Thai Military Service / Conscription and the Luk Kreung

[David48atTD]

I've asked this question before on that other Forum and didn't get a definitive reply about the Thai Military Service / Conscription and the Luk Kreung.

I saw this quote from Gazza below and that prompted me to re-ask the question about dual citizens and the question of compulsory Thai Military Service / Conscription

Used to be that half-Thais were not allowed to join the armed forces.
Now it's optional.

Background article on Thai Military Service / Conscription courtesy of Reuters


A Buddhist monk with an anxious frown sits huddled next to a transgender at a school in Bangkok. The unlikely pair are both waiting to speak to officers during an army draft.


When it comes to serving in the army, Thai men over 21 face a choice: they can volunteer to serve six months, or opt to take their chances with an annual lottery. If they draw a black card they can skip military service, but if they draw a red one they must serve for two years.



Crowds of young men's friends and relatives watch in excitement as a recruit pulls a ticket out of a plastic bucket, determining whether or not he will have to serve in the military.


With a few exceptions, all men in Thailand over 21 must either volunteer for the army or chance it with this recruitment lottery.
Only those considered physically incapable of service, the mentally ill and those who have significantly altered their physical appearance - such as transgenders - are exempt.

Some wealthy and well-connected Thais have been known to pay bribes to keep their sons from military service, but others see the army and its 9,000 Thai baht ($310) a month salary as a way out of poverty and a means to discipline unruly sons.

Ends ...

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Chatting with my Thai other half, she mentions that her Nephew recently paid his bribe and was exempted from the Lottery. The current rate for an average SomChai is BHT 20,000 ... but, of course, you have to make sure you paid it to the person who has the power to decide.

I asked, what if SomChai volunteered? He could choose his path and could elect to choose the Navy over the Army. Apparently, he can, but the reply was that often/normally the Navy is 'Full'.


So, back to my original question ... Has anyone with Luk Kreung kids had experience in dealing with this issue?


For the boys sake, who are fully bi-lingual, I really would like to fully understand the issues.

Thanks in Advance.

[Pragmatic]

If Luek Krung, with dual nationality, it's law , at the age 18, to decide on which nationality they want. That's supposed to be how it is, but if it's enforced I don't know.
It used to be that if one got red balled for conscription one could pay money to by-pass that. My missus says it no longer happens.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions: Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain.
A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals.

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/w..._THAILAND.html

[thaimeme]

The real and deeper question might be asked.

Military buildup and consciousness.
Military for what?

[David48atTD]

^ Jeff ... Mate, I'm only trying to solve the small fry issues ... I'll let you tackle the big picture stuff.

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^^ Pragmatic ... you raised a very interesting question and I didn't reply straight away as I wanted to do a little further research.

The article you quoted was an interesting read ... and news to me.

But, when I looked a little deeper, it's also dated.

"It was produced prior to March 2001" and relied on "Citizenship laws are based on the Nationality Act of 1965 with Amendment No.2 AD 1992 and Amendment No.3 AD 1993."

A bit of further research, and I'm surprised just how little information is searchable in English.


From another Forum, and a guy I respected ...

The Act gives a child, born to a Thai and foreign parent, the opportunity between ages 20 and 21 of renouncing Thai citizenship, if they so wish. You may also chose to note that there is no penalty for not choosing - after which they can continue to hold dual citizenship.
Section 14
A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of the father or mother according to the law on nationality of the father or mother, or a person who acquired Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) is required, if he desires to retain his other nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of 20 years, according to such forms and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.


Context is important here - the second version of the Nationality Act in 1992 DID have a penalty for people not choosing (ie automatically forfeiting of Thai Citizenship if a choice was not made) but that was done away with in Version 3 of the Act, released later in 1992.


Subsequent versions of the act have kept that language exactly the same, except for an amendment in 2008 making this clause apply to those both for a foreign father or mother.

Gender equity and all that...


Later ...


Q: Does Thailand allow dual nationality?
Does Thailand allow its citizens to have dual nationality? For instance, can a Thai national keep her Thai citizenship and acquire a foreign one? If so, can that person then have two passports?

Answer 1: “Yes, Thai citizens are allowed to have dual nationality and own two passports. If you are born in Thailand and have at least one Thai parent, you automatically have Thai nationality and can apply for a Thai passport.

However, if you are only half-Thai and were born and raised aboard, and do not have Thai nationality, you can still get a Thai passport, but must contact the District Office that your Thai parent is registered at and have your name added to the Thai House Registration list.

For more information contact the Phuket Passport Office Monday to Friday 8:30am to 4:30pm at 076-222 081.”
Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:20:07 PM Worrawan Pakamas, Phuket Passport Officer responsible for checking nationality and identity.


Answer 2: “Although you are allowed to own two passports, you must leave Thailand on the same passport you used to enter The Kingdom.”
Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:20:07 PM Lt Col Napat Nusen, Head Supervisor of the Phuket Immigration office.

source: Issues & Answers




Dual nationality for Thais

Question: If a Thai woman marries a man from the US and she later becomes a US citizen, does the Thai woman lose her Thai citizenship?


Answer: “Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality.

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette.

For Thai children with dual nationality, the Citizenship Act (3rd issue) 1992 states that a Thai national with a foreign father may declare his or her intention to revoke Thai nationality within the year following the child’s 20th birthday.

The law does not mention that the child will automatically have his or her Thai citizenship revoked. If the child does not declare his or her intention to revoke Thai citizenship, that child will still hold Thai nationality.” Monday, April 12, 2004 626 PM Satchaphand Atthakor, Deputy Director-General, Consular Affairs Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

source: Issues & Answers

That is the Thai side of the equation.

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The Australian answer is ...

Dual citizenship

​It is possible to hold citizenship of two or more countries if the law of those countries allow. This is known as dual, or multiple, citizenship.
People can become dual citizens automatically, or after being granted citizenship of another country.

For example, an Australian citizen may automatically gain citizenship of another country through marriage, while a permanent resident of Australia may become a dual citizen by becoming an Australian citizen.
Prior to 4 April 2002, Australian citizens who became citizens of another country lost their Australian citizenship automatically.

So, based on that, the citizenship issue is resolved and I'm back to my original question in the OP.
.

[DJ Pat]

I'm finally doing my Thai ID card passport thing in the next month purely for the sake of convenience. Each time I've flown out of Heathrow on single tickets the check in staff call a supervisor and ask me ten questions as to why I didn't buy a return and how the Thai immigration wouldn't let me in until they saw a return ticket in my hand. In particular this year twice the questioning has become more stern

This is also despite me showing paperwork for Thai parentage and telling them I live in both countries.

This has never happened, nor has it ever in the past. Seems only in the last year or so have check in staff got on the power horses and quizzed me on this.

On arrival I get the normal 30 days then I just go to the immigration a week later and ask for x amount of extra days I want, I normally write 365, as I don't usually plan. All I show is my birth certificate, write that I am staying with family and its all ok. Oh and it still costs 1900 Baht.

Ten years ago I was warned off getting Thai ID for fear of being called up for military service. Apparently now it's not an issue. This is only through word of mouth, I wouldn't be of much use to them at 43 anyway.

[Pragmatic]

Answer 1: “Yes, Thai citizens are allowed to have dual nationality and own two passports. If you are born in Thailand and have at least one Thai parent, you automatically have Thai nationality and can apply for a Thai passport.

Thais love to confuse legal issues. It gives them a right to interpret the laws how they see it at the time of the problem. Just my opinion.

PM Abhisit Vejajjiva is a Thai citizen but, like it or not, it appears he is also a British citizen.

PM's dual nationality | Bangkok Post: learning

[CaptainNemo]

If Luek Krung, with dual nationality, it's law , at the age 18, to decide on which nationality they want. That's supposed to be how it is, but if it's enforced I don't know.
It used to be that if one got red balled for conscription one could pay money to by-pass that. My missus says it no longer happens.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions: Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain.
A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals.

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/w..._THAILAND.html

ChalkyDave has trouble with this one.
My kids are all under 18 and have two passports... I thought people like DJ Pat had managed to keep both passports?

update:
OK just read Dave's thing...
I am the only one in my family with one passport now - it could be handy to have two.

[DJ Pat]

PM Abhisit Vejajjiva is a Thai citizen but, like it or not, it appears he is also a British citizen.

He was born in Newcastle and visited his home country a few times on holidays including a gap year trip with Boris Johnson


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva

[bindog]

Ten years ago I was warned off getting Thai ID for fear of being called up for military service. Apparently now it's not an issue. This is only through word of mouth, I wouldn't be of much use to them at 43 anyway.

Who knows? My wife won't let her son get a Thai ID card until he turns 30, says he can be called up for military service only if he's under 30. He travels on his Australian passport when he visits Thailand.

My daughter (Luek Krung) went in to get her Thai ID card and the officer wouldn't give her one - said you have to speak Thai to get one. Wife took daughter to a different office, no worries at that one.

I have read somewhere btw that Luek Krung cannot become an officer in the Thai military. No idea if that is true or not. There go your dreams of "unexplained wealth" though if it's true, David48!

[tomcat]

Some wealthy and well-connected Thais have been known to pay bribes to keep their sons from military service

...some?...

[thaimeme]

PM Abhisit Vejajjiva is a Thai citizen but, like it or not, it appears he is also a British citizen.

He was born in Newcastle and visited his home country a few times on holidays including a gap year trip with Boris Johnson


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva

It's been suggested that Thai isn't his fist language - that's obvious by the way he speaks....deliberate and almost stumbling occasionally.

The hairs on my arse are more Thai than the scoundrel, Marky...

[Pragmatic]

My wife won't let her son get a Thai ID card until he turns 30

It's compulsory for Thais to get their ID cards aged 7. They can't get free medical treatment without showing their ID cards. I just found out my daughter, age 9, has to show her ID card before she can sit her school exams. It applies to all.

[Pragmatic]

It's been suggested that Thai isn't his fist language - that's obvious by the way he speaks....deliberate and almost stumbling occasionally. The hairs on my arse are more Thai

You could say the same of someone recently departed.

[thaimeme]

It's been suggested that Thai isn't his fist language - that's obvious by the way he speaks....deliberate and almost stumbling occasionally. The hairs on my arse are more Thai

You could say the same of someone recently departed.

Yep - most definitely.
Things we can't talk about.

[DrB0b]

Answer 1: “Yes, Thai citizens are allowed to have dual nationality and own two passports. If you are born in Thailand and have at least one Thai parent, you automatically have Thai nationality and can apply for a Thai passport.

Thais love to confuse legal issues. It gives them a right to interpret the laws how they see it at the time of the problem. Just my opinion.

PM Abhisit Vejajjiva is a Thai citizen but, like it or not, it appears he is also a British citizen.

PM's dual nationality | Bangkok Post: learning

Nong Mark got a lot of stick for alleged draft dodging too.
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2008/...and-the-draft/

[Chico]

David don't know if its changed if son is not listed on the,Thai Tabien Bahn, he won't be called up according to a thread on the other forum.


Thai Military Obligation For Dual Citizenship Thais?

[Pragmatic]

I believe it's law in Thailand that the child is registered within 15 days of birth at your local Amphur if born in Thailand. Good chance I could be wrong.

[Chico]

Simple answer when he reaches a certain age take him off,they use the Thai Tabien Bahn to locate people,if he ain't on it they can't locate him.

[Pragmatic]

Simple answer

My BiL avoided the draft because he lost his index fingernail, right hand, as a boy and he failed the medical. True .

[Chico]

another way get a dodgy doctor,to sign a certificate.

[Chico]

One things for sure my son ain't going anywhere near the lottery.

[CaptainNemo]

I believe it's law in Thailand that the child is registered within 15 days of birth at your local Amphur if born in Thailand. Good chance I could be wrong.

Good chance it doesn't matter.

[David48atTD]

The boys were born here, so they are on everything and have Thai Passports.

As a side thought ... I was just pondering that, if they did military service, thinking the Cadets in a Western Country, they would automatically be disqualified for potential service in the Thai military?

[Chico]

contact them and ask them.

Royal Thai Armed Headquarter
127 Royal Thai Armed Headquarter Changwattana Road Laksi, Bangkok 10210
Phone: 0-2278-8500 Fax: 0-2298-5735

[Luigi]

They can't get free medical treatment without showing their ID cards. I just found out my daughter, age 9, has to show her ID card before she can sit her school exams. It applies to all.

Thai school exams.

Better to aim towards (at least) iGCSE etc. through the British Council.

Not difficult, not expensive, far, far, far better.