is a complete clusterfuck of an opposition party right now, that somehow the Democrats and Obama are providing great leadership and government. To those of us on the outside it appears a bit like the old choice of being hanged or shot. The Dems "won".. and they are no doubt jubilant about such a humiliating victory over an incredibly sad bunch of losers, but what did they win exactly?.....

Has America reached the point where really bad governance is accepted as good, because it's better than really really bad governance?

^ Nice fiction...

White House: 'No winners' in budget fight

Carney: 'No winners' in budget fight

Nice little speech by Mr. Carney and of course what he said is true. It's what one would expect under the circumstances though. Even the WH is not dumb or arrogant enough to gloat publicly over such a "win".

No doubt the five star brandy is being passed around behind closed doors however. Government and opposition in DC appears to be all about winning and losing points over everything, rather than actually doing the right things to benefit the country overall... regardless of the cost.

"Things to benefit the country"...

Like healthcare reform maybe?

A living wage?

Education funding?

Immigration reform?

The Republican party opposes all of these and more which is how they earned the nickname "The Party of NO"...

FreeRepublic.com is experiencing a full core meltdown right now. They are besides themselves with rage hahahahah.

Also:

Well, what can one say? You got a Statist Media pumping the Kool-Aid into the LIV's every night effectively brainwashing them with entitlement promises coupled with boners like John Boner and crowd. If anything, the Tea Party will get stronger as a result of Obama's thug tactics...

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, what can one say? You got a Statist Media pumping the Kool-Aid into the LIV's every night effectively brainwashing them with entitlement promises coupled with boners like John Boner and crowd. If anything, the Tea Party will get stronger as a result of Obama's thug tactics...

Tea Party stronger?! Sure, in Opposite-Land

Tea Party's Popularity Reaches New Low, Poll Finds

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Like healthcare reform maybe?

Obamacare is only about forcing money into the hands of the pharma and medical insurance companies. Don't forget, he hired a Big Pharma lobbyist straight away, who wrote Obamacare, and then ran straight back to a big fat pharm job getting muchos pats on the back by her ex and current employers for doing over the people even further. Not to say that the GOP are anything special, they would rather see a kid die than give them free medical, but there is nothign special about obama and this bullshit. It is just another example of his staff, comprised of former lobbyists, chucking money are their former employers hopeful of a big job when they quit working for the state.

DO you agree?

Originally Posted by Gilbert

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Like healthcare reform maybe?

Obamacare is only about forcing money into the hands of the pharma and medical insurance companies. Don't forget, he hired a Big Pharma lobbyist straight away, who wrote Obamacare, and then ran straight back to a big fat pharm job getting muchos pats on the back by her ex and current employers for doing over the people even further. Not to say that the GOP are anything special, they would rather see a kid die than give them free medical, but there is nothign special about obama and this bullshit. It is just another example of his staff, comprised of former lobbyists, chucking money are their former employers hopeful of a big job when they quit working for the state.

DO you agree?

Well, this poster certainly agrees with the statement that actions speak louder than words. Obama said at the outset he would fundamentally transform America and his actions definitely don't belay his words.

But as been oft said, they're all crooks:

Kentucky Kickback - Senate Budget Deal Includes $3 Billion For Dam Project In McConnell's Home State

A proposal to end the government shutdown and avoid default orchestrated by Republican Leader Mitch McConnell and Democratic Leader Harry Reid includes a nearly $3 billion earmark for a Kentucky project.


Language in a draft of the McConnell-Reid deal (see page 13, section 123) provided to WFPL News shows a provision that increases funding for the massive Olmsted Dam Lock in Paducah, Ky., from $775 million to nearly $2.9 billion.
The dam is considered an important project for the state and region in regards to water traffic along the Ohio River.


AsThe Courier-Journal’s James Bruggers reported in 2011, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said they needed about $2.1 billion for the locks due to “stop and go funding.”


http://wfpl.org/post/mcconnell-reid-...BKBuQs.twitter


The MoFo sold out for a goddamn Dam...

Originally Posted by Gilbert

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Like healthcare reform maybe?

Obamacare is only about forcing money into the hands of the pharma and medical insurance companies. Don't forget, he hired a Big Pharma lobbyist straight away, who wrote Obamacare, and then ran straight back to a big fat pharm job getting muchos pats on the back by her ex and current employers for doing over the people even further. Not to say that the GOP are anything special, they would rather see a kid die than give them free medical, but there is nothign special about obama and this bullshit. It is just another example of his staff, comprised of former lobbyists, chucking money are their former employers hopeful of a big job when they quit working for the state.

DO you agree?

No, I do not agree. While the ACA is FAR from perfect, it's the first health care reform in decades and a big step in the right direction.

The average American has a lot to gain and little to lose from the Affordable Care Act.

While some groups benefit more than others, all Americans will benefit from the new rights and protections like guaranteed coverage of pre-existing conditions and the elimination of gender discrimination.

Health insurance costs may go up for the wealthy, but with new rules in place requiring insurance companies to invest 90% of premiums collected into care the quality of insurance just got a lot better.

Thanks to the ACA tens of millions of uninsured will get access to affordable quality health insurance through the marketplace.

Over half of uninsured Americans can get free or low cost health insurance using their State's Health Insurance Marketplace

Medicaid is expanded up to 15.9 million men, women and children below 138% of the poverty level.

Small businesses can get tax credits for up to 50% of their employees health insurance premium costs.

Young Adults can stay on parents plan until 26.

All coverage starting after 2014 must include new preventative services and essential health benefits.

What funny right now is that due to the right wing propaganda machine, many Americans don't like "Obamacare" but they like the ACA.

Have you seen this Jimmy Kimmel bit?

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Health insurance costs may go up for the wealthy, but with new rules in place requiring insurance companies to invest 90% of premiums collected into care the quality of insurance just got a lot better.

Costs went up for the middle class - who you trying to fool and he said we could keep our own doctor.

It's a train wreck, dude and you've been brainwashed to the max that this sorry POS legislation is 'good for the people'...



BT Barnham said it right - "Sucker born every minute"

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

The average American has a lot to gain and little to lose from the Affordable Care Act.

While some groups benefit more than others

You miss the point. Sure it will be beneficial for some people, but the group that will benefit most are the shareholders of the medical companies, and it is for them that is was created. It would be a lot better to use legislation to clip the wings of these firms, standardise all costs at a realistic level comparable with the rest of the world, stop their monopoly and most importantly have a substantial increase of free at point of use healthcare for all, rich or poor. All Obama has knowingly done is taken money which could have actually been spent on healthcare for people and handed it straight to his sponsors. Now I know, having read some of your posts, you will not understand that obama is a crook just like the GOP are, but he is, and this is what he has done, and this is why.

The thing is, and this is a sad indictment of the US, a government acting for it's people should really just tell the FED to go spin, revoke it, and write $2 trillion that is held by the fed off of the books. After all, it is all fake made up money, so no real need to pay it back. However, what will actually happen is that the government will screw the pension pots; they've blown all the pension money on crazy neocon marketing campaigns (aka, wars) and that will never get paid. A lot easier for them to tell the population their pension is gone than to tell the people who fund political campaigns their cash cow is over.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

BT Barnham said it right - "Sucker born every minute"

It's PT Barnum and he never said that. Are you ever going to be right about anything?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Costs went up for the middle class - who you trying to fool and he said we could keep our own doctor.

I am middle class... My premiums went down 3 months ago... and my whole family still sees the same doctor....

am I missing something boon?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

You got Fox news pumping the Kool-Aid into the LIV's every night effectively brainwashing them

Fixed that for ya!

Anyway, whilst we are all enjoying the political side show, the democrats saying that they won and the GOP are scoundrels, I think you all are forgetting the real facts about this.

The debt ceiling is a fabrication. It's a lie and a ruse used by politicians to kick the can down the road hoping that the USD does not collapse under their watch. Why? Because for every dollar in existence, their is interest owed on it, and as such, there is no choice but to keep the debt rising because lets not forget.... the people who hold the debt want their interest and principal paid. So, by calling for the "debt ceiling" to be raised, it is just admitting that the USD will collapse as soon as Asia stop importing from the US. To stop the fall, the US needs to increase manufacturing by 50%, and all of that needs to be exported.....how likely is that?

Arm yourselves with the facts; the USD is a house of cards and all this last couple of weeks has done is put some more cards on the top hoping they will not topple. A giant game of jenga with obama taking more from the foundation and balancing it on the top.

Money is debt. Debt has interest that needs to be paid with money that is therefore created to pay the debt, that then has interest to be paid on it.....and on they go.

What's the answer? If you have any funds in USD get it the fuck out, and quick. You might make some short term gains, but they will be in USD which will be worthless. The Asian economist are thinking it will be 2014 when it finally collapses, which will likely be held off by the US attacking Iran to keep peoples eye off of the scam.

Originally Posted by Gilbert

The Asian economist are thinking it will be 2014 when it finally collapses

Bring it on. I have my spam and rifle ready.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

04-10-2013

The douche bag party will back down, no balls and no support.

BM you have a tendency to pick the looser sides.

Told you so.

Actually I used to like the ole Republicans (Reagan years), but now they have lost touch to reality and to the hard working american people. Then again, there are no more hard workin american people. Its either rich or poor.
Last year I visited the U.S. What shocked me the most was the high cost of living.
Most fruits and vegs. came from S.America (double price then Europe), what the fuc* are american farmers up to.oe
I'am sure the U.S. will get back on their feet. When the chinese worker earns as much as Joe Blow from Kansas, the big Co. will bring back their slave labours to the U.S. But this time the slaves are not only black.....

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Then again, there are no more hard workin american people. Its either rich or poor.

The poor dont work hard?

Originally Posted by bsnub

Bring it on. I have my spam and rifle ready.

Ahh mate, it's not spam, and it's not airy fairy bullshit, despite what the propaganda rags such as the Economist pump out to keep confidence high. Feel free to point out where my summation is wrong though. If your currency is created out of debt, 97% of it created by banks rather than the government, are you contesting that the debt that has been created does not have interest owing on it? When you accept this, you realise that for every dollar these banks create, another needs to be created to pay off the interest, which then needs another one created to pay that interest. Even if they cancelled out all of the created money and wipe it off of the spread sheet, there would still be sat a huge pile of debt that would need to be paid with no money to pay it.

Here's a little ditty from Forbes for example - sometimes a crack in the wall of false promise sneaks out.

Apocalypse Soon: The U.S. Dollar's Grim Future -- And How To Prepare For It
The U.S. dollar’s predicament can be summed up in three observations:

The U.S. balance of payments deficits have multiplied three-fold since the 1980s, and now typically run between 2.5 and 5 percent of GDP.
Manufacturing’s share of GDP is down to 11 percent.
Services do little exporting.

Taken together, these facts spell doom for the U.S. dollar. Short of attempting – highly unrealistically – to increase its manufactured output by nearly 50 percent and to sell the increased output abroad, America can’t dig itself out of the hole — at least not if it sticks with free trade. The ultimate outcome will surely be a total collapse of the dollar. And in that event, as the former top Reagan administration economic policymaker Paul Craig Roberts has pointed out, shoppers in Walmart will feel they are in Neiman Marcus.

The world’s kingpin currency for more than half a century, the dollar has survived in recent years thanks only to the “charity” of strangers: export-minded East Asian governments, principally those of Japan and China, have bought ever larger amounts of U.S. Treasury bonds to keep their own currencies low. For the East Asians, the attraction is that they can continue for a few more years to hollow out the American manufacturing base. But elastic bands can be stretched only so far and this one is near breaking point.

Of course, conventional wisdom holds that it is other currencies that are in trouble. The current issue of the Economist magazine, for instance, cites various superficial problems elsewhere in the world to suggest that the dollar is headed higher. Entirely missing is any reference to international trade. In the long run the trade figures will determine the dollar’s fate – and the Economist’s failure to allude to them illustrates the sort of air-headed thinking that makes East Asians question (discreetly, of course) Western sanity.

Let me fill in the gaps: in the latest twelve months America ran a current account deficit of $426 billion. By contrast the Eurozone earned a surplus of $208 billion. Even Japan has been showing surprising strength, with a surplus of $56 billion (not bad in any circumstances but particularly impressive given the continuing constraints and adjustments consequent on the Tohoku earthquake).

The key question now is precisely when will the East Asians pull the rug from under the dollar? Any Westerner who tells you he knows is either delusional or mendacious. Not only have East Asian policymakers always kept their monetary policy cards close to their chests, but they are adept at acting out carefully choreographed little dramas intended to throw everyone off the scent.

Nonetheless it is time to take a stand. My bet is that within five years the dollar will have gone the way of the pound sterling, if not the Weimar papiermark (that’s the one that people needed wheelbarrows to take to the grocery store).

Some weeks ago I pointed out that my share recommendations of last year had worked out well and added that I would offer some new investment suggestions in the not-too-distant future. Consider this is the fulfillment of that promise. I suggest that investors diversify by buying some yen and/or euros. Of course, the dollar may well continue to defy the law of gravity for a while longer but let’s see how things have shaped up by, say, the end of 2014.

In the meantime if you can find a way to put some money on deposit in euros or yen (the dollar buys 100.1 yen and 0.77 euro at today’s exchange rate), that would be a good strategy. Otherwise you might consider exchange-traded currency funds such as FXY and FXE.

SOURCE


By the way, did you notice the rally of the markets? A lot of big investors made a huge amount of money from the shut down..... just sayin...