How Am I Ever Going to Learn?

**stroller** · 07-07-2006, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Shrinking Violet

The book I started out with was excellent, can't remember the name or publishing house. Author's surname was Smyth and it was published in england

Can't remember the title, either.
It came with a cassette and I also recommend it to learn reading, writing and speaking THai for beginners.

Honestly, in learning Thai I wouldn't get too serious about learning grammar or 'high', polite Thai. The way people interact everyday is different.

I had that issue when I moved to England, I probably know more English grammar than the average Brit you'd meet in t' local pub - pretty irrelevant as far as everyday spoken language is concerned.

**Skulldigger** · 07-07-2006, 09:30 PM

Do you ever find yourself disagreeing with street signs?

Yes, but nothing a few good hard kicks couldnt fix. People look strangely at me as I pummel them into a pulp though.

**buadhai** · 07-07-2006, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Skulldigger

Yes, but nothing a few good hard kicks couldnt fix. People look strangely at me as I pummel them into a pulp though.

Have you dealt with "soowannapoom" yet?

**friscofrankie** · 08-07-2006, 12:07 AM

One sign Sticks with me; "Charp Curve" on the road from Sukothai to korngaen Found it odd there was sign, in Thailand speaking in a Mexican accent.

**qwerty** · 09-07-2006, 11:41 PM

My understanding of Thai is quite erratic. Sometimes I catch enough words to understand whole sentences.

I was sharing a taxi with a couple of Thai women co-workers the other day and I heard one of them say to the other 'Farang's sound like Kathoeys when they speak Thai', or something to that effect. My immediate response - spoken in a deep, masculine voice - was to say 'No we don't!'. The next day, (I'm a master of the quick comeback

) I pointed out that we usually learn Thai from women and, as we have to copy the intonations of their speach, we tend to sound a bit like women when we speak Thai!

**Curious George** · 10-07-2006, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by buadhai

...I'm at the point of deep depression over my failure. I've met some great people here and it would be wonderful to be able to talk to them....

When my wife came to the US 15 years ago, she tried with vengeance to help me learn Thai. Besides packaged learning programs, I tried to memorize the alphabet and all the sounds. The object was to be able to read and speak Thai, and be able to use the Thai-English dictionary.

I have failed miserably, in that when I try to speak Thai, no one has a clue as to what I'm attempting to say, including my wife. I do well with words or phrases I've heard over-and-over, to the point I can't screw-up.

I think much of this inability to learn a second language stems from one's brain function. I can repeat numbers given to me, many years later. I still remember my parents original phone number from nearly 60 years ago. Give me any number, fairly complex or not, and I'll remember it. Tell me a Thai word with its meaning, and while using all "memory techniques" to plant it into my brain, it's lost within an hour.

Two stories of some relevance:

1. While born in the US, my family and relatives spoke German, when getting together. That means I've heard the language at a very young age. In school, I took two years of German, and aced the classes, with everyone telling me that I spoke it like a native. The first time I went to Germany for a holiday, I had to give up my trying to speak "Deutsche", and was forced to communicate in English, because no one understood me - and this was 35 years ago when only the younger Germans could be relied upon to speak some English.

2. You may not believe that typing on a keyboard, or tapping a key for Morse code (that's got to date me) is similar to learning a new language. The brain processes these things similarly. To follow through with this thought, my maximum speeds for typing and keying were limited. I never was able to get above 60 WPM typing on the keyboard, or 25 WPM with the 'key'.

I have finally given into the fact that I will never learn Thai to the degree I had hoped for. Farangs speaking nearly fluent Thai, tell me I just don't try hard enough. When I hear this, I become very pissed, because I know I gave it a concerted effort. I believe everyone has a different capacity for learning, but at no time should this be an excuse for not trying. In my case concerning language, if you repeat it often enough, it will finally penetrate my skull. Personally, when using the recommended learning tools, I don't do very well.

**peterpan** · 10-07-2006, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Goddess of Whatever

Originally Posted by buadhai

15 months

Someone here has been here almost 5 years but his Thai is still shite so.. no worries!

don't feel bad about it MTD, I have been here 13 years and now my 4 year old daughter speaks better Thai than I do, (so does the 2 year old) How does that work?
Even now when I order a Cock in the restuarant next door they bring me a pepsi, The words don't even sound the same. Next time will order a Bepsee and see if I get a Cock.

**endure** · 10-07-2006, 06:07 AM

[quote=Curious George]

Originally Posted by buadhai

I think much of this inability to learn a second language stems from one's brain function.

No, it stems from the fact that you live in an English speaking country. If you want to learn to speak Thai properly you have to move to Thailand...

**buadhai** · 10-07-2006, 07:02 AM

Yep, the old "Sleeping Dictionary"....

**Marmite the Dog** · 10-07-2006, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by peterpan

don't feel bad about it MTD

I don't.

Actually, I had a very nice conversation with a 4 yo Thai kid yesterday. Her Thai vocabulary was only about 10 times greater than mine, but she understood everything I said which was very gratifying. I feel I have reached a new high point in my Thai language abilities.

**buadhai** · 10-07-2006, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Curious George

I think much of this inability to learn a second language stems from one's brain function.

I agree with this; and I think it's especially true with Thai. I learned the Japanese "alphabet" (100+ characters) in an afternoon on the train. I've never been able to learn the Thai alphabet.

Even though I've only vacationed in Japan and never lived there and only studied what I needed to be a tourist, my Japanese is way, way better than my Thai. I'm sure I've spent 100 times as many hours studying Thai as Japanese.

IMHO it's all about the sounds. Thai is really a simple language: straightforward syntax, no nasty verb conjugations, simple vocabulary. But, unless you pronounce it precisely you won't be understood. And, I just can't do it.

I know that "bpai" (go) starts with an unvoiced, unaspirated, interlabial stop. I know what it supposed to sound like. But I just can't produce it.

It's especially frustrating for us English speakers because English is such a forgiving language when it comes to pronunciation. We're used to hearing so many different accents and speech from people with so many different abilities that we're able to use logic, analysis and context to decipher utterances. Thai's just can't do this.

For example, Ms. B can easily understand a poorly formed English sentence like "Go yoo weah?", but if I say "bai nai" instead of "bpai nai", she's baffled.

Grrrrr.

**buadhai** · 10-07-2006, 10:10 AM

As for the alphabet, look how many times Mr. Gor Gai appears in various disguises:

กภถฎฏฦณฌญ

First, there he is naked. Then with a crop facing left, then right. There he is with a bow tie and then with the same bow tie, tied wrong. There he is with a tail, then a fancy tail and then an even fancier tail. And, finally, with a double chin.

How's a far sighted old geezer like me supposed to tell 'em all apart?

**ChiangMai noon** · 10-07-2006, 10:12 AM

I can read thai pretty well, so long as it is in a nice computer based font.
not a hope with the hand written stuff and i still struggle with the large capital type font you see on posters and stuff.

**buadhai** · 10-07-2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

I can read thai pretty well, so long as it is in a nice computer based font.

Yeah, readable, but so hard for me to memorize because they are so similar.

With Japanese, for example, there are no two characters in either Kana set that are even remotely similar, so memorizing them is a snap.

**Marmite the Dog** · 10-07-2006, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by buadhai

But, unless you pronounce it precisely you won't be understood.

I would put money on none of the people who live year you being able to pronounce Thai precisely.

I still think you're trying too hard and speaking too slowly. Speed it up and mumble away and you'll be understood very easily I reckon.

**RandomChances** · 10-07-2006, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by qwerty

I pointed out that we usually learn Thai from women and, as we have to copy the intonations of their speach, we tend to sound a bit like women when we speak Thai!

I learnt most of mine during extended drinking sessions with local farmers, so I guess I don't have the Katoy thing

**friscofrankie** · 10-07-2006, 11:59 AM

Lot of Time I get that "ARAI NAA???" when I first speak Thai to someone. Take 'em a minute to realize What was said. Getting more confidence now, I know I am speaking correctly "Chat" and "Took" (not always but a good majority of the time) and if necessary repeat myself in the same tone/pronuciation. For the longest time I would try and adjust the tone/pronunciation to be understood, this, of course fucked things all up.
My Ol' lady kept after me to just repeat as first pronounced, as I was speaking correctly, just that many folks are not prepared to hear Thai. You then blow the situation out of porportion when trying to adjust your ennunciation. Lot of Thais are a bit limited in imagination.
believe it or Not Poolie's got some good advice, Drinking can help yu get throught the shyness when speaking Thai allowing a more natural flow of the tones, long and short vowels; Speaking the language is a bit like singing in public, a little liguid lubrication can help.

**buadhai** · 10-07-2006, 12:20 PM

^ I'm sure you're right. I tend to be that way....

**Mr Earl** · 10-07-2006, 12:47 PM

Buadhai sounds to me with all the study you've invested like you might be ready for the total immersion phase of language acquisition.

Find someplace to stay for a month or two where you only use thai. Hear thai speak thai, pretty soon you will be thinking thai.

I will come, guaranteed.

**buadhai** · 10-07-2006, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Find someplace to stay for a month or two where you only use thai. Hear thai speak thai, pretty soon you will be thinking thai.

Well, right here would be perfect. The only one around who speaks English is Ms. B, but I can't get her to switch to Thai; she's too intent on improving her English. But, I think you're right. I need to sink or swim.

**friscofrankie** · 10-07-2006, 02:24 PM

Refuse to speak english. She'll come around. Remnd her what country you're in and that you ain't never goin back! Workedd for me. Now we get into political deiscussion and I am WAAAAAY over my head. Only way to really learn man, sink or swim.

**buadhai** · 10-07-2006, 02:34 PM

^ You're right. I gotta dive in and just do it.

**Mr Earl** · 10-07-2006, 06:13 PM

Yea it really only hurts at first then it gets better.

I know from learning french and spanish.

I'm working up to the thai myself. I've studying for a year now and feel like I don't know much.

**keda** · 07-09-2006, 08:55 AM

From personal experience, took a while and a bit of thumping, but now we rarely speak in Thai...if lady is learning Engrish, get her to understand that she can only learn the language she uses, so if she keeps reverting to Thai...

keda

**Storekeeper** · 07-09-2006, 09:19 AM

I think they understand you better when you say "Kap" about every third word and throw "Louie" in once in awhile. Also seems you have to act like your angry even though you're not.

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