Pensioner going back to the UK.

[charleyboy]

Good evening guys and gals, long time no speak!
Wondering if someone on here can answer a couple of questions.
I've got a couple of mates that are ageing.
The state pension they receive is abysmal.
What's the best way for them to get back to the UK and update their out of date pension?
I was of the belief that the best thing they could do is, return and ASAP, register at the social services that they are back living in the UK and get their pension updated.
Register where you are living and get on the council tax register for voting etc...
What's the situation with them getting their pension increase and the time they leave to come back and not have the increase revoked?
Any help would be appreciated.
Once again, Charleyboy is live and kicking!

[taxexile]

what exactly do you mean by "out of date pension"?

if you are living in thailand then you are not entitled to the yearly "triple lock" increases.

to be eligible for the increases you need to be living in the uk or one of the countries that has a social security arrangement with the uk, such as the eea countries and switzerland, but not australia or nz. i believe expats living in the philippines are eligible.

to obtain the yearly increases you will need to prove one way or another that you have returned and intend to reside in the uk. they wont send the increased amount to a bank in a country that does not have a social security agreement with the uk.

Habitual Residence Test The Habitual Residence Test (HRT) is used to decide if you normally live in the United Kingdom (UK), the Channel Islands, the Republic of Ireland, or the Isle of Man (known as the ‘Common Travel Area’ (CTA)). You can be subject to the HRT if you have been outside of the CTA for any length of time and you apply for housing assistance, or for benefits such as Pension Credit, Universal Credit, Housing Benefit, or Council Tax Support (Council Tax Reduction Scheme in Wales). Separate HRT decisions are made for each benefit claim or application for housing assistance. There is no legal definition of what habitual residence actually is, nor how long you need to have been in the UK to establish habitual residence. Factors that should be taken into account include: ⚫ what you have done to establish a UK home before and after arrival ⚫ where you expect to live in future ⚫ your reasons for returning to the UK ⚫ the length of time you spent abroad ⚫ family ties in the UK and in the country you have come from. The HRT is applied to the person making a claim for benefit or housing, so if you are a couple, try to decide who is most likely to pass the test.


The UK State Pension is based on your National Insurance contributions and credits. If you paid contributions in more than one country, you may be entitled to separate pensions from these countries. Contributions made in a European Union (EU) country or a country which the UK has a reciprocal agreement with may help you get a UK pension. The UK State Pension is payable anywhere in the world, but you only receive annual pension increases if you live in the European Economic Area (EEA), Switzerland, or a country which the UK has a reciprocal social security agreement with. If you have not been getting the annual increases, your pension is increased to the current rate when you return to live in the UK. Contact the International Pension Centre to let them know you will want to receive your State Pension in the UK and for further information.

[charleyboy]

Tax, thanks for the reply.
I mean, he's been here and never received an increase.
His government pension is paid into his account in the UK.

He can move in with a relative, register with the council etc...
Once he's settled and in receipt of his increased pension.
What's to stop him from getting on a plane and flying back?

[malmomike77]

^ Nothing, just like when he flew out the first time

[katie23]

@charleyboy - taxexile is correct re: the Philippines. For UK expats living in PH, their pemsions are indexed linked (or something like that). I learned that from TD - from Simon43, I think. PH is not very popular among UK expats/ retirees - it's more popular among the 'merkins (USA ppl). Btw, in case your mate will think of transferring to PH - there are many typhoons and earthquakes, not to mention power outages (but it depends on the area).

[Pragmatic]

For what he stands to gain by returning back to the UK, just so's he can gain an increase in pension, leads me to believe he's in a desperate position. He knew the score when he first left the UK so why didn't he cover his arse when leaving? I certainly wouldn't go back to the UK , with a higher cost of living than Thailand, just for a small percentage increase in my pension. If things are that simple as to , once having got the increase, move back out here, we'd all be doing it really. But we're not.

[Backspin]

What are you calling an abysmal pension ?

[Shutree]

I certainly wouldn't go back to the UK , with a higher cost of living than Thailand, just for a small percentage increase in my pension.

If he is realy on the edge, then there would be other benefits, such as medical. If his state pension has been frozen for say, a decade, then the increase could be significant.

Bottom line, we don't know his full circumstances.

I am interested in the answer to the question about what level of pension he'd get after, say, being in the UK for a year then moving offshore again. Has anyone here done that?

Of course, he could simply forget to tell them that he has left UK, then he'd get the increases. This is obtaining by deception, a criminal offence. I would not consider it, so my pension is frozen, but I have met a few British pensioners here who do it. I wonder what would happen to them if they return to UK as 85-year old invalids with no assets. I cannot see it being in the national interest to send them to prison.

[Pragmatic]

Of course, he could simply forget to tell them that he has left UK

He knew the score when he first left but didn't go down the illegal road then so why now? Even if he does go back he has to serve a 6 months wait, I believe, to get any state benefits i.e. NHS or pension increases.

[malmomike77]

NHS

he'll be lucky, if he needs anything done he'll be at the back of the 5 million queue.

[Pragmatic]

he'll be lucky, if he needs anything done he'll be at the back of the 5 million queue.

I totally agree. Tony Blair came up with a corker this week.

As a result, Sir Tony called for an NHS overhaul, including working with more private providers and partners to introduce 'co-payment options' that would allow Brits to pay to access treatment faster or 'co-pay' towards care that is approved by the NHS but it would not usually fund.

May as well just stay here and pay.

[Shutree]

He knew the score when he first left but didn't go down the illegal road then so why now?

I'm not making a recommendation, not even a suggestion. Only noting that others do it.

Even if he does go back he has to serve a 6 months wait, I believe, to get any state benefits i.e. NHS or pension increases.

Quite possibly. However the Inland Revenue consider you tax resident from the day you land, if you have an intention to remain. That's the government, take with one hand and give nothing back with the other.

[taxexile]

those with dwindling or meagre resources should never burn their bridges when leaving the uk. maintaining a presence, even a virtual presence such as a relatives address and bank account, will gain them access to a whole host of benefits when they are forcef to return with their tail between their legs when the beer money runs out. benefits such as health care and even (low) levels of financial security unobtainable to a foreigner in thailand.


yes, its gaming the system, and illegal, but they do it for illegal immigrants and asylum seekers and if they do it for them, then they should do it for a brit who has fallen on hard times ... even if he has foolishly spent his savings on sick buffaloes, alcohol and prostitutes.

as the country turns more socialist by the day, it could be jackpot time, and if you work on your suntan, apply lipstick before returning and can claim gayness and or mental health issues. you will be treated like a returning hero.

kerching!


but even with a full uk pension, he wont have enough to qualify for a retirement visa.

[Pragmatic]

but even with a full uk pension, he wont have enough to qualify for a retirement visa.

Using an agent he might just scrape by.

[PAG]

I guess it all depends on the number of years he has been in Thailand whilst on a frozen pension viz a viz the UK value now. Obviously unlikely to be a huge amount, though the 10.1% rise for this year isn't to be sniffed at.

[Iceman123]

Fess up Charlieboy it’s no mate - it’s you

[malmomike77]

Obviously unlikely to be a huge amount, though the 10.1% rise for this year isn't to be sniffed

the pension is now £208 pw. If he's been away for a decade he's probably getting less than £150 currently so quite an increase but well below the VISA requirements

[taxexile]

if it is being paid into a uk bank account then it should have been increased automatically every year, i think i am right is saying that to have a uk bank account you now need a uk address, it is becoming almost impossible to operate a uk bank account these day without evidence of residence,(unless he has an offshore account in jersey or the i.o.m.)

[PAG]

if it is being paid into a uk bank account then it should have been increased automatically every year, i think i am right is saying that to have a uk bank account you now need a uk address, it is becoming almost impossible to operate a uk bank account these day without evidence of residence,(unless he has an offshore account in jersey or the i.o.m.)

No, I have a UK bank account (HSBC) into which both my DWP and Company pensions are paid and do not get annual increases from DWP. You do need to have a UK address to be able to open a UK bank account, and I know that some (not all) banks are closing accounts of those no longer resident.

[armstrong]

I find it best to burn my bridges so it narrows down my options. Less stressful that way.

[DrWilly]

Fess up Charlieboy it’s no mate - it’s you

I thought that was obvious from around post 1 or 2 of this thread.

[taxexile]

I find it best to burn my bridges so it narrows down my options.

best to cross that bridge when you come to it. oh hang on ..... bridge not there !

[Edmond]

Safe trip Chucks.

[Shutree]

some (not all) banks are closing accounts of those no longer resident.

A friend of mine had a properly conducted although barely active current account at Barclays for about 40 years. He retired to Penang, later Barclays told him the account was closed. He couldn't access the funds, I never found out if he resolved that.
I keep my Barclays account with a UK address, only use the Barclaycard for online purchases in the UK and use a VPN in the UK when I access either the app or the website. My pensions go in there and I transfer money to Wise before sending it offshore, so that Barclays don't see those transactions. It would be extremely inconvenient if they pulled the account and very unfair, I've had that account for 50 years.

[charleyboy]

Thanks for some of the answers!
I only received my UK state pension about 18 months ago, have a decent private pension, rented my house out for 21 years and sold it in January, so it's hardly, fucking, likely to be me!
My state pension won't be increased as they've known for a long time that I'm not resident in the UK.
I have always had an address for my bank account in the UK.
The guy in question is about 73, gets approx 500 pounds monthly.
Has the smallest pension from the RN I've ever heard of, mind you he only served a few months before they made him leave due to an illness.
I doubt very much that he'll go back, but if a three month turnaround were possible it might be worth his while.
Thanks once again.
Charleyboy.