The Gun Issue thread

[Boon Mee]

The madness surrounding gun control knows no bounds. In the example below we see a protester telling us she'd rather die than use a gun to defend herself:

During a rally at the Georgia state capital in Atlanta against so-called “stand your ground” gun laws, one protester declared that “self-defense is not an option.”
A CBS Atlanta reporter asked, “What if someone is trying to kill you?” – to which the woman replied, “they’ll just have to kill me.”

Unbelievable

[hazz]

Well give how little respect that american culture has for human life, I am not surprised that you find people who would rather die than kill another person insane.

but you see there are these christians called quakers, they got their understanding of christianity by reading the bribe, rather than watching TVangelists. Simply they all killing as murder.
They would rather die at the hand of a murderer, rather than condemn their sole to hell by defending their life; and they have made this choice of numerous occasions. Ive know quite a few of these people and I find them perfectly sane, honest, principled and brave people. which is a lot more than I can say about people so scared they cannot walk out their front door without a gun in their pants

[sabang]

In the example below we see a protester telling us she'd rather die than use a gun to defend herself:

And in some example above, a protester told us that if they wanted his gun, they would have to pry it from his cold, dead hands.
Examples of hyperbole are of minimal consequence in the great gun debate. People who employ this tactic professionally term it 'flack'.

[Jesus Jones]

The US government and media are reporting many shootings of late. Has a patsy been used in some of these cases? Additionally, is it coincidental the FEDs are stockpiling ammo with the deficit the US is in. What are they worried about? Banning guns or wanting to is highly coincidental to me regardless of your opinion of guns. The timing is highly conspicuous.

[Norton]

The US government and media are reporting many shootings of late.

The timing is highly conspicuous.

No doubt media is reporting more. Can't be bothered to see if there are more. It's all about viewership. Since the Newtown shooting, media have been having a field day. Timing not overly conspicuous to me given the Newtown shooting and the highly decisive anti/pro gun debate.

Has a patsy been used in some of these cases? Additionally, is it coincidental the the FEDs are stockpiling ammo with the deficit the US is in. What are they worried about?

Anything is possible.

[Ozcol]

I was watching a show today on the box about the NRA, There was a protest march and the usual fist waving ranting NRA officials giving speeches ,but the thing that caught my eye was a sign carried by one of the protesters and after listening to the drivel from the NRA boss I thought it was appropriate--No Reasonable Argument.

[sabang]

Who are these, erm, 'Feds'? FBI/FRB/DHS/DoD/NSA/ATF/DEA/CIA/Cops/Sheriffs/National guard/County dogcatchers? Are the multifaceted arms of the federal government combined in one massive conspiracy? Gosh, I'd better buy a gun then, preferably an AR-15.

Not sure why these 'Feds' need to go buy ammo from high street gun shops though, at inflated retail prices- why not just borrow it off the army? or invade a bullet factory.

[hazz]

The US government and media are reporting many shootings of late. Has a patsy been used in some of these cases? Additionally, is it coincidental the the FEDs are stockpiling ammo with the deficit the US is in. What are they worried about? Banning guns or wanting to is highly coincidental to me regardless of your opinion of guns. The timing is highly conspicuous.

maybe they are worried that the NRA, with gits not inconsiderable help; are going to start a revolution, bring down the government and turn america in to a heavily armed libertarian utopia like somalia or the north west frontier

[pseudolus]

Lovely little exposure care of Sarah Palin.


From her facebook
D.C.: Cut the... | Facebook

D.C.: Cut the Drama. Do Your Job.

Americans are sick and tired of yet another ginned-up crisis. D.C. needs to grow up, get to work, and live within its means. The real economic Armageddon looming before us is our runaway debt, not the sequester, which the President advocated for and signed into law and is now running around denouncing because he never had any genuine intention of reining in his reckless spending.

Remember that this sequestration deal came about because of the long debt ceiling standoff in the summer of 2011. It wasn’t the ideal outcome for anyone, but it did at least include real deficit reduction of about $110 billion per year for 10 years, which is still nowhere near enough to close our massive deficit. Keep in mind that since the sequester passed, the President has already hit American families and small business owners with his tax increases, or “more revenue” as he likes to call it. The American public doesn’t want tax increases; we want government to rein in its overspending.

If we can’t stomach modest cuts that would lower federal spending by a mere 0.3% per year out of a current federal budget of $3.6 trillion, then we might as well signal to the whole world that we have no serious intention of dealing with our debt problem.

If we are going to wet our proverbial pants over 0.3% in annual spending cuts when we’re running up trillion dollar annual deficits, then we’re done. Put a fork in us. We’re finished. We’re going to default eventually and that’s why the feds are stockpiling bullets in case of civil unrest.

If we ARE serious about putting our fiscal house in order, then let’s stop the hysterics, tighten our belts, and take our medicine.

- Sarah Palin

[Mid]

stop the hysterics

After you ma'am

[Boon Mee]

A shocking discovery!

In the Washington Post,

For some, lessons of boyhood include learning to shoot and hunt.

Imagine that! Just like any other survival skill like swimming, a knowledge of gun safety and hunting skills are important part of growing up.

[Jesus Jones]

Joe Biden recommends shots for woman.
Joe Biden says women need a shot gun not an ar15 this is why it is the other way around. - YouTube

[Boon Mee]

The 'gun issue' in the States has gotten completely out of hand. To wit:

"A Maryland kid chewed his breakfast pastry into the shape of a gun at school and wound up with two days suspension.

7-Year-Old Joshua was suspended this morning from Park Elementary School in Brooklyn Park. Joshua says he was eating a pastry during snack time and trying to shape it into a mountain, the teacher said it looked like a gun and took him to the principal's office. Joshua's parents were called, he has been suspended for two days. Joshua's father says it's ridiculous since no one was threatened or harmed by the pastry."

Are These People Completely Insane Or What?

[Norton]

Believe that link is broke. "404: The webpage cannot be found."


7-Year-Old Suspended, Teacher Says He Shaped Pastry into Gun - WBFF FoxBaltimore - Featured

[Boon Mee]

Believe that link is broke. "404: The webpage cannot be found."


7-Year-Old Suspended, Teacher Says He Shaped Pastry into Gun - WBFF FoxBaltimore - Featured

Try again:

http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/01/po...-gets-suspende

[Boon Mee]

You reckon the gun-goobers want to strip you of these guns too?



"Take drinking games to another level with this high speed spirit delivery system. Want a shot that goes straight to the head? Try the Alcohol Shot Gun -- fill the cartridge with the spirit of your choice, aim and shoot for an intense booze experience.Ideal for stag and hen nights, parties or any time when no one needs to drive. The Alcohol Shot gun can be filled with up to 41ml (1 ½ oz) of vodka, whiskey, gin, or virtually any spirit, which can then be shot out at high speed into the drinker's mouth.Half the fun is catching as much as you can, so it may get messy!"

[Boon Mee]

The 'gun issue' in the States has gotten completely out of hand. To wit:

"A Maryland kid chewed his breakfast pastry into the shape of a gun at school and wound up with two days suspension.

7-Year-Old Joshua was suspended this morning from Park Elementary School in Brooklyn Park. Joshua says he was eating a pastry during snack time and trying to shape it into a mountain, the teacher said it looked like a gun and took him to the principal's office. Joshua's parents were called, he has been suspended for two days. Joshua's father says it's ridiculous since no one was threatened or harmed by the pastry."

Are These People Completely Insane Or What?

Follow up - the kid's punishment for accidently eating a strawberry tart in such a way as to make it vaguely resemble a gun while trying to make it resemble a mountain: two days suspension.



Here is a school that might ban itself

Ripped from here

[Boon Mee]

What's next?

#LiberalSchoolPolicies "High Capacity" Pop Tart boxes must be confiscated; no one needs that many pop tarts.

[barbaro]

The 'gun issue' in the States has gotten completely out of hand. To wit:

"A Maryland kid chewed his breakfast pastry into the shape of a gun at school and wound up with two days suspension.

7-Year-Old Joshua was suspended this morning from Park Elementary School in Brooklyn Park. Joshua says he was eating a pastry during snack time and trying to shape it into a mountain, the teacher said it looked like a gun and took him to the principal's office. Joshua's parents were called, he has been suspended for two days. Joshua's father says it's ridiculous since no one was threatened or harmed by the pastry."

Are These People Completely Insane Or What?

In addition to the pastry by a 7 year old there are these:

at least two young children in the Washington, D.C. region have been suspended for pointing their fingers like guns, and a 10-year-old in Alexandria, Va., was arrested by police for showing a toy gun to others on his school bus. In Pennsylvania, a 5-year-old was suspended for talking to classmates about shooting her Hello Kitty gun that blows bubbles.


Entire: Maryland second-grader suspended for chewing pastry into ‘gun’ shape | Nation & World | The Seattle Times

[Jesus Jones]

Why is the DHS stockpiling ammo? To reduce stock perhaps and raise the price as demand will increase.

I guess if they can't push a ban on guns, they'll try and find another way to combat this fictional issue!

[Jesus Jones]

555, training they said!


Something strange is going on. Federal non-military agencies have bought two billion rounds of ammunition in the last 10 months. The Obama Administration says that federal law enforcement agents need the ammunition for “mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions.”

Radio show host Mark Levin is suspicious.

He commented:

To provide some perspective, experts estimate that at the peak of the Iraq war American troops were firing around 5.5 million rounds per month. At that rate, the [Department of Homeland Security] is armed now for a 24-year Iraq war. A 24-year Iraq war! I’m going to tell you what I think is going on. I don’t think domestic insurrection. Law enforcement and national security agencies, they play out multiple scenarios. … I’ll tell you what I think they’re simulating: the collapse of our financial system, the collapse of our society and the potential for widespread violence, looting, killing in the streets, because that’s what happens when an economy collapses. I suspect that just in case our fiscal situation, our monetary situation, collapses, and following it the civil society collapses, that is the rule of law, they want to be prepared. I know why the government’s arming up: It’s not because there’s going to be an insurrection; it’s because our society is unraveling.

Feds Buy Two Billion Rounds of Ammunition

[sabang]

Must be a bit hard to count two billion rounds.
So where were they bought?
When?
By what agencies?

[hazz]

What is it about internet and gullible fools? So americans are supposed to be afraid because the government's buying 2 billion bullets, some people even think the government has actually taken delivery of these bullets.

Now this would be a matter of concern if there were any truth to these stories that seem to have got plastered around the internet. but for some reason never with any details the the deals done.... which got me suspicious.

I cannot look into the two billion claim, because there is no order for 2 billion bullets; the figure is derived from multiple contracts that the goverment has agreed. So I will look inot the truth of the claims for 450 million bullets for DHS/ICE, its a decent wedge of the total being claimed.


The contract has been awarded to a company called ATK who have rather nicely given details of their win in a press release:

ATK WINS FIVE-YEAR, INDEFINITE DELIVERY/INDEFINITE QUANTITY CONTRACT FOR .40 CALIBER AMMUNITION FROM DHS, ICE
ADDITIONAL .40 CALIBER AMMUNITION CONTRACT WITH 450 MILLION ROUND POTENTIAL DEMONSTRATES ATK'S LEADERSHIP IN AMMUNITION MANUFACTURING
Mar 12, 2012

ANOKA, Minn., March 12, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- ATK (NYSE: ATK) announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

ATK was the incumbent and won the contract with its HST bullet, which has proven itself in the field. The special hollow point effectively passes through a variety of barriers and holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration.

"We are proud to extend our track record as the prime supplier of .40 caliber duty ammunition for DHS, ICE," said Ron Johnson, President of ATK's Security and Sporting group. "The HST is a proven design that will continue to serve those who keep our borders safe."

ATK will produce the ammunition at the Federal Cartridge Company facility in Anoka, Minn. Deliveries are expected to begin in June.

ATK is an aerospace, defense, and commercial products company with operations in 22 states, Puerto Rico, and internationally. News and information can be found on the Internet at www.atk.com.

You will notice that the DHS/ICE have not agreed how many bullets they will buy or when. They have a greed to buy all of their .40 ammunition from, ATK at an agreed price.

The DHA/ICE gain buy being able to buy ammunition as and when the need it without having to go though the full federal purchasing process with each purchase, a purchase at a known predictable price.... allowing them to budget more accurately and in principle allowing them to negotiate decent discount.

This contract does not give any evidence regarding how many bullets that DHS/ICE will purchase. it does not provide any evidence that the DHS/ICE are stockpiling in preparation for the collapse of american society, which is what its being used for by the tin foil brigade.

To do that you need to get figures actual purchases and deliveries. But then that requires effort and might not provide the evidence you want. So its simply easier and simpler for the likes of Mark Levin to make shit up, because he knows his target audience are gullible fools what will drink up anything he says, won't they jesus

[Boon Mee]

^
Might have to do with the general feeling among Americans that they cannot trust their government. Good example was the standoff yesterday re drone attacks on Americans on American soil.

[hazz]

You mean that crap that the president is able to order drone strikes on americans on american soil.

given that before drones; helicopters were often the preferred vehical to launch rocket attacks, that helicopters are widely used by US domestic agencies for decades without a single rocket attack being carried on an american within the US. Citing the possible use of drones by domestic agencies hardly constitutes evidence that they are about to start or have the authority to do so.