Printable View
Back on topic:
Since Obama already has a lock on the Worst President in History you'd think he'd stop digging an even deeper hole exposing his sheer ignorance.
His impotent 'sham across the bow' for example shows that not only have the leaks weakened the value of any strike now, but telling your enemy that you're only going to launch a few missiles and then hit the golf course won't do any good. But he doesn't realize that...:mid:
I tend to agree booner- really this faux macho posturing only goes to show our collective impotence in the situation. We are not going to invade- thats the last thing we want. Neither are we gonna do some kind of 'shock and awe' exercise. Neither do we necessarily even want regime change now- this out of no love for Assad and his inconvenient alliance with Iran, rather that the only real alternative that looms is much, much worse- Sunni fundamentalism, mass carnage, and quite likely a breakaway Kurdish state. Wouldn't Turkey and daddy Israel just love that? All that is being proposed is a bee sting, a rap on the knuckles for being 'naughty boys'. It will not affect realities on the ground, or the balance of power. Our people miscalculated the combined strength of the opposition to Assad, it's as simple as that really. Mainly because there never was any combined opposition to speak of- just different dissident groups, each with their own separate reasons for opposing the regime, and their own agendas. But a Kurdish separatist, a secular pro-democracy activist, and a fundamentalist Sunni probably hate each other more than they hate Assad, who represents the order of things now- an order that, frankly, wasn't too bad before this rebellion and still isn't now. Life goes on, pretty much as normal in much of Syria.
But 'we' (whatever that means these days) can still damage the Assad regime, it's standing and credibility among the very people we want on our side- the middle and professional classes, the seculars and moderates. The people that make Syria function basically- and it is far from a third world country. This by credibly showing the Assad regime did lob gas on the outskirts of Damascus. Something that remains not just unproven, but less credible by the day. Whether that is because there never was any substance to these allegations, or because we have totally botched the communication aspect thus far, is really a matter of opinion. Put it this way- if there does prove to be substance to these allegations, we have handled it like rank amateurs.
The latest in this farcical parade was John Kerry saying, in his best 'trust me I'm amerkin' voice, that they 'know' the shells were lobbed from regime controlled areas. Well, thats nice- but it is also at odds with the allegation floating around a couple of days ago that they knew the actual military base the gas attack emanated from, one of three said to contain chemical munitions. If they really do think they are on to something, then they have handled it like eejuts. They are contradicting themselves left right and centre, losing their little remaining credibility with it. Contradictory claims, backed by no evidence- even the people that want to believe, are full of doubt now.
The only thing now is to let the UN do it's work. They are on the ground there, in fact they were already staying in Damascus at the Four Seasons just a few kilometres away, when these attacks occurred. (to investigate a previous gas attack, that appears to have almost certainly been the work of AQ). But what will actually happen is anyone's guess, given the clowns in charge. Of course if they know it's a crock of shit, they may just choose to bomb to destroy evidence or muddy the waters.
^Why do anything? We've no dog in this fight? Do we? Want to do something? Send medical aid and lots of doctor's...now that's positive intervention.
If it is credibly shown they did lob gas, I'm not against a rap on the knuckles. What real difference will it make? None really- maybe a deterrent effect, from it happening again?
Let me ask you this Sabang, if someone lobbed gas on you and you're family and friends, would they need bombs in retaliation or would you need medical assistance? Which one would render the greatest assistance?
What would you want? If I were in a position to make such a decision, I would be sending in the "Red Cross and all other medical supplies and doctors needed." I believe that's the message that makes the greatest practical impact and the message the world needs to send.
Taking sides solves nothing from a humanitarian pov. that is what we're discussing here innit?
1- I would need medical help
then
2- I would want retaliation
Pretty straightforward?
From a humanitarian perspective, the side we are taking is only making things much worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ltnt
"my enemies enemy is my friend" is an utter lie, foisted on mankind by charlatans.
Well America has sneezed and Oz has caught the cold ............ again .
In what manner?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mid
...the only one 'sneezing' is Obama...:mid:
what do we want?
a haven for Al Qaeda or a ruthless dictator who we have and can do business with?
Australia endorses possible US strike on Syria | JPost | Israel NewsQuote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Obviously the definition of 'ruthless dictator' is a subjective one.Quote:
Originally Posted by good2bhappy
And, too, turfing out Saddam, Quadaffi, Mubarack etc was probably, in retrospect, the wrong moves...:chitown:
Wonder what the political 'behind the scenes' activity prompted that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mid
After much pondering i have decided the best thing to do is to leave the A-rabs to it.
That way, our children in the civilized world, will have less religous lunatics to wage a defensive war against when the dust finally settles in that shithole region.
I suggest we just keep supplying whichever side is losing in Syria to keep the fire burning, nice one Primo eh ?
send in an assassination squad to take out the man who gave the command
Assad's brother
400 plus children?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
maybe the word was too mild
not sure if you're being sincere, but IMO this is exactly something that should be addressed by countries in the region. of course it's complicated due to the schism, but it's hard to argue it isn't more complicated when non muslim nations start getting involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by dobella
quite right mao, we should just let the serbian..... sorry alawites get on with what they do best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mao say dung
You have to feel sorry for the Syrian people. First they get gassed by their own people. Now they get help by getting shelled by depleted uranium. And then comes Israel and takes their land.
I think he got buried by his own WH staff public calls for actions. That Kerry idiot has been a WH embarrassment and just dug the hole for him and everyone around him, including the POTUS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
I think he does, that's the problem, but he is surrounded by idiots, war hawks like Kerry and Israeli spies setting a trap for him to fall. He can see it but he is in a corner and can't do much. This little Syria event has the possibility to break the "WH" for good like it did with Carter Iran hostage situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
^
Sooner the better and the Face Loss will be heavy.
How do you pronounce Schadenfreude?
the funny thing is that Syria was probably a test for Iran,
if the WH falls, and I think it will now, Iran will have won again
the best alternative now is for the POTUS to go into full war mode, alone, without the French :rofl: and send troops on the ground to be slaughtered.
it's a big one, that's why having fools like GW Bush as POTUS can be a good thing when your dirty ops in foreign countries fuck up, you can all blame it on the idiot in the room (GW Bush in that case) and get away with itQuote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
with Obama, can't do that
Folks like these?Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
National Security Adviser Susan Rice, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, Secretary of State John Kerry, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and Sandy Winnefeld, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
All second or third string players...:mid:
I think his only political exit is to fire Kerry on the spot for sedition and put all the blame on him for being too proactive,
he could kill 2 birds with 1 stone with that one,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
the president hasn't made any decisions yet...and no one on this board knows what (if anything) he's going to do.
that said, various news organizations are reporting that the UN team left syria a few hours ago...ahead of schedule. while that could mean any number of things, i have to admit it doesn't bode well.
Doesn't bode well for whom pray tell? :chitown:Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazzquite right mao, we should just let the serbian..... sorry alawites get on with what they do best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mao say dung
Seems like there are always other places where there is killing going on where nothing is done to stop it. There are dictators all over the world supported by the western world but on the day they go against the western world they too will be labeled the evil ones when all along it was a collaboration.
Anyways, if they are going to do something they should go after Assad and any other high ranking people. Assad should die now. And the rest of the dictators out there should be killed off through assassinations. Why wait for the inevitable. If the US believes in democracy, it's got to stop the hypocrisy.
"I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers... Now watch this drive."Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Ring any bells?
Why does Foxnews continue to speak of 1,400+ fatalities in this gas incident, while every other news station of the world reported a little over 300?
Because that is the figure that the American government has come out with but presented no evidence whatsoever for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainfall
I can't accept this explanation. Foxnews is privately owned media and not a government channel, it is even extremely critical of the current government, isn't it? :rolleyes:
Ask hazz.
He will no doubt say that sometimes you just have to lie your face off in order to "help" people.
Because that's what the American military does best.
OK, well how about this then. Foxnews is the channel of war hawks and saying that over 1400 Syrians have been murdered in a chemical attack sounds better than saying 300 were killed,it promotes the war more as fox news like to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainfall
Mao, everyone lies some more than others. sometimes intentionally and other times unintentionally through self deception.... even you mao and doubless me from time to time, though I do try not to :)
I rember a time when a whole town of Kurd's were killed by nerve gas. The kurds along with their little helpers from iran were fighting the 'legitimate' 'secular' government of the day run by some chap called Saddam husain. he said I didn't do it; it was the Iranians gassing their own side to make me look bad. and his frends in Washington said their intelligence. with time it became very clear that the iraqi government had done the deed.
Now we have syria, people fighting the 'legitimate' secular' government get gassed with nerve gas. the government says the rebbles did it to make them look bad and their friends in Moscow agree. Personally I would say that we are looking at history repeating itself, after all should we really be trusting what the Syrians and Russians say any more than the Americans?
from my perspect all I see is a lot people on this thread screaming their ideologies with little care for whats going on. The conformation bias you chaps are demonstrating with the sources you are using is breath taking. In the same posts we can see you correctly rejecting an unreliable source of information you don't like and then blindly accepting an equally unreliable source of information you do like...
Rather like the tea baggers, you have chosen your echo chambers that that's all you want to listen too it is very disheartening.
whilst the hypocrisy that pragmatism and self interest brings diplomacy and international politics is very unpleasant and dirty.... it is nothing conspired that generated by the blind ideolog.
Syria is a mess, there are no simple answers. if any of the sides fighting for power is able to or allowed to win they will implment a blood bath. that assad regeme have track record and their opponents have demonstrated that they are probably not much better. The option to leave them alone to kill each other is no more legitimate that it was for Bosnia, but what to do. military action today with or without security council authorization will fail, as it would simply create a winning side with no plan as to how to protect civilians in the post war 'peace'. But what are the alternatives to military action? As I said its a mess any anyone promoting simple solutions is most likly to be lying or stupid or may be both.
You mean Nobel peace prize winning Obama.:mid:Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimoBecause that is the figure that the American government has come out with but presented no evidence whatsoever for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainfall
So now Fox News is a shill for Obama.... ?
Sounds like you are a war fan considering all you clowns do is watch Fox News all day...Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimoOK, well how about this then. Foxnews is the channel of war hawks and saying that over 1400 Syrians have been murdered in a chemical attack sounds better than saying 300 were killed,it promotes the war more as fox news like to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainfall
:chitown:
I don't see everyone totally disagreeing with eachother on this one. The biggest right wing mouth piece at Fox news is opposed to any military action in Syria. Sean Hannity wants to help Assad.Quote:
Originally Posted by hazz
What pisses me off is when posters compare this to the Iraq war and they also talk about the Iraq/Iran war without realizing that the cold war was going full bore at the time.
oh and the picture...oooohhhh ahhhh, Chamberlain was a Nazi now ?
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2013/08/5545.jpg
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
Hazz is actually making sense....:chitown: