Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but it shows Australia's gun homicide rates from 1915 to 2005, showing when various gun control measures were introduced.
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Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but it shows Australia's gun homicide rates from 1915 to 2005, showing when various gun control measures were introduced.
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
...once again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mid
Indeed- so it is not surprising that a vast majority of gun owners support background checks before purchasing a deadly weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Earl
Indeed and I also support background checks and licensing and registrations, but in conjunction with proper enforcement.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Like I said earlier current law is not being enforced. The problem lies with the judiciary and a soft .attidute towards criminals. Bring back the pilory and public hangings.
The popular liberal catch and release system is a failure.
Again, all the emotional kneejerk legislation does is distract you from where the real problem reside; which is a corrupt political system and even more corrupt judiciary system.
Screaming away about gun control is ridiculous.
One cannot saves lives by continuing current legislation, one cannot saves lives by permitting more firearms to be in circulation.
One can only save lives by reducing legalised ownership of firearms.
From the Boston Globe;-
In 2010, the last year for which complete numbers are available, the number of gun deaths by suicide in the United States outnumbered homicides 19,392 to 11,078. If you add up all American gun deaths that year, including accidents, 3 out of 5 people who died from gunshot wounds took their own lives. Those figures are not an anomaly: With just a few exceptions, the majority of gun deaths in the United States have been self-inflicted every year since at least 1920. This is a startling fact, and one that forces us to realize that, no matter what we may believe about the Second Amendment, the debate over how to reduce the death toll from guns is, to a great extent, a debate about suicide prevention.
At the heart of this argument is the idea that the vast majority of people who have committed suicide by shooting themselves would have stayed alive if they had not been easily able to pick up a gun.
Policymic 2013
Guns take innocent lives: Accidental firearm deaths accounted for 851 funerals. It may seem a small number considering the total deaths for the year exceeded 2.5 million, but if your family member was among them it would have been a tragic loss.
73,505 Americans were treated in hospital emergency departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2010
The above figure is simply incredible - 73,000 injuries resulting from firearms and that obviously does not include ND's where no injury is sustained. It makes one wonder what number has to be achieved before the numpty's wake up! Sadly the death via shooting of their own young child no doubt. :sad:
^ all a very good argument for promoting more personal responsibility.
The whole idea that passing a law could save anyone from the 3 million firearms already in circulation is patently ridiculous.
That's the classic NRA argument against doing *anything*.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Earl
When the reality is that doing *something* is better than nothing.
^more often than not when the federal government get's involved they make things worse; the war on drugs is a good example taking a bad situation and making it worse.
Something should be done. How about enforcing current law for starters.
There already is a background check form filed with the BATF. Problem is it's not enforced, when a felon or a mentally defective tries to buy a gun they do nothing.
If anything there needs to be a firearms responsibility/training mandate for gun owners, something the NRA used to do and seems to be dropping the ball.
Where one has ownership of firearms by private citizens it is not possible to have responsible ownership. People take drugs, drink alcohol, are involved in road rage, abuse their kids and partners and meanwhile these very same people also have easy access to firearms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Earl
One only has to look at the quite horrendous figures relating to injuries/deaths inflicted by firearms to acknowledge current policy is not working. Access/possession is the problem. Limiting access will save lives, alternative policies will merely serve as pandering to 'responsible groups'. :)
^exactly my point, with 300 million firearms in circulation, responsibility is imperative.
Right now people only get a slap on the wrist for firearms violations.....bring back the pillory and public hanging for the egregious cases. Enforce current law god-damnit!
Fuck the candy ass liberals who have emasculated the judiciary. Punishment should be punishment, perhaps a little Sharia law might work; cut off the hand which pulls the trigger
Punishing citizens for murder is not really the point. Crime prevention is the order of the day, i.e. saving lives, not merely awaiting the capture of the latest perpertrator of a campus slaughter and blaming him and him alone.
Giving that person the means to commit mass murder is in itself a crime.
Wake up America!! :)
The point is to punish the people who try to get a gun, who should not have guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Lick
There are laws already which aren't being enforced.
The USA has over 300 millions firearms in circulation. Guns are a fact of life in the USA. Taking away peoples responsibility is the exact wrong way to manage the situation.
Taking away guns doesn't take away violent crime. Making people defenseless encourages crime. The statistics in the UK where the violent crime rate is five times that of the USA is very telling.
Firearms are very dangerous and should be treated as such. But so are cars, motorcycles, knives, baseball bats, axes, chainsaws, framing hammers.
The focus must be on the person and his/her responsibility. That message is being lost by blabbering away about gun control.
Wake up everybody!
The subject matter is firearms. In the UK, they do not have a serious problem with deaths relating to gun ownership simply because very few citizens own firearms. Some of those laws being enacted within the past 20 years. America fail to see that significance simply because their world is clouded by votes and hard cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Earl
Keep involving oneself in drugs, alcohol abuse, anger management and don't forget to keep that gun close at hand just in case somebody sensible comes a'knocking at your door. :)
We are awake. Our elected officials are paid to not to represent us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Lick
Sadly so.
Exactly which is why there will be gun restrictions, and this will be followed by a virtual gun ban as seen in the UK (wonder how many people the independent contractors will kill to achieve that one).Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG
It wouldn't matter if 99% of the US people wanted no changes to the gun laws - they will happen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Lick
There's no denying there is a problem, but the vast majority of gun owners are responsible in handling their weapons of choice.
The problem is with a population of 300+ million and over 300 million firearms the law of averages will play.
So isn't more logical to actually address the problem: which the small percentage of people who misuse firearms. It doesn't make a lick of sense to pass sweeping legislation which would affect the honest, responsible law abiding citizen rather than the actual problem which is the deranged person/criminal who pulled the trigger at the wrong time.
Those who wish to retain their firearms in the US will of course use similar arguments to UK citizens when they were confronted with a change in ownership legislation some years ago. The bleating subsided when the act was pushed through parliament and things changed for the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Earl
Much depends on one's perspective in relation to the value one place's upon human life when compared to the importance of owning a lethal toy. It's a no brainer really. :)
I would disagree that things have changed for the better in theQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Lick
UK. The extremely high violent crime rate tells a different story altogether.
The firearms issues in the USA could largely be alleviated with more and better training, with intensives for people who achieve certain standards of proficiency.
That along with more CCP issued with recuring standards of proficiency.
And last but not least some penalties with teeth to punish those who commit violent crimes with firearms or otherwise misuse firearms.
You would have had a point if I had claimed you 'said' you found them scary.... but I didn't did I; what was that you were saying about putting false words into the mouths of people who disagree with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by barbaro"Enemy combatant" is based on how you can get information from them and find others, who trained them (if anyone) and further Intell.Quote:
Originally Posted by hazz
To me, the term is how you legally get the info.
For me, It also depends on their place of birth and religious and political ideology - and how that affects their decision to conduct mass killings.
If someone is a non-muslim and conducts a mass killing of civilians, I think it's fair to treat them as an enemy combatant.
I've never considered them scary. You're putting words in my mouth.Quote:
the chap is a common criminal no more, no less.... just like Adam Lanza, Seung Hui Cho, Timothy McVeigh each of whom demonstrate just how amateurish your 'enemy combatant' was. but then these chaps weren't Muslims so they probably are not quite so scary.
I never said I feared them.Quote:
You should learn to control your fear and not give in to it.
Again, someone disagrees with you, and you make false statements and assumptions.
I said you were in, my opinion, in fear and were being manipulated like so many other people in america.
At the same time that you say you wish there were no guns in the US, you carry guns yourself and oppose the slippery slop of gun control for fear of crime on your streets and the fear that the government will take those guns from you.
so you have the arms industry though their mouthpiece the NRA, ensuring that criminals have no trouble getting weapons through private sales and gun shows. Small money to them and hardly worth the effort.... but these criminals then generate the climate of fear, that one cannot walk the streets with out a gun for fear of becoming a victim of crime, then the government needs to militarise just about every point of contact with the armed public. That sells guns guns guns and vast number so bullets for training.
There's no debate about this because any part of the government that might do the stats and talk about the reality of gun ownership has been shutdown by the NRA; the NIH will consult the NRA before they fund any gun research and give then veto.
So all you get is what the NRA and other lobby groups tell you and that is fear. fear of crime and fear that the governments going to take your guns and leave you all vulnerable to nasty criminals and jackbooted tax inspectors and assorted government types.
These people have manipulated you to the point that you see the 8 thousand or so cun related homicides each year in the US, the countess suicides, accidental shooting and woundings are a cost worth paying to keep your guns.
On the other hand you have these foreign terrorists coming to your country and blowing the place up. Only these people are really scary so you need to take extra measures against them over above what you do to a US national. Things which would probably need gautantimo bay and involve doing things that blow great big holes in the constitution and the protections agist tyranny that it provides.
And this is because foreign terrorists will be part of larger organisations at war with america and you need the right to do bad unconstitutional things to them in order the protect lives.... because they are really scary people and a big risk (whilst american gun owners are not... despite the much higher kill rates.
But then its not just koran inspired islamist organisations that are at war in america, you have your own domestic issues with constitution inspired extremist patriots who are practically at war with the government and have for decades practiced their craft in the forests of america.... something that I believe hook hand hanza is currently on trial for trying to do.
Once you accept that these foreign terrorists don't deserve constitutional protections, its only a matter of time before your persuaded that these domestic nutters don't either. Then all that happens is like the american definition of a WMD, the definition of terrorists will be broadened up, as rick is amply demonstrating with his social terrorism thread. and suddenly anyone who makes a fuss about anything is a terrorist and will get the foreign combatant treatment you support.
That slippery slope you were talking about with gun control.
personally I am gobsmacked that you can worry about the slippery slope of gun control whilst being oblivious to the slippery slope to right wing authoritarianism that you are risking with the war on terrorism. But then like so many other americans you are allowing your fears to do your thinking for you; and thats allowing the 1% in your country to manipulate you in to handing over the country to them and allowing the to create the authoritarian environment that will allow them to keep it by force should you chaps actually ever wake up and see what they are doing to you.
Seriously if you do not feel the need to change the way your country works to deal with the thousands that are killed each year in gun homicides and the school massacres.... why on earth would you give anything up to save yourself from the must smaller problem of terrorism?
you chaps need to man up, overcome your fears and take back control of your country.
thats old rinse and repeat claim. The only crime rates have a high rate differential are gun homicides which are staggeringly higher in the US and british assault rates which are staggeringly higher in the uk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr EarlI would disagree that things have changed for the better in theQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Lick
UK. The extremely high violent crime rate tells a different story altogether.
The firearms issues in the USA could largely be alleviated with more and better training, with intensives for people who achieve certain standards of proficiency.
That along with more CCP issued with recuring standards of proficiency.
And last but not least some penalties with teeth to punish those who commit violent crimes with firearms or otherwise misuse firearms.
However when you look at the way the states are collected the differece between the US and UK with gun homicides is real as teh numbers are counted in the same ay
but when you look at the stats for assault you discover that the UK include all assaults were violence was used or threatened. whilst the americans only count assaults involving the use of deadly weapons or the hospitalisation of the victim.... Once you correct for this difference the assault rate in the UK is lower.
This is an old rinse and repeat claim your making, and its been debunked on the gun threads, here and in the dog house... so you cannot credibly claim propagating this myth was an honest mistake.
The truth is that with the exception of gun homicides and associated crimes; the US and Uk have very similar crime rates. We have achieved this with an unarmed civilian population, routinely unarmed police force and a much smaller prison population. It would be a good start if you chaps in america would ask yourself how come with all this punishment of crime and guns for self defence.... why your country is no safer for it... though your arms manufactures and prison companies are certainly richer for it.
A liberal gun owner I am. A day at the range;
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The tool is not the threat. It is the soul.
This is soul. I want one next time I go to Phuket immigration.
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guess we're in trouble then.Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
^^^stats show that as things stand, civilian access to guns gets a lot of americans killed each year and almost as many on death row and long term prison. breaking a lot of families, providing a few corporates with profitable business models, quite a few americans with a comfort blanket and others a pleasurable hobby.
personally I recon America's got the compromises over civilian access to firearms very wrong and something needs to change.