Girlfriend's mother has just lost major face

[nidhogg]

Sadly, I tend to beleive this as "straight up". yes the Brother plans to go into the monkhood, and yes, they want to throw him a big fuck off party, and yes, they budgeted 50K to be divided between the family.

And yes, they expect the girlfriend of the farang to stump up half the money. A few points that cross my mind randomly.

The party wil not only be booze and food, but also in attendence will be other monks - and they get the normal donation - everyone who lives here knows the sort of things - buckets of foodstufffs, robes etc etc.

The family is probably "sincere" in thinking this will be good for the brother - who will most likely spend 2 weeks there before deciding its all too much like hard work and slinking back (seen that a few times). The fact that the family knows this -won't stop them from pushing the boat out....

The mothers/MILs (??) -if you don't give me, I will take from the loan shark is ooohhhhh so typical of upping the stakes.

While I kinda agree with the posters who go along the "fuck em" line - this does put a LOT of pressure on the girl friend - who has a whole life time of brain washing that "family comes first". Sadly that can be very deep rooted. Forcing her into a corner will put a lot of pressure on her and the relationship.

If I understand the current situation -she works, and stays rent free in OPs house? If so, she can provide some money. I would (and I expect howls of outrage) meet them half way. tell the g/f she must chip in 5K and I suggest the OP chips in 10K. And make it clear that the lot.

I suppose the problem is, that as I see it - Thai families are like this - they WILL beggar the whole family to provide a party for the waste of space son. Sensible? No. But they way it is - in many, many cases yes.

I personally have spent 10 year trying to find the fine line between making it clear that I am not the familys ATM, but that I am also not "stealing away the daughter". We try to help meet the family commitments, but NOT as a blank cheque and on a case by case basis. over time the missus understands this, and will screen the more opportunistic crap out, and we can discuss the difference between what is asked for - and what is needed.

[Marmite the Dog]

In most of Asia daughters are considered as commodities and not as loved family members (sons have that sole distinction), and until you realise that, you'll never understand why they do what they do.

[DrAndy]

the Thai-chinese family announced they wanted to throw a big F***k off party in his honour and that she should contribute half - around 25k - towards the cost of this, which is next week.

they want the party, they pay

mothing to do with anyone else

[withnallstoke]

Bruno.
Hope it's not a psychology masters you are doing, but if it is, you are having some of the best tuition Isaan can provide.
Surely thats worth 25 grand?

[Simon43]

Inform your GF that you have suffered a MAJOR loss of face by the MIL thinking that you do not have the funds for this (whether you do or not is immaterial).

Advise them that the MIL needs to make financial compensation (25k), to you for this very serious loss of face that has occured, which is much more than the loss of face that the MIL suffered when she ... er ..... loss face when making you loose face.

The thing with this loss of face issue is to go on the offensive immediately when you're accused of making someone loose face and accuse them of causing a much greater loss of face to you by accusing you of making them of loosing face (I think)

Simon

[DrAndy]

i believe it because i asked her in thai if it was true [english guy did'nt understand thai] and she got very upset and wanted to leave immediately

don't get me drunk because i am a complete jerk

yes, that speaks for itself

[jimmymck]

I personally have spent 10 year trying to find the fine line between making it clear that I am not the familys ATM, but that I am also not "stealing away the daughter". We try to help meet the family commitments, but NOT as a blank cheque and on a case by case basis. over time the missus understands this, and will screen the more opportunistic crap out, and we can discuss the difference between what is asked for - and what is needed.

I agree with that nighog, i have spent the last 3 years doing the same, at last the gf is starting to get the drift.. after a lot explaining how it is going to be and alot of sour looking faces from the rest of them.
As you say it is so drummed into these kids brainwashing them from a young age what is expected of them.

We will always be richer than them, fact ,because we get off our arses and work and don't have a bunch of fuckwits as family robbing us. Therefore will be seen as the ATM but you just have to draw the line and decide when you want to help them out. Its tough for the good girls that are out there, that want a different, better life they do get stick in the middle of it all.

The shit i see in this village never cease's to amaze's me, as many of the user's here have seen the same shit, i find these people a huge amount of them esp in Issan the biggest hypocrites i have ever come across anywhere..

All out this morning making merit with the monks after a night of gambling, getting wasted, after a day of stealing and sitting on their arses all day, all wanting the good fortune;ie cash, to come to them.wankers!!

I love it when i read that people say "Issan is the Real Thailand", well if it is (and i don't doubt that it is real ) and more tourists saw it, half the amount of tourists would never want to return.

Good luck anyway, i am going off track here , i hope your not getting scammed, i found a few trips to the UK (of course the Uk as it downside's) with the gf helped alot, opened her eyes to how we grew up and live , not in castles with maids everywhere etc..

[Rural Surin]

Fuck ém, you shouldn't even explain why, just tell them no.

If you love your GF and want to take it further to seperate her from her family is a good move.

Uh huh. Easier said than done...

[Butterfly]

Inform your GF that you have suffered a MAJOR loss of face by the MIL thinking that you do not have the funds for this (whether you do or not is immaterial).

Advise them that the MIL needs to make financial compensation (25k), to you for this very serious loss of face that has occured, which is much more than the loss of face that the MIL suffered when she ... er ..... loss face when making you loose face.

The thing with this loss of face issue is to go on the offensive immediately when you're accused of making someone loose face and accuse them of causing a much greater loss of face to you by accusing you of making them of loosing face (I think)

Simon

nice strategy, sounds like the voice of experience

[somtamslap]

The cheek of some of these people is beyond comprehension..get on the blower to mummy in law and tell her in plain English..Fuck you, you fucking BUFFALO Cnut..

That should put an end to any more of these outlandish requests..

[beppi]

Face saving measures are the order of the day here!
Your GF will lose face in front of her family if she doesn't contribute to the occasion at all. But, as everything in Thailand, the contribution is negotiable and the effort counts as much as the actual amount.
I hope it is not too late for the following suggestion:
Your GF should tell the family (possibly the brother, if that is easier than talking to the mother) that money is tight and she cannot (with apologies) contribute as much as requested, but she can offer amount X (I suggest half of the requested, if you can stomach it - and it should also be part her and part your money!). The amount offered must be enough so they don't have to cancel the party altogether, but have to scale back from their current lofty plans.
Then a few days later, she should announce to the family that she will keep her promise of amount X, but unfortunately can only give half of it now and will pay the rest in installments over the next Y months.
This way, you show your best effort and enable the party while clearly showing the tight financial situation. Let others deal with the rest (e.g. they can take a loan if they have to).
Hope this helps.
Remember: In Asia, you can only lose by stubbornly refusing out of "principle".
And: For good or bad, you "marry" a family, not just a person. If you cannot accept that, leave!

[Stumpy]

Here is my newbie input, I gave my TGF (38 yrs old) the readers digest of this post and she said that it is life in Thailand. As a Foreigner, whether you have money or not, YOU HAVE MONEY in their eyes. And if you want their daughter you are going to pay for it. She said a great portion(Especially up North) exploit this. She said this is why you can see a beautiful Thai women with a disgusting man. Its the money, its not that they really love them or will. She was curious why you would support the sex relationship with another man.

Her summation was you are foreigner and that separating her from the family will not work. She said unlike most westerners, Thai's have deep seeded family roots and obligations and that westerners should not come over here and try to get Thai's to break them. I tend to agree. From my point of view, it is a common theme and from what I have read on numerous sites this appears to be the case. I also have a real case going right now with my US friend. He was told 500K bht Sinsot. He said NO, it has been all out war. Anyway we want our cake and eat it too and a lot get mesmerized with the beauty. I have witnessed over the last few years that city raised girls are little more westernized and are leaving some of the deep roots behind. Beware, a lot come to BKK to make money to send money back home. I will say this, the younger the girl and the further north you go, the greater this family angst will exists.

In my case(sadly) my GF parents both passed away in separate events. She is survived by a wonderful sister and some cool aunts and uncles( I have not met them yet as my GF simply works all the time). She is a nurse at a major hospital.

As a guy to a guy I will offer this bit of input, Never ever "Force" a relationship. If you are suffering this anguish now you are probably in for a long haul. I say you cut your losses, tell her this is not the right thing to do to come between her, family and Thai cultural values and move on....

My comments from the cheap seats. Establish your future first, then date.

[Cujo]

What on earth could you be studying in Thailand?

[SEA Traveler]

don't let this MIL and family situation send you off the deep end. I would say that if you are not willing to put up with this type of event, get out of the situation with GF as soon as possible.... or, have her commit to you and be done with her free loading family. the requests for dosh will be never ending. one crisis event after the other. and in the end, you will be far worse off mentally and financially. run, Run, RUN.

[nidhogg]

Just to add - I think there are two misconceptions here, that this is a "farang" thing, and this is an "issan" thing. Its not.

I have had the same secretary for ten years. She is a pure bangkok lass (despises issanites!), poor background (parents are day laborours), put herself through most of her education - working and studying. Now has a Masters degree (paid for by herself). Guess what - she is hit up for exactly the same things. Father is sixty, pay for a party, brother (a total waster) is going into the monkhood, pay money, brother getting married (he knocked up a girl) pay money. Brother in jail, pay money. Sister (an other waster) needs a motor bike to go study - pay money. and so on. She is the only real wage earner in the family - and she pays, and pays and pays - despite the fact she is married (guess what, to another waster). I really do feel sorry for her. She will continue paying for her family and siblings untl the day she dies - but hey - she also pays monthly life insurance so they will all be taken care of when that happens.

Makes me quite mad.

[SEA Traveler]

[quote=nidhogg;1700399]Just to add - I think there are two misconceptions here, that this is a "farang" thing, and this is an "issan" thing. Its not.

I have had the same secretary for ten years. She is a pure bangkok lass (despises issanites!), poor background (parents are day laborours), put herself through most of her education - working and studying. Now has a Masters degree (paid for by herself). Guess what - she is hit up for exactly the same things. Father is sixty, pay for a party, brother (a total waster) is going into the monkhood, pay money, brother getting married (he knocked up a girl) pay money. Brother in jail, pay money. Sister (an other waster) needs a motor bike to go study - pay money. and so on. She is the only real wage earner in the family - and she pays, and pays and pays - despite the fact she is married (guess what, to another waster). I really do feel sorry for her. She will continue paying for her family and siblings untl the day she dies - but hey - she also pays monthly life insurance so they will all be taken care of when that happens.

Makes me quite mad.[/quote


Makes one wonder. it's all Bravo Sierra the way some Thai's expect other family members to support them for their whole entire lazy life!

[Jesus Jones]

I met an english guy with an absolutely gorgeous wife, he owned a nice restaurant and a big house, the girls friends told me all about how when he is in the UK, she has a thai boyfriend, i believe it because i asked her in thai if it was true [english guy did'nt understand thai] and she got very upset and wanted to leave immediately
555 don't get me drunk because i am a complete jerk, but still i felt sorry for the guy because he believd she was devoted to him, i know this isn't relevant, but thats part of the reason i am so sceptical

Leave the country? Her name wasn't Pacharee, Pepsi or one of her other names she goes by, Jade?

[hopskimoet]

My wives family wanted to me to pay the land debt off. All of £1600. I politely told her to tell them to go fuck themselves. This debt was arranged before I met my wife and has absolutely nothing to do with me. I said to the missus, what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot....?

The silence was golden.

[Jesus Jones]

Personally, i wouldn't contribute a penny, then let's see how strong your relationship really is! Might be best go find out now rather than later and being out of pocket to boot.

[withnallstoke]

What on earth could you be studying in Thailand?

Scamming, cheating, bullshitting, stupidity, greed, the art of safe driving, how to stay independent, fine cuisine, temple-ology, jet ski good practice, family dependence, architecture, concrete making, littering, own doorstep shitting, corruption, one-upmanship, debt, banditry, etc.

[hopskimoet]

Learning how to use a service station bog without getting fecal matter on yer fingers.

[Stumpy]

Just to add - I think there are two misconceptions here, that this is a "farang" thing, and this is an "issan" thing. Its not.

I have had the same secretary for ten years. She is a pure bangkok lass (despises issanites!), poor background (parents are day laborours), put herself through most of her education - working and studying. Now has a Masters degree (paid for by herself). Guess what - she is hit up for exactly the same things. Father is sixty, pay for a party, brother (a total waster) is going into the monkhood, pay money, brother getting married (he knocked up a girl) pay money. Brother in jail, pay money. Sister (an other waster) needs a motor bike to go study - pay money. and so on. She is the only real wage earner in the family - and she pays, and pays and pays - despite the fact she is married (guess what, to another waster). I really do feel sorry for her. She will continue paying for her family and siblings untl the day she dies - but hey - she also pays monthly life insurance so they will all be taken care of when that happens.

Makes me quite mad.

Let me add to my previous post, I agree 100% it is not exclusively a "foreigner" thing or "Issan" thing. It is a Thai culture. Foreigners do however get exploited much more due to the perception of greater financial wealth. True to fact example. The US friend I mentioned above was asked for 500K bht, her sister married 1 year ago to a Thai and he paid 200k bht. Clearly evident, in this case.

Also my GF gives money to her sister who is married and has a 15 year old daughter. She makes far more then they do combined. She has never asked me for any money in fact she pays for stuff for us all the time. I was very clear up front with her when we started dating. that I am living off savings and have a reasonably strict budget. However marriage is not on my radar and with her parents deceased a sinsot is probably not something I will contend with.

[genghis61]

... they are really using this as an excuse just to see how rich or poor we really are as my tgf's mother rang her up stating that we have to pay 25k.

... wasn't good enough for the mother in law and announced my tgf is no longer welcome back home as a result of a major loss of face.

back to the OP, and "Girlfriend's mother has just lost major face"

where did she lose it exactly? In whose eyes, and who cares?

A lot about nothing.

[sabaii sabaii]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dug
What on earth could you be studying in Thailand?
Scamming, cheating, bullshitting, stupidity, greed, the art of safe driving, how to stay independent, fine cuisine, temple-ology, jet ski good practice, family dependence, architecture, concrete making, littering, own doorstep shitting, corruption, one-upmanship, debt, banditry, etc.

i take it there's no Go Gos where you are then ?

[withnallstoke]

i take it there's no Go Gos where you are then ?

Correct.
And i forgot to mention fornication, masturbation, intimidation, united nation, constipation, cash evaporation, tinned carnation and english bastardisation.