Thread: Minimum wage....

Yea? Nay? Pros? Cons?

Let's discuss the government regulating wages and the possible benefits or negatives of such.

the govt. should absolutely regulate wages.....on both ends of the spectrum.

$7.25 isn't enough for single parent homes (only 15,000/year), and the exhorbitant CEO bonuses and retirement packages that have recently been in the media are a disgrace.

Hell I don't know, I thought 150 baht/day was doing pretty good.

I bring this topic up because right now I'm 'suffering' by taking a minimum wage job for convenience due to my planned trip to Thailand in March and subsequent moving to California after that. Rather than start work at a normal employer and immediately take two weeks off and then quit a few months later I figured I'd do something temporarily until I move.

On January 1 the MW here in Oregon went up 30 cents per hour. The kind of job I have right now is a simple one: I deliver packages using my own personal vehicle and I get reimbursement for mileage plus tips.

As as result of raising the minimum wage the owner not only lowered the mileage reimbursement but also raised the delivery charge. With the MW hike I would have made about $60 more per month due to increased wages (40 hours per week); now I end up losing almost $200 per month due to less mileage reimbursement and the increased delivery charge cutting into my tips.

The point being that if you force the business owners to raise wages they will find ways to cut benefits, thus, causing one's real income to decrease when the big picture is factored in.

I generally oppose mandatory minimum wages; I think there are better ways for the government to help the poor (such as tax credits) rather than an across the board mandatory hike. Mandatory bottom wages mean that everyone at the bottom get paid the same whether they work hard or are lazy and incompetent; it takes the competition out of wages for those who really work well and makes the owner pay them and the incompetent the same amount of money for unequal work done.

Originally Posted by surasak

I generally oppose mandatory minimum wages; I think there are better ways for the government to help the poor (such as tax credits) rather than an across the board mandatory hike.

many who earn the minimum wage don't file their tax forms. of course they should, but for any number of reasons they don't.


the minimum wage helps to ensure a small measure social justice for the most vulnerable.

Kansas is the only state to have a minimum wage lower then the federal standard, at $2.65/hour. However, workers that qualify under the Fair Labor Standards Act are required to be paid the federal minimum wage. Most workers earning less than the federal minimum wage are minors and certain classes of farm workers.

Minimum wage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

$2.65/ hour.

Originally Posted by raycarey

$2.65/ hour.

less than a Thai bar girl doing 1 customer per week

Originally Posted by surasak

Mandatory bottom wages mean that everyone at the bottom get paid the same whether they work hard or are lazy and incompetent; it takes the competition out of wages for those who really work well and makes the owner pay them and the incompetent the same amount of money for unequal work done.

In a nutshell, the minimum wage is set at a level of what one would need for survival without claiming any state benefits -in theory.
It is not an equalising regulation to punish performers, since rewards can be given in many forms, for example simply by a wage rise! Btw, there are idle dodgers and committed workers in all income brackets.

I have worked for far less than this myself for many years, either as a trainee, where the tarif is lower than MW, or in self-employment before my business became profitable.

But I do believe workers in large companies need to be protected, that's what union tarifs are for, and also people in any contract of wage dependency, which is regulated by legislation, including MW.

Of course there are plenty of exceptions, both legal and illegal, i.e. the 'black labour market'.

Tricky one this.

In general I would say that market forces should control the minimum wage. If people are prepared to work for less, then so be it.

Obviously in Thailand the minimum wage is very low, making Thailand competative with regard to unskilled workers (even though it's probably only enforced against 'foreign' companies), as opposed to the UK where the cost of living is much higher and so is the minumum wage. This, in turn, makes the UK very uncompetative in labour intensive industries, but that is determined by the economy in reality, despite having a minimum wage.

After all that waffle, I would say that developing countries benefit more from the MW than developed countries, as the developed countries would probably benefit more from immigrant workers doing unskilled work for less than the MW. The immigrants would be happy (and gradually move up the food chain) and the economy of the developed country would benefit from more manufacturing output.

Let's consider my job as a reference: delivering things. Even if I stayed working here for 20 more years I would never move about minimum wage (whatever it might be at that time).

However, if there was no minimum wage, would I end up making more than others after the same 20 years? Whether I find the person's address and return in 10 minutes or am a total moron and take 1 hour to return I get paid the same hourly wage either way. So where's the real incentive to be Mr. Speedy Delivery?

I think I agree that developing countries need a MW more than developed ones. Market forces should dictate wage levels here.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

In general I would say that market forces should control the minimum wage. If people are prepared to work for less, then so be it.

Well, that has proved to be disastrous in 19th century Europe, before the rise of socialism and state regulations.

Originally Posted by surasak

However, if there was no minimum wage, would I end up making more than others after the same 20 years?

It's minimum wage, not maximum wage, it's up to your employer if he wants to increase your wage for efficient and loyal service.
It would still be up to him without minimum wage, except you might have to start at an even lower level, without any guarantee of it ever rising.

But in this instance the government's meddling with wages has actually caused my overall income to decrease. I've discussed this with other people here in OR and the same thing is happening at otehr businesses. Wages are mandated to go up so employers cut benefits.

I would rather know that I'm being paid a wage due to my abilities than being paid a wage because the government mandates the wage.

[quote

$7.25 isn't enough for single parent homes ([/quote]

If you are making minimum wage you have no buisness producing hell-spawn.
You shouldn't be allowed to have a dog.Wages should be determined by the marketplace not by slacker socialists.

-texpatriate

Originally Posted by texpatriate

If you are making minimum wage you have no buisness producing hell-spawn.

impressive.

how about the widowed or divorced mother with two kids who gets laid off from her better paying job? or the physically disabled father (whether it be by injury or birth defect) who is more or less only capable to work in jobs that pay minimum wage? sorry to add a little gray to your black & white world.

btw, learn how to use the quote function.

-raycarey

Originally Posted by texpatriate

If you are making minimum wage you have no buisness producing hell-spawn.
You shouldn't be allowed to have a dog.Wages should be determined by the marketplace not by slacker socialists.

Min. wage is there so citizens can survive without needing to claim additional state benefits, with effectively the state supporting low-paying entrepreneurs.
Single parent households are quite common in the US, well, perhaps not in some rural Texan backwater, but statistically enough to be accounted for in the policies of the states towards the citizens.

Wanting to ban people from owning dogs on an income basis? - well, that's a novel tune, quite different from the usual fanfare of individualism and liberty sounding from your neck of the woods!

Raising the minimum wage will affect many small businesses like restaurants.

Also it seems the is some political pandering from the Pelosi crowd.
American Samoa will be exempt. Where the bulk of the workforce is employed by DeMonte which is based in San Fransisco!

I would rather the government expand the earned income tax credit instead of making it mandatory that businesses raise wages...that way those who really need and deserve the money actually get it.

Damn sure will. There was no min wage when I was young and started to work.
Went to this guy when I was 16 and he said sure he would hire me to build 3 miles of 3 strand barbed wire fence,, I asked him what he would pay me, He said "What ever you're worth" I said "Fuck that, I won't work for that kinda money" and got on my Indian and split.

the minimum wages sucks as it is - it should go up if anything.

Now in Britain the country is being taken over by East Europeans who are prepared to work for nothing - taking all the jobs off the locals at the same time as making the rich richer - hardly a policy for social success.

Originally Posted by Shustraya

the minimum wages sucks as it is - it should go up if anything.

Now in Britain the country is being taken over by East Europeans who are prepared to work for nothing - taking all the jobs off the locals at the same time as making the rich richer - hardly a policy for social success.

HMMMMM, Sounds just like the situation with America being invaded by south America !!!

Face it, in today's world the corporations only care about one thing-- MAKING A HUGE PROFIT--- They don't care if their employees are able to feed their kids and pay the bills as long as the investors get the return on their investment and the corporate heads get their high salary and end of year bonus !!!

wal-mart is a prime example.

when SAM Walton first started wal-mart his business was geared toward MADE IN AMERICA products and they paid the employees a decent livable wage !!! because SAM Walton wanted his employees to have a descent life and America its self to benefit from the empire that he was creating !!

now after SAM Walton died look what has happened to wal-mart. they import the cheapest products they possibly can and the wages they pay their employees are despicable!!!

Only one word can describe this type of business practice-- CORPORATE GREED !!!

Originally Posted by Shustraya

In my experience of doing MW jobs in my youth I figured the employers would pay everyone as little as possible regardless of how well they did the job.

I think the MW is a good thing because it makes these money grabbing bosses treat those at the bottom of the financial pile with at least a modicum of monetary respect.

Using your argument does the person working as a youth to earn a few bucks to buy an iPod deserve the same exact hourly wage as a person supporting a family? This is another problem with having a minimum wage: a person working a few hours per week shouldn't automatically make the same as one working 40 hours per week.

Originally Posted by KID

Originally Posted by Shustraya

the minimum wages sucks as it is - it should go up if anything.

Now in Britain the country is being taken over by East Europeans who are prepared to work for nothing - taking all the jobs off the locals at the same time as making the rich richer - hardly a policy for social success.

HMMMMM, Sounds just like the situation with America being invaded by south America !!!

Face it, in today's world the corporations only care about one thing-- MAKING A HUGE PROFIT--- They don't care if their employees are able to feed their kids and pay the bills as long as the investors get the return on their investment and the corporate heads get their high salary and end of year bonus !!!

wal-mart is a prime example.

when SAM Walton first started wal-mart his business was geared toward MADE IN AMERICA products and they paid the employees a decent livable wage !!! because SAM Walton wanted his employees to have a descent life and America its self to benefit from the empire that he was creating !!

now after SAM Walton died look what has happened to wal-mart. they import the cheapest products they possibly can and the wages they pay their employees are despicable!!!

Only one word can describe this type of business practice-- CORPORATE GREED !!!

I blame the punters as well.If you don't buy there,then they don't get business.We have the same type of company in NZ callad 'The Warehouse' It's full of cheap Chinese shite that the public go for.Cheap cnuts.Then they complain when a local business goes tits up.Stupid pricks.

A mate of mine bought a pair of shoes for $20 there.I asked him how long they would last.he replied "About a year,so who cares they are cheap" I then showed him a pair shoes that i had that cost me $200 15 years ago that were custom made etc.........Stupid prick.