Pacifism, Brotherly Love, and Hypocrisy

[Boon Mee]

Another great moment in Euro-double think : Austria defended the sale of 50 caliber sniper rifles to Iran (which has nothing to do with the insurgnets in Iraq, eh)

"American troops have recovered more than 100 "Steyr .50 HS" rifles in Iraq, part of an Austrian consignment of 800 such weapons delivered to Iran over American protests that they could be given to insurgents, the Daily Telegraph reported. The Austrian government approved the sale of the rifles after it concluded that they would be used to fight narcotics smugglers"

Imagine, if you would, anyone actually believing that any of this fine Austro-Iranian weaponry would actually be used in close-quarters work like drug interdiction. As usual, European industry and society has whored itself just to make a few bucks. How much of their strange little lives are spent trying to rationalize this stuff and consolidate it with what they like to think their societies hold up as virtues...

[Dougal]

Of course America would not do anything like that would they?

Or did Reagan forge a deal with the Iranians that if they kept hold of the American hostages till after he was elected he would supply them with F14 spares?

Or did Oliver North sell arms to Iran at inflated prices to fund terrorists in Nicaragua?

Print your story about Austrian arms, I am sure it is true, but don't try to preach that good ole America is somehow above this sort of thing.

Only one thing seems certain, NOBODY in the arms trade has any moral scruples about who their weapons kill.

[Wallace]

Come on, Boon Mee, we are talking about 50 rifles. What's that compared to the thousands upon thousands of American made weapons that make their way into the hands of people who then use them in petty wars like this one?

[Boon Mee]

The .50-caliber Steyr can accurately fire an armor-piercing round at a range of 1,500 meters -- good against Humvees, helicopters and body armor. 170 U.S. soldiers in Iraq have been killed by sniper fire and about 600 more wounded.

The Austrian Chancellor Wolfang Schüssel let the deal go forward in 2004, over strong American objections. Austria, like the rest of the EU, is dripping with American blood. It's a personal thing here.

The MSM and Benedict Arnold's brothers and sisters in Congress continue to 'support our troops' by ignoring it all.

[Wallace]

Austria, like the rest of the EU, is dripping with American blood.

What on earth does that mean? I must tell the Greeks next time I'm there that they all have American blood on their hands.

I have to admit, you do enjoy your colourful metaphors.

[sabang]

This is an arms trade, not EU issue.
The five largest arms traders in the world are also the 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council, of which the largest are the US and Britain. If you want others selling arms to groups you do not like, stop exporting arms yourself. You armed the Taliban and Al Qaeda, America.
If we were to look at Iran's substantial arms inventory, I would wager far more of it is US and UK manufactured than Austrian.

[barbaro]

This is an arms trade, not EU issue.
The five largest arms traders in the world are also the 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council, of which the largest are the US and Britain. If you want others selling arms to groups you do not like, stop exporting arms yourself. You armed the Taliban and Al Qaeda, America.

Yes,

the top dealers could set a good precedent.

But will they? Of course not. Too much $$$ involved.

[man with no head]

As usual, European industry and society has whored itself just to make a few bucks.

If Austria is a whore what does that make the U.S.? The mama-san of the biggest brothel in history?

[raycarey]

hypocrisy?

In July 1985, Israel sent American-made BGM-71 TOW (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided) anti-tank missiles to Iran through an arms dealer named Manucher Ghorbanifar, a friend of Iran's Prime Minister.

Oliver North, a military aide to the United States National Security Council (NSC), proposed a new plan for selling arms to Iran. This time, there were two new ideas. Instead of selling arms through Israel, the sale was to be direct. Second, the proceeds from the sale would go to the Contras at a markup. Oliver North wanted a $15 million markup, while contracted Iranian arms broker Manucher Ghorbanifar added a 41% markup of his own. [15] Other members of the NSC were in favor of North's plan. John Poindexter authorized the plan, and it went into effect. [16] At first, the Iranians refused to buy the arms at the inflated price because of the excessive markup imposed by North and Ghorbanifar. In February 1986, 1000 TOW missiles were shipped to Iran.[16] From May to November 1986, there were additional shipments of miscellaneous weapons and parts.[16] Reagan claimed that the total of all arms sales was less than a planeload.[5]

less than a planeload! and boonie's upset about 100 guns.

boner also put up oliver north for president on post #17 of the barack obama thread.

Iran-Contra Affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[man with no head]

Israel makes lots of money taking our aid and technology and reselling it to other nations like China.

[humphrey]

If Austria is a whore what does that make the U.S.? The mama-san of the biggest brothel in history?

The top girl in the bar who has aspirations of being the mamasan.

[stroller]

Yet another nonsensical, misleading topic title...

[Mr Earl]

The .50-caliber Steyr can accurately fire an armor-piercing round at a range of 1,500 meters -- good against Humvees, helicopters and body armor. 170 U.S. soldiers in Iraq have been killed by sniper fire and about 600 more wounded.

The Austrian Chancellor Wolfang Schüssel let the deal go forward in 2004, over strong American objections. Austria, like the rest of the EU, is dripping with American blood. It's a personal thing here.

The MSM and Benedict Arnold's brothers and sisters in Congress continue to 'support our troops' by ignoring it all.

The 50 caliber rifle is a nasty piece of hardware. Especially when loaded with these little honeys.

In the right hands such a rifle has a 2500 meters effective range.

[stroller]

Seems a good way of fighting an occupying military without endangering the lives of innocent bystanders.
If war is peace, then this is a humanitarian weapon which saves lives.

[ceburat]

The .50-caliber Steyr can accurately fire an armor-piercing round at a range of 1,500 meters -- good against Humvees, helicopters and body armor. 170 U.S. soldiers in Iraq have been killed by sniper fire and about 600 more wounded.

The Austrian Chancellor Wolfang Schüssel let the deal go forward in 2004, over strong American objections. Austria, like the rest of the EU, is dripping with American blood. It's a personal thing here.

The MSM and Benedict Arnold's brothers and sisters in Congress continue to 'support our troops' by ignoring it all.

The 50 caliber rifle is a nasty piece of hardware. Especially when loaded with these little honeys.

In the right hands such a rifle has a 2500 meters effective range.

Could be one of the reasons we are seeing more helicopters downed. You are right "nasty" but "efficient".

[RandomChances]

170 U.S. soldiers in Iraq have been killed by sniper fire and about 600 more wounded.

On the bright side it would cut down dramaticaly the numbers of wounded

[Boon Mee]

Yet another nonsensical, misleading topic title...

Seems pretty appropriate to this observer...

[attaboy]

That's right deflect from Austria's behavior by pulling the USA in front of Austria. Done like a true terrorist using human shields. Afterall, it's hardly a fair fight over there. The Austrians are only trying to help even the playing field. That's what's most important. Consider also, the USA will do nothing but shame the Austrians. On the other hand, the Iranians and their terrorist proxies are not above lopping off heads. It's safer to siddle up to the radicals. Leftist intellectuals are all about fair play. And not helping out would put the enemy at a distinct disadvantage. Wait. The terrorists aren't the enemy. They aren't even the opponent. They are a contestant. The Austrians wouldn't want to appear partial to any side. They may be called upon to referee a conclusion (and there is that head lopping issue too).

It only becomes fair when the underdog actually has the upper hand by being excused from upholding any standard whatsoever and to top it off the underdog contestant should be well armed. Way to go. I must admire the Austrians' and leftist intellectuals' sense of fair play. It's only fair that the terrorists not be held to any standards and they should be well supplied with arms.

I'm sorry. I tried my best to rationalize Austria's act against a NATO ally but I couldn't do it. There is no excuse for what the Austrian arms dealer has done with the consent of the Austrian government.

Come on, Boon Mee, we are talking about 50 rifles.

Tell that to the people interested in any cause that saves one life.

[Wallace]

Given the fact that the USA exports billlions of dollars worth of arms to foreign countries, it's ridiculous to discuss this incredibly minor issue.

The USA armed Saddam Hussein, for god's sake. When you also consider the amount of weapons that have gone missing after the US invasion, it's laughable to raise the issue of some Austrian rifles going astray.

[stroller]

I don't see what the Austrian gov's approval of the sale of these weapons has to do with pacifism, brotherly love, or what leftist intellectuals supposedly think.

[attaboy]

Given the fact that the USA exports billlions of dollars worth of arms to foreign countries, it's ridiculous to discuss this incredibly minor issue.

The USA armed Saddam Hussein, for god's sake. When you also consider the amount of weapons that have gone missing after the US invasion, it's laughable to raise the issue of some Austrian rifles going astray.

The USA is involved in a armed conflict. Austria, a NATO ally, sold 800 high octane sniper rifles to the Iranians who are fighting a proxy war against us. Thanks alot Austria. Our troops will have to cope with a weapon which allows the enemy to step up their game considerably. No fa niente, eh? At least stroller made a clever joke.

I wasn't aware the missiles Ollie North brokered to the Iranians were actually used to kill Austrians or anyone else on the EU continent. It appears ray is upset the Iranians were overcharged too.

[Wallace]

The USA is involved in an ILLEGAL armed conflict against a country which posed no threat to it. This is an old subject.

What would you expect them to do? If the USA decided to invade North Korea on similar spurious grounds, do you honestly think that weapons from Russia or China wouldn't find their way into that country.

As soon as the USA realised they had taken on more than they could handle, it was inevitable that the Iraqis who oppose the US led invasion would obtain weapons. If they weren't going to come from Iran, then they'd find their way into the country via some other route.

Perhaps you should be more concerned about the sale of Russian anti-aircraft missiles and launchers to Iran and Syria. Now, if these made their way into Iraqi hands.......

It's all very well trying to blame Austria whilst the US makes billions out of arms sales to very dodgy countries for very dodgy purposes. It is quite likely that the arms were diverted, lost, or simply stolen to make their way into Iraq. As I've said before, the US can't even account for the thousands of guns and ammunition they rounded up and stored in various places around Iraq.

[stroller]

The context, note that Austrian policy towards weapon exports changed after 2004:

Astrid Harz of the Foreign Ministry said the Austrian government's approval of the deal in late 2004 "had been legal and correct based on the Austrian legal regulations."

Iran's security forces said that the guns would be used to fight drug-trafficking in its border regions. Rudolf Gollia, a spokesman for the Austrian Interior Ministry stressed that the end-use certificate had been double-checked with Iranian ministries.
...
In 2005 and 2006, no exports to Iran were approved, as the geopolitical situation in Iran changed, the Austrian Interior Ministry said.

The Raw Story | Austrian rifles used in Iraq, reports say
From the same article:

Green Party MP Peter Pilz, an outspoken critic of the deal in 2005, said his initial concerns had been confirmed and said that "first grade terrorst weapons" were delivered to terrorist sympathizers in Iran.

The members of Schuessel's cabinet were responsible for the deal, he charged.

Wolfgang Schuessel is a nationalist right-winger, not a leftist intelectual, attaboy. By contrast, the Green Party, a distant relative of your despised "commies" opposed the deal.

[GooMaiRoo]

"American troops have recovered more than 100 "Steyr .50 HS" rifles in Iraq, part of an Austrian consignment of 800 such weapons delivered to Iran over American protests that they could be given to insurgents, the Daily Telegraph reported."

From last week's Los Angeles Times: "According to the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, about 14,000 of the weapons bought (with your tax dollars!) for distribution to Iraqi security forces got, um, misplaced somewhere between getting to Iraq and being transferred to the Iraqi army and police. Instead, analysts say, many of those weapons ended up in the hands of You Know Who. And that's not even counting the weapons that do get delivered to the Iraqi forces but are lost, and then reappear shortly thereafter in black market weapons bazaars, where they can be bought by the bad guys and used against our troops." (i.e., the USA has a lot bigger problem than 800 rifles sent to Iran.)

[attaboy]

Wallace, I can distinguish the difference of general arm sales and sales by a NATO ally at an other than ordinary time to a country not outside the conflict. If the arms had come from Russia that would be understandable. A 'see how you like it' attitude doesn't explain away what occurred.

What would you expect them to do? If the USA decided to invade North Korea on similar spurious grounds, do you honestly think that weapons from Russia or China wouldn't find their way into that country.

What would I expect who to do? Like I said Austria is a NATO ally. I would expect it from Russia or China but no it came from Austria.

Stroller, cherry picking quotes to once again make your brethren look the more intelligent of the two didn't go unnoticed by me.

FP, these aren't AK-47s or machine guns. They are high-tech sniper rifles. The capabilities have been described and it's much different than an AK47 commonly fired at say 50 yards. It picks up the enemy's game considerably. That's the difference as far as the weapons go. Who did it under what circumstances is also the difference.