I wouldn't bet that TEFLer paycheck on it...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
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I wouldn't bet that TEFLer paycheck on it...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
boonie you've repeatedly proven you're unable to discern between radical right wing propaganda and conventional wisdom, so i'll lay it out for you in a dumbed down format...
1. libby doesn't even qualify for a traditional pardon--bush, of course, can do what he wants and flaunt the rules, but libby doesn't meet the established criteria.
2. it would create a firestorm of protests (and congressional investigations into the entire scandal) from the dems and decidedly unflattering media coverage.
3. if libby uses the full extent of the appeals process (and i'm not sure he's even going to do that) he won't spend a day in jail before '09 anyway.
what would be the point of giving him a pardon now? who benefits?
Well, for one thing, it would be a small token of payback for the Clinton pardons plus the Sandy Berger scandal which rates a good deal higher on criminality scale...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
you think the white house is going to bring back to the fore a scandal directly related to how pre-war intelligence was used in order to achieve "a small token of payback for the Clinton pardons"]?
again boonie....who benefits?--besides ann coulter and newsmax.com of course.
and btw.....how does 'payback' enter into this? how were the republicans 'hurt' by the clinton pardons that would require 'payback' of any sort?
It would be 'payback' in that Clinton (who was impeached, btw) pardoned a convicted criminal - anyhow, this prosecutor knew from the beginning that (a) leaking Valerie Plame's name was not a crime and (b) the guy who did it was Richard Armitage. In other words, he was aware that the public and media perception of this ''case'' was entirely wrong: There was no conspiracy by Bush ideologues to damage a whistleblower, only an anti-war official making an offhand remark to an anti-war reporter. Even the usual appeals to prosecutorial discretion (Libby was a peripheral figure with only he said/she said evidence in an investigation with no underlying crime) don't convey the scale of Fitzgerald's perversity: He knew, in fact, that there was no cloud, that under all the dark scudding about Rove and Cheney there was only sunny Richard Armitage blabbing away accidentally. Yet he chose to let the entirely false impression of his ''case'' sit out there month in, month out, year after year, glowering over the White House, doing great damage to the presidency on the critical issue of the day.
It ain't over...:rolleyes:
^and we still haven't any confirmation to the "covert" status of Valerie Plame!
I think since we haven't had any confirmation that she was indeed "covert" then she in all probability was not "covert". Making the very premise of any investigation ridiculous. That's what "conventional wisdom" mandates!
If Fiztgerald knew the who the "leaker" was at the beginning his subsequent investigation was unnecessary.
Republitards logic:
"I didn't have sex with that woman" -- He lied and should be impeached
"I didn't tell journalists that Valerie Plame was an undercover spy" -- who cares, she wasn't active and it's not like nobody didn't know about it
I think scooter will be pardoned but not before Bush boys last days in office. Do they seperate prisions for white collar criminals in the US? Or will this crook be in the pen with all the general bad asses?
did you miss the part when Cheney ask Bush to "lift" her credentials so they could disclose her identity to the press ? of course they lift her credentials AFTER they outed her to the press.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Earl
Well, Scooter faces up to 25 years for the crime of failing to remember when he first heard the name Valerie Plame - not quite to the level of Clinton's man, Sandy Burgler who stole classified documents from the National Archives and got a misdemeanor charge...:mad:
nonsense. guidelines say less than three.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
he didn't fail to remember, he lied to the FBI on an issue of national security.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
IMO he should be charged. but the question you should be asking yourself boonie is why didn't the republican house, senate, or justice department open congressional hearings on the matter or bring more significant charges against berger?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Well, what about this so-call 'cloud over the White House' crap? Fitzgerald, in his closing remarks to the jury was highly revealing. If he dislikes Bush and Cheney and the Iraq war, whoopee: Run against them, or donate to the Democrats, or get a talk-radio show. Instead, he chose in full knowledge of the truth to maintain artificially a three-year cloud over the White House while the anti-Bush left frantically mistook its salivating for the first drops of a downpour. The result is the disgrace of Scooter Libby. Big deal. Patrick Fitzgerald's disgrace is the greater, and a huge victory not for justice or the law but for the criminalization of politics. :confused:
no one can claim that fitzgerald is a partisan....rather he is known as a relentless prosecutor who would prosecute his mother if she broke the law. and secondly, all prosecutors get riled if people lie under oath. the entire justice system would be a joke if they didn't vigorously prosecute those who choose to lie.
there was/is a cloud over the white house, and it won't be gone until cheney resigns or he and bush leave office.
it's clear politics have not been 'criminalized' because rove and fleischer were not indicted.
What proof can you show that Rove & Fleischer are culpable? Anyhow, this was a political show trial, and partisans of Joe Wilson will use the guilty verdict to declare vindication. But along the way we learned that virtually all the claims Wilson and his supporters made were false:Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
On his trip to Niger, Wilson found no evidence that contradicted the famous "16 words" in President Bush's 2003 State of the Union Address, contrary to his New York Times op-ed claim.
Plame, his wife, who worked for the CIA, did recommend him for the Niger junket, contrary to Wilson's denials.
Plame was not a covert agent under the definition of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, contrary to Wilson's insinuations, which many of his backers, including in the press, presented as fact.
No one from the White House "leaked" Plame's identity as a CIA functionary to Robert Novak, who received the information from Richard Armitage at the State Department.Libby stands convicted of lying in the course of Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation of the Valerie Plame fiasco --but that investigation was undertaken on the basis of a tissue of lies...:confused:
I think it is fantastic that they finally has nailed one of these crooks, and I see it as a small payback for letting Oliver North slip off the hook. :cool:
And this is just the beginning.
The tide is turning... :cool:
The icing on the cake would be when GW Bush show up at a press conf completely drunk
Weak troll - practice up, lom!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by lom
The way to object to Dick Cheney’s power is through political agitation, not through imprisoning his former chief of staff.Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
This is the very definition of the criminalization of politics.:rolleyes:
It was tailored especially for you Booners and I knew you would recognize it - after all it was just recirculation ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Wilson is a liar who dragged his wife into a big mess. He was a stooge for the Kerry campaign who hoped a plum government job awaited him if his efforts helped Bush lose the election.
he dragged his wife into it? ohhhh.....so it was wilson who called reporters to tell them his wife was an operative at the CIA. i guess i missed that in the trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy
:1st: i'd like to take this opportunity to award attaboy this week's most absurdly revisionist look back at the scandalous actions of the bush white house.
congratulations attaboy.
reallly? link please. bloggers need not apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy
and even if it were true, the information he brought back was accurate (and if it was presented to the american people honestly), could have helped to prevent the disaster unfolding in the ME. if the white house never used the nuclear claim (including in the state of the union! ) the march to war would have been more difficult....and the white house knew it.
but should the white house have reacted by talking to reporters about his wife?
especially if she worked at the CIA?
and to do it during a period of time which the president refers to as "a time of war", is even more outrageous.
1. How did he "drag" his wife into this.Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy
2. How is Willson a liar?
3. Stooge for Kerry campaign? - He wrote the article for the The New York Times before Kerry even had an exploratory committee for run for President.
Come on Milkman - you are letting this annoying thing called reality confuse the issue! You should know by now that reality and rednecks don't mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milkman1. How did he "drag" his wife into this.Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy
2. How is Willson a liar?
3. Stooge for Kerry campaign? - He wrote the article for the The New York Times before Kerry even had an exploratory committee for run for President.
Thank you ray. *bows* You can keep the tin cup.
OpinionJournal - Featured Article
On top of that Kerry hired and fired Sandy "the burglar" Berger too. Kerry really knows how to pick them doesn't he? Is there any question left whether he's stupid? He's stupid right? Come on admit it. Give him up.Quote:
Mr. Wilson also vehemently denied it when columnist Robert Novak first reported that his wife had played a role in selecting him for the Niger mission. He promptly signed up as adviser to the Kerry campaign and was feted almost everywhere in the media, including repeat appearances on NBC's "Meet the Press" and a photo spread (with Valerie) in Vanity Fair.
But his day in the political sun was short-lived. The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report last July cited the note that Ms. Plame had sent recommending her husband for the Niger mission. "Interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD [Counterproliferation Division] employee, suggested his name for the trip," said the report.
The same bipartisan report also pointed out that the forged documents Mr. Wilson claimed to have discredited hadn't even entered intelligence channels until eight months after his trip. And it said the CIA interpreted the information he provided in his debrief as mildly supportive of the suspicion that Iraq had been seeking uranium in Niger.
About the same time, another inquiry headed by Britain's Lord Butler delivered its own verdict on the 16 words: "We conclude also that the statement in President Bush's State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that 'The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa' was well-founded."
In short, Joe Wilson hadn't told the truth about what he'd discovered in Africa, how he'd discovered it, what he'd told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.
MM, Wison's fantasy life of making up his big lies in order to imagine himself some sort of spy-assassin of Bush shed light on his wife. She is the one who recommended him for the job. He said Cheny recommended him. Ah jeeez, another lie.
CNN.com- Joseph Wilson: 'Karl Rove should be fired' - Oct 31, 2005
What a jerk.Quote:
WILSON: Again, my name didn't appear in the indictment. There are instances of -- and you go to the Spy Museum here, you can see a number of high-profile people who served their country even though they had high-profile positions in different professions.
BLITZER: So you don't have any regrets about the Vanity Fair picture?
WILSON: I think it's a great picture. I think someday you will, too.
BLITZER: It's a great picture. But I mean the fact that ...
WILSON: I think someday it, too, will be in the International Spy Museum.
BLITZER: But you don't think it was a mistake to do that?
WILSON: No.
BLITZER: OK.
^ummm can you say "slam dunk"?
Ray....are you still there?
Whiteshiva too?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Earl
Hey ray, give my trophy to Whiteshiva. That way he'll have a pair. :)
isn't that the phrase that helped get the US into this mess in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Earl
now attaboy, you were a good boy by not giving a link to a boonie-esque blog (have a biscuit)....but the editorial page of the online edition to the wall street journal is not news...it's opinion.
and you didn't back up your claim....how did wilson "drag his wife into this"? in case you've forgotten, you posted it at the top of this page.....and until you can do that, this week's absurdly revisionist trophy still belongs to you.
What's this 'have a biscuit' crap?Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
You're a septic tank by G_D and we don't have no stinkin' 'biscuits!
There're freeking cookies!:rolleyes:
So we've heard the scenario of a pernicious Cheney seeking retribution against a diplomat doing his duty. Here's another scenario. Wilson lied when he said Cheney sent him to Africa. That's a fact. The White House investigated and found that Cheney didn't send him. So they released the facts that Cheney didn't send him, the CIA sent him and his wife who works for the CIA got him the assignment. That's a less sinister story. So by clearing up charges against Cheney they described what really happened. Did they know her status? Did anyone bother to check? I don't know. Wison's lie about Cheney drew attention to his wife because she, not Cheney, sent him. In other words people were saying "Cheney didn't send him. His wife got him the assignment." Doesn't that make more sense? And if doesn't make more sense it clearly describes how Wilson, the proven liar, got his wife mixed up in his intrigue.Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
Wilson is a liar who fantasizes about being a somebody, about making his mark in history, and about being a spy. The guy is a jerk. He's a fool and he made other's look like fools and he screwed up his wife's career because he is a liar who fantasizes about who he is. Should we send Wilson or George Souros or the Democratic National Committee the bill for this nonsense?
As far as the article coming from the opinion section of the Wall Street Journal can we really ask Wilson what his motives were? He's a proven liar. How can we trust anything which comes out of his mouth? The facts are he lied. He was jobless. His wife got him a job. Kerry gave him a job. He hoped to get a plum government job if he helped to get Kerry elected. The last sentence is opinion, but it's clear enough to me and this ain't science.
George "it's a slam dunk Mr. President" Tenet is a Clinton holdover. He sure helped to get Bush into a mess.
huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy
ohh.........you're referring to
i suppose this is as close as we'll get to a mea culpa, but it's a shame you tried to hide in the midst of all that vitriol.Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy
enjoy your trophy, and don't forget to keep attempting to re-write the history of the bush administration......you're still eligible to win in future weeks.
What are you drunk? This is an opinion: He hoped to get a plum government job if he helped to get Kerry elected.
Here's the facts: Wilson's lie about Cheney drew attention to his wife because she, not Cheney, got him the assignment.
You keep the trophy. You might need it. You never know when you might wind up on the steps of the BTS with cup/trophy in hand.
The Bush admin has been caught lying and lying again and yet you keep supporting their agenda ?Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy
2 different set of rules ?
Trying to bail your compatriot out? My post is about Wilson's conduct. How is that equivalent to a declaration of support of Bush's or Cheney's agenda?
c'mon now attaboy, chin up.
you know as well as everyone else that libby, rove, and fleischer went to the press and uncovered a CIA operative because her husband brought attention to the fact that they were using phony intelligence in the marketing strategy for their war.
three things to remember about the white house response to the wilson op-ed piece....
1. they attacked his wife.
2. she worked at the CIA
3. during a time of war.
her career aside, what do you think that did for morale in langley? during a time a time of war.
the US govt. sent wilson and he got the truth about pre-war intelligence.
you are attempting to put forth a highly partisan revision of history....that's why you won this week's trophy.
embrace it. live in the moment.
My scenario is more likely than yours. Mine has more facts and makes more sense.It sounds like you voiced an opinion or even distorted "the truth". :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ray
edited: Your problem ray is that your star in the story is a liar and you can't deny it. It's tough to build a story and support it when Wilson is a proven liar.
It's your topic so you can blab on all you want. Enjoy your lunch. It was my pleasure. :dance:
I do remember when Wilson made the claim about him being sent by the WH, but it was done to protect his wife. The WH instead of playing along, threw a fit because of his "hostile" declarations. The story could have ended there, but instead the WH decided to pursue Wilson like pitbulls even though WH PR was against it. This is the latter part that got nasty,
looks like attaboy is going to run away. too bad. hope to see him on the gonzalez thread!
in the meantime attaboy, why not contribute to libby's defense fund?
Libby Legal Defense Trust
or maybe you could be his pen pal when he's in federal prison for lying to the FBI and obstructing justice when questioned about a national security issue.
You left-wingers are in constant overdrive rewriting the Clinton years so have no room to talk.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey