Thread: Monsanto's angle.

I've figured it out so thought I'd present my findings to the TD collective brain cell.

1: They create genetically modified seeds of everything and flog them any way they can to farmers who grow that crop promising better yields and ease of farming.

2: The farmers have to agree not to keep seed and buy new one next season. This is designed so that after a few years the farmer has no non-genetically modified seeds left. Now he realises that he wants to go back to the regular seed - but oh dear, he doesn't have any. Now he HAS to pay Monsanto big money to grow the genetically engineered version which they have patented - or...

3: He tries to go to some type of seed bank and buy fresh seeds and start over. Thing is, Monsanto have bought up almost every seed bank on the planet now and guess what - they ain't selling.

Absolute fucking scum.

Sounds like a business opportunity to me. Start collecting now.

The legal and popular tide seems to be working against them....
No more, are they in the pocket of politicians, corporate moguls, and judicial benches.

The all-encompassing Monsanto paradigm is dwindling.

Google: Vandana Shiva vs. Monsanto

Rs, Why Not Just Give The Link?

Originally Posted by Eliminator

Rs, Why Not Just Give The Link?

There's no one single link, silly.
It's the wealth of related and referenced material that is available.

Hopefully, insightful and independent folk are able to pursue shite for themselves without having the proverbial posted "link" provided for them.

Originally Posted by hazz

albert, you forgot one step

sue the surrounding non monsanto licensees who do use their own seed, which will be in violation of monsanto's patents due to cross pollination between their crop and the pollen released by the neighbouring monsanto's licences's crop.

to be honest however I don't think they will be allowed corner the seed market and abuse it. Countries are allowed under WHO to partake in compulsory licensing at times of crisis, as thailand routinely does, and others will replace the monsanto seed banks if they stop selling.

but yes this company is scum and what they have done to GMO has ruined the reputation of a valuable technique for ensuring food security, this is criminal

Very good points.

The current danger is that Monsanto distribute modified crops as cheap as chips foodstuff to countrys that won't comply. By the natural process they obviously contaminate the natural local plants. At that point the host plant evolves into something that dies.

As you say, the bright side of this is that the poor farmers of the world are raising a middle finger to Monsanto at this point.

Maybe a global group of millions of farmers can sue Monsanto for fucking up their natural crops? sounds good to me.

^Well to be honest I was very surprised when i first heard about them suing farmers in canada for pirating their patents, when the reality was that that their seeds had been contaminated by Monsanto's product.

The nice thing is they had to abandon the terminator gene, which could have been horrible if it ever made its way out of the Monsanto crops.

the roundup resistant crops are in my opinion a good product, as long as they are used correctly. roundup is particularly less unpleasant that many of the more percific alternatives. but it has to be used correctly if the gene is to be kept out the weeds, creating roundup resistant weeds which are proving to be serious problems in places like brazil where they are being used in a very haphazard way.

as for their bt stuff. I would never eat it. Personally I dont really differentiate between the natural and the synthetic when it comes to agrochemicals and safety. just because its natural does not make it automatically more or less dangerous. As far as I am concerned making a plant that grows its own insecticide within its cells, is going to be more of a potential health issue than a chemical sprayed on to the surface systemic or not

defiantly one of those companies that whilst it may do some good, at its heart is unacceptable side of capalist greed. rather like tesco.... not be to trusted and if you can help it avoided.

NB for the farmers out there, don't forget the tesco maxim. buy all they can produce, get them to expand and once they need your business to stay solvent screw them into the ground.

Originally Posted by hazz

they had to abandon the terminator gene

What's the terminator gene about?

Originally Posted by hazz

the roundup resistant crops are in my opinion a good product, as long as they are used correctly. roundup is particularly less unpleasant that many of the more percific alternatives. but it has to be used correctly if the gene is to be kept out the weeds, creating roundup resistant weeds which are proving to be serious problems in places like brazil where they are being used in a very haphazard way.

I agree whole heartedly, GM could well be the answer IF IT"S USED CORRECTLY AND FAIRLY.

Cheers Hazz

The terminator gene is a gene added to the crop to ensure that the farmer cannot pirate monsanto's ip by saving the seed for the following year.... It won't germinate.

Nasty bit of tech, that say a great deal about Monsanto. Then again their involvement in pcb oils and agent orange say a lot too. Nasty fuckers

Soylent Green for everyone!

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Originally Posted by hazz

they had to abandon the terminator gene

What's the terminator gene about?

Essentially made their plants/crops annuals only. The crop will grow once, but that's it. The idea was farmers would have to buy from Monsanto each year.

Mind you, try looking at it from their point of view, how is a company meant to make money developing a gmo crop for the benefit of humanity but to also realise a profit?

Honor system of payments? We know that is not gonna happen. Should they be an altruistic company and work for free? Will a government pay them?

Originally Posted by Neo

Soylent Green for everyone!

Time, my friend.

It'll come to that.

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

Should they be an altruistic company and work for free? Will a government pay them?

This is a good point and I would have to say yes. Not that they should work for free, but that it should be a nationalised industry on a global scale. It's like the AIDS drugs and the generic versions. Millions of people suffer so a few make a profit. As you say, we're greedy and selfish by nature - perhaps it's time to evolve a little more.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

I've figured it out so thought I'd present my findings to the TD collective brain cell.

1: They create genetically modified seeds of everything and flog them any way they can to farmers who grow that crop promising better yields and ease of farming.

2: The farmers have to agree not to keep seed and buy new one next season. This is designed so that after a few years the farmer has no non-genetically modified seeds left. Now he realises that he wants to go back to the regular seed - but oh dear, he doesn't have any. Now he HAS to pay Monsanto big money to grow the genetically engineered version which they have patented - or...

3: He tries to go to some type of seed bank and buy fresh seeds and start over. Thing is, Monsanto have bought up almost every seed bank on the planet now and guess what - they ain't selling.

Absolute fucking scum.

I tjink you got it about right, there are some horror strories about them going after people using non modified seed.

Originally Posted by Koojo

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

I've figured it out so thought I'd present my findings to the TD collective brain cell.

1: They create genetically modified seeds of everything and flog them any way they can to farmers who grow that crop promising better yields and ease of farming.

2: The farmers have to agree not to keep seed and buy new one next season. This is designed so that after a few years the farmer has no non-genetically modified seeds left. Now he realises that he wants to go back to the regular seed - but oh dear, he doesn't have any. Now he HAS to pay Monsanto big money to grow the genetically engineered version which they have patented - or...

3: He tries to go to some type of seed bank and buy fresh seeds and start over. Thing is, Monsanto have bought up almost every seed bank on the planet now and guess what - they ain't selling.

Absolute fucking scum.

I tjink you got it about right, there are some horror strories about them going after people using non modified seed.

Even drifting pollen from GMOed-hybrids has legal backing.

Anyone heard about Codex Alimentarius?

It's an interesting read about how they tried to implement it here in Thailand.

The bottom line is they tried to regulate every day Thai herbs (garlic/chili/ginger etc etc about 20 all in) for anything other than local consumption. Thai farmers had been through the Monsanto process and were at the stage where they were saying fuck you - we'll start using traditional fertilizers again. So they stepped in and tried to ban Thai people from using what grows in their own garden - on their own garden.
Any use of these things as a pesticide/natural fertilizer would need the farmer to have a license from...... yup you've guessed it

Anyway, far as I can tell a greedy politician rushed it through after what must have been a monumental backhander - one day to the next.

Great thing was is that the farmers here said bollocks. They are saying that too in India and many other places.

Monsanto, companies like it and the "law" are the single biggest threat to mankind at present. We don't need GM crops, at all.

The problem is that's it's not quite that simple. Gmo's are every where and our reliance on the will increase, our very surveillance depends upon them. The reason you don't risk catching aids, mad cow desease when you take hepititus b, factor 8 injections, fetility treatements and a myrid of other injections is be uase then products are no long produced from blood but by gmo's.
The next generation of renewable fuels will use enzymes which convert wood to alcohol, wood which can be grown on land unfit for farming allowing gasohol to be made without competing with food crops for land and quite possibly water. These enzymes through necessity will be manufactured using gmo's.
With crops gm allows selective breaking to be replaced by a process that is both faster and more precise then the selective breaking we have done for thousands of years. All of your food crops are manufactured organismins in this repect. The availability of drought resistant rice varieties has a lot to do with gm. He same for many other crops.

The issue is not the technology of genetic manipulation. But where the moral boundaries of what is not allowed. Even more so is the role of private business and the government in this nd to be honest public health. The issue is that we have put ourselves in a position where we are leaving all crop, Agro, pharma and medical development to businesses and charities, the question is whilst this saves the government a fortune, it it worth the hidden costs?

Regarding patents, without them we would almost curtain loy be in the 18th century. Many of the developments that have made us healthier and extended our lives have come at great financial cost, a cost that had taken many years to recover. Patents are a covert between business and the people. We grant a temperarry manopoly to businesses that are then able to invest huge sums of money to develop products knowing that they will have a market to sell them in. Generic products that copy their investment, would rob them of that Market and drive them to bankupsy.

Patents and their enforcement are essential for our future, if you what to argue that the system is broken and that patents are granted far too easerly for trivial things then yes you are absolutely right. The system is however essential, it requires reform not abolition

Originally Posted by Necron99

Monsanto, companies like it and the "law" are the single biggest threat to mankind at present. We don't need GM crops, at all.

It will shrink when populations stop purchasing this crap....
Difficult to convince the overwhelming majority, whom keep consuming and continue the cycles.

Luckily, there are strong and influential resistence movements afoot promoting the ideals of seed banks, organics, community/local farming, heritage foods, etc.

Such change will come from social reconstruction, not from legislative processes - as the corps and govts are one and the same. Washing each other's backs.

Originally Posted by Sir Wilson

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Originally Posted by hazz

they had to abandon the terminator gene

What's the terminator gene about?

Essentially made their plants/crops annuals only. The crop will grow once, but that's it. The idea was farmers would have to buy from Monsanto each year.

Mind you, try looking at it from their point of view, how is a company meant to make money developing a gmo crop for the benefit of humanity but to also realise a profit?

Honor system of payments? We know that is not gonna happen. Should they be an altruistic company and work for free? Will a government pay them?

And next you can describe how great Ajinomoto is and that msg and aspartame are health foods.

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

It will shrink when populations stop purchasing this crap....
Difficult to convince the overwhelming majority, whom keep consuming and continue the cycles.

Do you believe there is a market, and the farmers can make free choices? In many cases they can't, but are forced to purchase from Monsanto. They own the US government, the US government dominates the WTO. I pull a quote from Wikipedia to show how it works.

"In January 2011, John Vidal of The Guardian reported on Wikileak documents that suggested US diplomats in Europe were responding to a request from help from Spanish government; the article says: "In addition, the cables show US diplomats working directly for GM companies such as Monsanto. 'In response to recent urgent requests by [Spanish rural affairs ministry] state secretary Josep Puxeu and Monsanto, post requests renewed US government support of Spain's science-based agricultural biotechnology position through high-level US government intervention.' "The documents show that in 2009, when the Spanish government's policy allowing MON819 corn to be grown, as allowed under European law, was under pressure from EU interests, Monsanto's Director for Biotechnology for Spain and Portugal requested that the US government support Spain on the matter. The reports also indicated that Spain and the US had worked closely together to "persuade the EU not to strengthen biotechnology laws." Spain was viewed as an EU member that was a key supporter of GM and there was a widespread belief in biotechnology industry that "if Spain falls, the rest of Europe will follow." The documents also revealed that in response to an attempt by France to ban a Monsanto's MON810 in late 2007, the then US ambassador to France, Craig Roberts Stapleton, in a bid to "help strengthen European pro-biotech voices," asked Washington to "calibrate a targeted retaliation list that [would cause] some pain across the EU," in particular those countries that did not support the use of GM crops. This activity transpired after the US, Australia, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, India, Mexico and New Zealand had brought an action against Europe via the World Trade Organization with respect to the EU's banning of GMOs; in 2006, the WTO had ruled against the EU. Monsanto is a member of EuropaBio, the leading biotechnology trade group in Europe. One of EuropaBio's initiatives is "Transforming Europe’s position on GM food", and it has stated that there is "an urgent need to reshape the terms of the debate about GM in Europe." In an effort to transform European policy relating to the production and distribution of genetically modified foods within the EU, EuropaBio proposed the recruitment of high profile "ambassadors" that might affect opinion on GM policy by lobbying European leaders directly. The organisation also aimed to introduce the ambassadors to high-level European bureaucrats and MEPs with the goal of making a stronger case for GM within the EU."

If they can do it in Europe, imagine the state of things in less developed nations. When they need funds from the WTO or IMF, business for Monsanto and alike simple becomes part of the package.

Monsanto is a dangerous corporation. The monopoly maker of PCBs in the US, a substance that decades after its ban continues to cause cancer in humans and animals, it's a persistant pollutant. It was well known how toxic this substance actually is, but lobbying politics and belittling the risks by Monsanto took care that its sales continued for decades. Good chance that the cancer you will probably get at some point in your life is caused by it, and wouldn't it be ironic if you belong to the defenders of the business model Monsanto is an icon of? Another quote from Wikipedia:

"In 2002, the Washington Post carried a front page report on Monsanto's legacy of environmental damage in Anniston, Alabama, related to its legal production of PCBs. Plaintiffs in a lawsuit pending at that time provided documentation showing that the local Monsanto factory knowingly discharged both mercury and PCB-laden waste into local creeks for over 40 years.In another story published in 2002, the New York Times reported that during 1969 alone Monsanto had dumped 45 tons of PCBs into Snow Creek, a feeder for Choccolocco Creek which supplies much of the area's drinking water and that the company buried millions of pounds of PCB in open-pit landfills located on hillsides above the plant and surrounding neighborhoods. In August 2003, Solutia and Monsanto agreed to pay plaintiffs $700 million to settle claims by over 20,000 Anniston residents related to PCB contamination.As of 2012, Monsanto is associated with 11 "active" Superfund sites and 20 "archived" sites in the US, in the EPA's Superfund database.Monsanto has been sued, and has settled, multiple times for damaging the health of its employees or residents near its Superfund sites through pollution and poisoning."

Monsanto was also the co-producer (with Dow Chemical) of Agent Orange.

Whatever Monsanto is doing for profits, it's unethical.