What does it take for a Thai to listen

[EmperorTud]

You seem to assume I am unhappy or miserable?

Judging others by your own standards again Ant.

[Norton]

I was right, she said, but this is the way they were brought up to do it, the way their ancestors did it

Maybe, just maybe their ancestors were much wiser than we think.

Think about it.

[AntRobertson]

You seem to assume I am unhappy or miserable?

And why wouldn't I? It's a fair assumption to make. Bascially if you subtracted every single one of your posts on here that was a negative post about Thais or Thailand they'd be a handful of posts on movie reviews and cars left. I would say a few on food too, but then I see you even managed to turn one of those into a diatribe the other day.

Judging others by your own standards again Ant.

And that's different from what you do with Thais how?

[Chairman Mao]

What does endlessly railing against Thailand on an internet forum(s) acheive?

It's simply people posting the truth (or their views) as they see it.

And you spend a lot maligning an entire nation of people who do things differently.

The 2 stories on this thread, Keda's and the OP show quintessential acts of Thai behaviour (OP) and Thai culture (Keda's).

Both of which cover social behaviour here quite well. Both of which you could substitute 'retarted child' into the place of the Thais and they would still make perfect sense.

No disrespect meant of course.

[Smeg]

What Smeg failed to point out was that those the constantly whine about it on internet forums are acheiving precisely zero. Nada. Nothing. However it's like there's nothing else in their life but the misery so they cling to it like a drowning man to flotsam.

Millions, if not billions, of people around the world keep a journal of their life, including detailing all the daily unpleasantries and grumbles. Using forums to do so allows people to share their experiences in an informal and anonymous basis. Why do you have a problem with that? And more to the point, why do you spend your time reading them if it upsets you enough to regularly retaliate with insults and put-downs?

Now, what percentage of the world's population leave their country to live in a country where the people are much poorer and less educated? I'd guess at 0.001% or less. But Ant has done it, so that automatically makes it a wonderful thing to do, for the "special" people able to achieve it.

[AntRobertson]

Millions, if not billions, of people around keep a journal of their life, including detailing all the daily unpleasantries and grumbles. Using forums to do so allows people to share their experiences in an informal and anonymous basis. Why do you have a problem with that? And more to the point, why do you spend your time reading them if it upsets you enough to regularly retaliate with insults and put-downs?

I have a problem with it for the reasons I have already outlined; it's barely disguised (not at all in some cases actually) bigotry and racism. It's not constructive and it achieves nothing other than to reinforce the beliefs of those indulging themselves that they are somehow inherently superior. Journals are private Smeg, why don't you keep one?

Now, what percentage of the world's population leave their country to live in a country where the people are much poorer and less educated? I'd guess at 1% or less. But Ant has done it, so that automatically makes it a wonderful thing to do, for the "special" people able to achieve it.

Now you're just being silly, do at least try to leave the personal attacks out of it. At least stop attributing things to me and attacking them.

[Chairman Mao]

Maybe, just maybe their ancestors were much wiser than we think.

Think about it.

I work in a company who've been operating for over 100 years.

We had to do basic marking.

When explaining the unbelievably inefficient system they use, they piped up proudly that they've been doing it the same way for over 100 years.

"How many employees did the company have then?" I asked.
"About 4 or 5"
"How many now?"
"3,500"

The exact same system is in place, and no doubt still will be in another 100 years.

In 10 seconds work I could draw up a system that would save 3,500 people 2 days work! But nope, don't change things here, don't be the one to break the flow. Good ole hilarious Faulty tower land.

[justwingit]

^^so why is it that everybody that i talk to in the "highly educated" country i left
want to get out of there but just havent got the balls to up sticks and make the move

[Smeg]

I have a problem with it for the reasons I have already outlined; it's barely disguised (not at all in some cases actually) bigotry and racism. It's not constructive and it achieves nothing other than to reinforce the beliefs of those indulging themselves that they are somehow inherently superior. Journals are private Smeg, why don't you keep one?

YOU are the bigot. Who are you to tell people how they can and cannot use forums? And who has the gun to your head forcing you to read it?

Now you're just being silly, do at least try to leave the personal attacks out of it. At least stop attributing things to me and attacking them.

Silly? Oh, and see I edited the post from 1% to 0.001%, because it is an extremely unusual thing to do. You have convinced yourself that because you have done so, you are somehow clever.

Now, what percentage of the world's population leave their country to live in a country where the people are much poorer and less educated? I'd guess at 0.001% or less. But Ant has done it, so that automatically makes it a wonderful thing to do, for the "special" people able to achieve it.

Some people, it seems, are simply ill-equipped mentally or maturity-wise to live in a foreign country or amongst a foreign culture.

[AntRobertson]

YOU are the bigot. Who are you to tell people how they can and cannot use forums? And who has the gun to your head forcing you to read it?

Calm down Smeggy, I'm not telling anyone how they can/cannot use forums. You're tilting at windmills and rather ironically denying me the right to voice my own opinion, telling me what I can't say on an internet forum.

Now you're just being silly, do at least try to leave the personal attacks out of it. At least stop attributing things to me and attacking them.

Silly? Oh, and see I edited the post from 1% to 0.001%, because it is an extremely unusual thing to do. You have convinced yourself that because you have done so, you are somehow clever.

Yes, silly. I haven't done anything of the sort, you're the one that has made that up, attributed it to me, and are now using it as the basis to launch an ad hominem attack on me - which of course is to say no basis at all.

Could you perhaps try sticking to the points? Constantly telling me what I am/aren't saying and going off on that is all a bit pointless. Disingenuous even.

[Spin]

ironically denying me the right to voice my own opinion.

In the same way you are trying to deny tuddy his opinion?

[Smeg]

^ Careful Spin, you'll confuse Ant. He can't see that Tud's opinions are on-topic, whereas his own opinions are simply wanting Tud to shut up - hardly on-topic.

[Lorenzo]

The 2 stories on this thread, Keda's and the OP show quintessential acts of Thai behaviour (OP) and Thai culture (Keda's). Both of which cover social behaviour here quite well. Both of which you could substitute 'retarted child' into the place of the Thais and they would still make perfect sense. No disrespect meant of course.

lol

of course

[AntRobertson]

ironically denying me the right to voice my own opinion.

In the same way you are trying to deny tuddy his opinion?

When have I ever done that?

Careful Spin, you'll confuse Ant. He can't see that Tud's opinions are on-topic, whereas his own opinions are simply wanting Tud to shut up - hardly on-topic.

Smeg,

All of my posts in this thead have been on-topic; it's you that is dragging it down with personal attacks instead of addressing the actual points that I've made.

[Norton]

When explaining the unbelievably inefficient system they use, they piped up proudly that they've been doing it the same way for over 100 years.

Agree, hardheaded and stubborn to a fault. When it comes to marketing and in general modern business practices, Thais and companies should be far more willing to learn from westerners. The several successful ones do and have excelled.

When it comes to fishing customs however, I think we are far from expert. Our efficiency in catching all the fish and killing all the game ensured in many western countries there were no more to catch in subsequent years. My "think about it?" comment on keda's post was simply to point out maybe if all the fish were caught there would be no more next year. The locals may not be able to explain why they use the little nets but that doesn't mean following the ways of their ancestors lacks "common sense".

[Spin]

When have I ever done that?

you forgot the sarcasm smilie surely? All you done on this thread is complain about his opinion. And it is just his opinion, the fact that 99% of them are negative about Thailand is not important

[AntRobertson]

When have I ever done that?

you forgot the sarcasm smilie surely? All you done on this thread is complain about his opinion. And it is just his opinion, the fact that 99% of them are negative about Thailand is not important

Balderdash. Quite the opposite actually, I've queried him on his opinion. Not the same thing at all; asking him why he does what he does isn't the same as telling him not to do it.

I know I'm in the minority here, TD on the whole tacitly accepts the constant belittling of Thais/Thailand. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't voice any opinion does it. Only one person is being subjected to personal attacks and being more-or-less told to shelve it in this thread and it most certainly ain't Tuddy.

[Spin]

I've queried him on his opinion

Too funny! Thats gotta be the understament of the decade

Anyways, I aint joining in this argument, Alls I wanna know when Rays sending his dog to Strollers place for training

[DrAndy]

Sometimes I stand and look forelornly at the wasted conduit. One time a fisherlady followed my gaze and asked me what I was looking at, and I said hey all the water in this part of the river is coming through there...do you think all the fish come from there also? - she eyed the dumb farang suspiciously before replying yes of course, all the fish come from there, and then turned to get on with dipping her net.

Doomed, doomed to ignorance these people are, doomed as a dog that chases cars.

Yes, you turn up and can immediately see what hundreds of Thais over the years has not; you are very clever

but, what if there was a good reason for not netting the 1 metre gap? maybe it was tried and the current was so strong it broke the nets or carried away the fishermen?

or some other perfectly good explanation you do not know about?

maybe it would be worth asking first before judging

I have never yet met a Thai who would not give a good explanation for what he was doing - sometimes I have been quite suprised at their astuteness

[DrivingForce]

Good post #90 Keda I'm, not going to requote it all, but I'd green ya if I could..
The conclusion is sad though, mostly because of the weighty truth behind it.. But here ya go for the effort anyway!! you old fisher person you..

Where the logic of your suggestion fails them is then they wouldn't be able to call themselves fisher people anymore because then they would be CATCHING, not just fishing anymore..Besides how would they be seen as village heros if it was that easy?

[keda]

When explaining the unbelievably inefficient system they use, they piped up proudly that they've been doing it the same way for over 100 years.

Agree, hardheaded and stubborn to a fault. When it comes to marketing and in general modern business practices, Thais and companies should be far more willing to learn from westerners. The several successful ones do and have excelled.

When it comes to fishing customs however, I think we are far from expert. Our efficiency in catching all the fish and killing all the game ensured in many western countries there were no more to catch in subsequent years. My "think about it?" comment on keda's post was simply to point out maybe if all the fish were caught there would be no more next year. The locals may not be able to explain why they use the little nets but that doesn't mean following the ways of their ancestors lacks "common sense".

Ouch, my fault, didn't consider to mention it, and ftr the details are part of my hmm, not diary, let's say notes and observations, Life in the Village...

1 - it's a temporary river, when there's heavy rain, water comes down the mountain heading towards the reservoir, swells through the rice paddies, and becomes a river.

2 - Killing off the wildfire is something I was aware of...on one of my earlier visits, when I was commuting daily from Sakon, I noticed and mentioned the distinct virtual absence of birds, and was told there used to be lots of birds years ago but the village was dirt poor so they were eaten. The only ones you will see now, and rarely, is the odd midget type that they sell all over the place for release so they can be caught and sold again.

Aware of this, I did clarify at the time that if used the catchall net should be for their needs and the weenies tossed back, otherwise the villages downstream (if any, I didn't know) would get pissed off. As it happens I needn't have, because there is indeed a village downstream but after the river merges with a proper river to head for the reservoir (dam), by which time there are few if any fish left in that stretch and the reservoir is stocked from other temp and real rivers...btw it's thriving with fish, from spratsize to ginormous.

[kingwilly]

predictably this thread has degenerated into a rant of "westerners are superior to the thai monkeys:" thread....

[keda]

Not at all superior...try different.

[Texpat]

Did someone say Thais don't listen?

I've been absent today. Forgive me for not reading the whole six pages.

You see, in my shiny new house, there's a door that hangs sort of wonky leading into the guest bathroom. It's been like that since the day we moved in (May, last year). I mentioned it on the initial joint inspection between owner (me) and builder and again two months ago during another walk through. The builder noted it.

As my wife was making herself beautiful this morning about 10:30 I decided a shower would be in order and since she was in the big bathroom, I strode across the house to use the guest bathroom. I washed my face and scrubbed my fleshy bits and had a go at my teeth. Towel dry and then reached to open the door as my task was finished.

The knob spun faster than a newbie under a veteran Pattaya SLAGDOG!! But the door didn't open. So I tried it again. The knob spun, but the bolt inside the doorknob didn't budge.

So there I stood in my towel spinning this fcuking doorknob for about five minutes before I bellowed for my wife to come have a look. She spun the knob on her side with the greatest of ease. "It spins fine on my side she proclaimed!"

After a few clipped, terse words, she scurried off downstairs to fetch my toolbox.

Now this door isn't one of those flimsy plastic jobs, or even a cheap balsa wood number that I could have taken out with one well-placed shoulder. It's hardwood (pradouk) and louvered on the top half. I really wasn't in a hurry to do anything, so I told my wife to get on the horn and tell the builder that I'm locked in the bathroom -- he'll know which one.

As he lives a very short distance away, he appeared just as I finished taking a shit. He immediately confirmed my wife's finding that indeed the knob spins, but alas, still no freedom for the banged up Texpat spending his day locked in the bathroom -- on about an hour at this point.

Together they spun and spun the doorknob speaking in a foggy blurred speech I didn't comprehend -- not because of lack of understanding -- rather the red tide slowly enveloping my rather warm and slightly trembling head.

At one point I recall telling them to stand back, the top-half louvers were about to become toothpicks. My wife calmly urged patience and assured me that I would be buying a new door if I did that (not cheap) and it wouldn't make a good impression on the twat that stood mere inches from me -- spinning and spinning the useless fcuking doorknob.

I had already figured what went wrong, but the saga would be compounded by Thai reasoning and possibly personal safety (his) if I wasn't sprung soon. Like I said, the door was improperly hung. When the bottom of the door was completely closed against the doorjamb, also wood, there was a gap of about 1/4 inch at the top. Possibly the door was warped/skewed/bent. The resulting strain on the doorknob every time the bolt was set in the jamb, was slowly fcuking the doorknob.

The builder called the woodworker.

Twenty minutes later -- I flossed and brushed my teeth again and noticed that my eyebrows are getting a bit thick -- the woodworker shows up and is filled in on the crooked door as if it just happened yesterday. The builder emphasizes that this must be remedied immediately, and my wife threw a zinger in when she said muan ni dii kwaa.

Then the woodworker started spinning the goddamn doorknob. Visions of my building contract that I hadn't laid eyes on in about a year started flashing before me. How much can a fucking door be? I repeatedly kept returning to the eight- or nine-thousand baht figure and with each passing minute enduring the two geniuses and my humble bride engaged in such meaningful and troubleshooting, high-tech engineering banter such as, "Has this happened before?" and "How about that nayok of ours?" I was ready to bust out.

Just as I backed up and tested the broken-hip-worthy traction of the tiles, a breakthrough! Woodhead loosened the doorknob. I could peer through at the three standing there looking sheepish on the freedom-side of life. And to think it's only been two hours.

I started thinking about the things I took for granted like posting on TD and shagging my missus and having a beer. I could almost smell my release. Woody grabbed a long screwdriver and a hammer from my toolbox and proceeded to gouge and slam and tear into that bolt that just didn't want to release. His exuberance was palpable. I silently thought to myself that this might not be a good idea. He then grabbed my needle-nose pliers and started twisting the casing that held the bolt, still firmly lodged into the doorjamb.

You see where this is going.

Only after breaking off the tip of my pliers on the sturdy metal casing, and having sufficiently mangled it to the point of non-recognition. He admitted it's not giving up. Teary-eyed I witnessed the entire sad affair through my two-inch peephole to the free world.

Plan A: turn the knob to eternity and die of malnutrition or a fcuking brain aneurysm -- failed

Plan B: take the doorknob off and slide the bolt out, releasing the door from the jamb -- failed

Plan C: Mangle the metal bits inside the locking mechanism so badly that it will give up and let loose -- failed.

Plan D: You'll love this.

Knock out the louvers in one big piece (a set of 30 inch-and-a-half slats that are cased in a solid frame, affixed into the door)

Thirty minutes later I could see freedom. The louvers had been gently knocked out of the door frame and all I had to do was leap through the hole in the door wearing a bath towel. Piece of cake.

Later this afternoon, Woody returned my door, straightened and louver panel reattached, and the builder walked up my driveway with a new doorknob in his hand. I resist the temptation to put a legally-binding value on those three hours of my life. The elevated blood pressure will probably cost me a week or two -- at the end. Untold number of poignant, clever and thought-provoking TD posts can never be recovered. Perhaps a few dozen pats of my dogs. They probably hate me now.

But I'm better for it. I have a new appreciation for POWs and I have a deep, deep understanding of what the OP is talking about with a thread titled: What does it take for a Thai to listen?

[DrivingForce]

^Then it's really going to kill you if I tell you I could of had you out in about 10 minutes tops without any of that damage or rise in blood pressure..

If not through the doorknob which is most likely, then definately by taking out the hinge pins..