"I had other priorities in the '60s than military service."

**Camel Toe** · 02-02-2007, 06:24 PM

I was against the Viet war in 1965, but found myself in a go to army or go to jail scene. I went in as a medic, passed 8 months in infantry training, one year in medical training, became stronger and more fit than I ever imagined, returned fire with my rifle a few times and saved a lot of people from dying. It feels good to save lives using your hands, your mind, and your training. Especially when they recover and bless you and thank you the way they did.

**Mr Earl** · 02-02-2007, 09:35 PM

^ If I could rewrite part of my life I would write in being a FAC pilot who flew in northern Laos helping the mountain people against the Pathet Lao.
It's sad what we let happen to those people.

**man with no head** · 03-02-2007, 12:13 AM

I think the question is why did a person who strongly supported the Vietnam war intentionally follow a path to get 5 deferments and then subsequently become the largest hawk for the war in Iraq several decades later and expect others to die for the cause he strongly promotes?

Is that the kind of leader we should have?

(Somehow I doubt someone will answer this).

**Mr Earl** · 03-02-2007, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by surasak

I think the question is why did a person who strongly supported the Vietnam war intentionally follow a path to get 5 deferments and then subsequently become the largest hawk for the war in Iraq several decades later and expect others to die for the cause he strongly promotes?

Is that the kind of leader we should have?

(Somehow I doubt someone will answer this).

Like I already said without knowing how and why he got the deferments it isn't intellectually responsible to slander someone on that basis.

But of course you probably "feel" like it's a legitimate issue.
And of course how you "feel" isn't really a basis for intellectual debate.

**man with no head** · 03-02-2007, 02:04 AM

My father was married and I was born before he went to Vietnam. He didn't become a coward and seek two deferments based on that. He served his country.

It smacks of the worst kind of hypocrisy to actively support having your nation in war and not volunteer to fight (if one is physically capable).

Why didn't Cheney volunteer if he felt so supportive of the war? None of his deferments were for physical or mental reasons.

"Oh, look, let's get married. I can avoid fighting. Get pregnant, honey, another free pass!"

And, to clarify, what slander?

**Butterfly** · 03-02-2007, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Like I already said without knowing how and why he got the deferments it isn't intellectually responsible to slander someone on that basis.

Watch the documentary "Dick Cheney the Unauthorized Biography" to get a clue

**Mr Earl** · 03-02-2007, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Like I already said without knowing how and why he got the deferments it isn't intellectually responsible to slander someone on that basis.

Watch the documentary "Dick Cheney the Unauthorized Biography" to get a clue

We all already know how you like to jump to subjective conclusions, advertising that tendency doesn't strengthen your argument.

**raycarey** · 03-02-2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Like I already said without knowing how and why he got the deferments it isn't intellectually responsible to slander someone on that basis.

now earl, i don't want to offend your delicate sense of intellectual responsibility, but here's dick's timeline....and needless to say, i'm anxiously awaiting your analysis.

By January 1963, with the US actively advising South Vietnamese forces, Cheney enrolled in Casper Community College and turned 22 that month. At that time, he sought his first student deferment which was granted on March 20, according to records from the Selective Service System. After transferring to the University of Wyoming at Laramie, Cheney sought his second student deferment on July 23, 1963. On August 7, 1964, Congress approved the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which allowed President Lyndon B. Johnson to use military force in Vietnam. From that point on, American involvement in Vietnam began to escalate rapidly.

On August 29, 1964, 22 days after the resolution, Cheney married his high school sweetheart, Lynne. He sought and was granted his third student deferment on October 14, 1964. In May 1965, Cheney graduated from college and his draft status changed to 1-A. Since he was married, however, he had somewhat better protection from being drafted. In July 1965, Johnson announced that he was doubling the number of men drafted. The number of inductions soared, to 382,010 in 1966 from 230,991 in 1965 and 112,386 in 1964. Cheney obtained his fourth deferment because he started graduate school at the University of Wyoming on November 1, 1965.

On October 6, 1965, the Selective Service lifted its ban against drafting married men who had no children. On January 19, 1966, when his wife was about 10 weeks pregnant, Mr. Cheney applied for 3-A status, the "hardship" exemption, which excluded men with children or dependent parents. It was granted. In January 1967, Cheney turned 26 and was no longer eligible for the draft.[7

Dick Cheney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

^ If I could rewrite part of my life I would write in being a FAC pilot who flew in northern Laos helping the mountain people against the Pathet Lao.

hey walter mitty, wake up! you're still just a chickenhawk

**raycarey** · 04-02-2007, 03:42 PM

ol' earl felt it necessary to red me for this post, but apparently he doesn't feel like commenting on the damning indictment of cheney's cowardice illustrated in the wikipedia timeline.

why is that earl?

**Mr Earl** · 04-02-2007, 08:36 PM

^Because I choose to ignore your spurious hate mongering slander.
Not much to discuss with someone who knows it all and think he is always right.
You've become quite tedious so forgive me if I fail to respond to your insults, trolling, and baiting from now on.

**barbaro** · 04-02-2007, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by Milkman

George W. Bush dodged the draft.

Piloting an F102 in the National Guard isn't exactly "draft dodging". Just strapping into that bird was hazardous duty.
If fact many guard units were deployed to Vietnam.
The reason Bush never went was that they were phasing out that airplane and the US involvement had peaked in 1968.
linky

How Convenient......

He could have just asked to go.

Why didn't he?

Chicken hawk.

**raycarey** · 04-02-2007, 10:17 PM

come, come now earl. don't be so sensitive. after all, it was you who posted.....

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Not having the details to how or why he got the deferments I'll reserve comment. Just getting the deferments isn't indictable IMHO. There are many legitimate reasons for deferment.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Like I already said without knowing how and why he got the deferments it isn't intellectually responsible to slander someone on that basis.

i've provided you the 'details' and the 'how'.....why isn't it now 'intellectually responsible' to comment?

**man with no head** · 04-02-2007, 10:54 PM

Slander also implies that Cheney never got any deferments and that he was standing in line wanting to volunteer but was turned away.

**barbaro** · 04-02-2007, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by surasak

Slander also implies that Cheney never got any deferments and that he was standing in line wanting to volunteer but was turned away.

College deferements.

Some were even for graduate school before graduate studies were phased out.

It's old hat.

On another note, I honestly think that Cheney is losing it. He made statements that were published today saying that there was (to paraphrase) 'progress being made on the ground in Iraq.'

And 2+ years ago, the insurgency was in it's "last throes."

As Cheney suggests, look up the word "throes" in the dictionary.

**man with no head** · 04-02-2007, 11:05 PM

As I stated my own father could have gotten two deferments, but, chose not to.

Why did Cheney chicken out when he is on record for supporting the Vietnam war?

Deferments are simply a way for the elite to avoid service while simultaneously being 'for' the war. Nothing more than a legal way to be a coward.

**Mr Earl** · 05-02-2007, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by raycarey

i've provided you the 'details' and the 'how'.....why isn't it now 'intellectually responsible' to comment?

So he got his deferments legitimately! What's there to discuss?
You want call him a coward fine but that's simply your subjective opinion.

**man with no head** · 05-02-2007, 12:23 AM

Hypocrisy: the act of pretending or claiming to have beliefs, feelings, morals or virtues that one does not truly possess or practice.

Did Cheney actively support the war? Yes. Did he volunteer to serve? No.

Hypocrite.

**stroller** · 05-02-2007, 12:53 AM

I think he truely has the belief that others should do the fighting for him.

**raycarey** · 05-02-2007, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

So he got his deferments legitimately! What's there to discuss?

if you really believe that, maybe it's because you also dodged the draft.

**Mr Earl** · 05-02-2007, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

So he got his deferments legitimately! What's there to discuss?

if you really believe that, maybe it's because you also dodged the draft.

Yepper it's another "Scooter Libby" argument! Where even though no crime was committed accusations, and indictments proceeded along. People like Fitzgerald should be indicted for wasting taxpayers money on frivolous court cases.

**raycarey** · 05-02-2007, 07:11 PM

earl, why are you attempting to distract from the issue with a topic that already has its own thread. US v. Libby.

but let's assume for a moment you're right...cheney didn't enter college to avoid the draft, didn't get married to avoid the draft, and didn't have a kid to avoid the draft.....but why didn't he enlist? in case you've forgotten, the dreaded 'communists' were yesterday's terrorists.......you know, 'they hate our freedoms, and want to take away our way of life'. didn't cheney recognize that threat?

didn't you?

**Mr Earl** · 05-02-2007, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by raycarey

didn't you?

hell no, I was caught up in the whole stoned out hippie thing.
I believed John Kerry's lies. And was too stoned out of my head to care.
I probably would have dodged the draft. had they not stopped as soon as I got my draft card.
I wasn't military material back then....I was a candidate for Alice's Restaurant!
The vietnam vets I ran into back then were pretty wacked out as well.
I was a crazy time!

So if Cheney got legitimate deferments who are you or I to second guess his motives.
Your judgments on this are very subjective.

**stroller** · 05-02-2007, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

hell no, I was caught up in the whole stoned out hippie thing.

Far out, man, wish I'd been there!

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

....I was a candidate for Alice's Restaurant!

Some say ye still are.

**andyirish57** · 05-02-2007, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

The US military had essentially won militarily in Vietnam in 1968. The war was subsequently lost in Washington DC largely thanks to people like John Kerry and Hanoi Jane.

You retreated, pulled out, left in a hurry, hardly the behaviour of victors.

**Mr Earl** · 06-02-2007, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by stroller

Far out, man, wish I'd been there!

Weren't you? It was crazy, man.... everyone was "there".

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

....I was a candidate for Alice's Restaurant!

Some say ye still are.

In the immortal words of Klaus Von Bulow "you have no idea!"

Thread: "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service."

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