Buying another rice farm - drawbacks?

**sranchito** · 04-07-2013, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by ricefarmer

y'all explain what 23 rai is to Arkansas rice farmer in acres. Enjoyed the thread, sounds like I need to buy land in Thailand.

2.5 rai to the acre.

**poorfalang** · 11-07-2013, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by mikeR

Nice thread this,

Having some cash saved up for the future, I am speculating using them on some land in Surin.

Fertilizer (800) and harvesting prices (500) mentioned earlier in this post seems to still be about right according to my mother in law, but she is saying they harvest bestween 700 and 1000 kg per rai (selling weight).

Does that seem right?

ask them how many kilos in a ton and you see what they are talking about,

it can vary so much, do they do (nam na) do they throw the seed and plough the latter will give a smaller harvest,
but 700-1000 per rai
rubbish

**sranchito** · 11-07-2013, 09:53 PM

One ton per rai is about right. We normally get about 3 ton to the acre.

**Cobragold** · 25-09-2013, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Ricefarmer, if I am not mistaken, there are different grades of rice. I do not think the rice you are growing is the same they are growing in Thailand. Prices vary according to those grades from what my Thai lady tells me.If we have any southeast asia rice experts in the crowd, am I wrong or am I right?

Indeed there are and the stuff they grow here in the province of Suphanburi usually ends up in Ethopia or some poverty-stricken country as it's an inferior grain.

The wife was at Big C one day mulling over all the different varieties of rice for sale and the rice gal suggested a particular Jasmine Rice from Issan - like around Surin/Buriram/Roiet/Si Sa Ket etc since that variety is the best Thailand can grow. This gal said she wouldn't feed Suphan rice to her dogs!

Having said all that though some of these farmers around me do make a tidy income but it's real hard work.

Yes there are different grades of Thai rice, if you grow the cheaper grade you get less. Top grade Thai rice fetches around $2.50 per kilo in the richer asian rice eating countries, it is called Thai Hor Mali rice. If you can grow the Indian brasmati veriety you can get up to $3.50 per kilo. So if you do this for a living it makes more sense to grow the type that will make the most money.

**rickschoppers** · 25-09-2013, 06:51 PM

^
Makes sense, but I would think the higher grade rice requires a particular soil and nutrients or else everyone would only grow the high priced rice.

One thing I don't see discussed here is the fact that if you grow rice, you should not have to buy any from the store each year and is a savings. When I was thinking about buying some rice land, I was think more about supplying the family with their staple and less about profit.

My BIL went in with a couple of other families and grew rice a few years. He needed my truck to haul the rice and paid me in about 10 bags. It lasted quite awhile and fed the family for months. Saved me some cash at the grocery store.

Has anyone calculated how much they spend on rice each year for your Thai family?

**jamescollister** · 25-09-2013, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

^
Makes sense, but I would think the higher grade rice requires a particular soil and nutrients or else everyone would only grow the high priced rice.

One thing I don't see discussed here is the fact that if you grow rice, you should not have to buy any from the store each year and is a savings. When I was thinking about buying some rice land, I was think more about supplying the family with their staple and less about profit.

My BIL went in with a couple of other families and grew rice a few years. He needed my truck to haul the rice and paid me in about 10 bags. It lasted quite awhile and fed the family for months. Saved me some cash at the grocery store.

Has anyone calculated how much they spend on rice each year for your Thai family?

Securing your rice supply can save a lot of money over the year, up until a few years ago never had to buy rice. Loaning the pick up truck, iron water buffalo and a few bags of fertilizer gave us a cut of the harvest from extended family.
Things have changed, lots of tractors and trucks around, so now make a deal with one of the cousins to buy direct at harvest price. Also told the family who live with us, FIL, MIL, BIL and his wife and 2 kids, it's a 1/3 deal, you pay or I will buy potatoes. They can afford to pay as they can afford the payments on new cars. Jim

**IsaanAussie** · 26-09-2013, 07:32 AM

This thread has intrigued me. It appears that little is known about rice farming Thai style as opposed to elsewhere. Here it has been more cultural than farming for profit. Rice in Isaan is a sign of status, your crop feeds you, supplies your seed and is exchanged to buy necessities. It is life's staple not just food. The straw feeds your animals and the animals fertilise the rice. The extended family works together to plant and harvest. The sheaths are stacked and dried, the rice threshed, bagged and stored in the small rice bahn.
But that is all changing very quickly is rainfed Isaan. The driving factor is labour shortage. That has two effects, firstly forces mechanisation, secondly increases the cost of harvesting by hand in those paddies where machines cannot work. The harvestors started off filling bags with rice which then had to be spread out and sun dried before it rotted. Again a labour issue and one that had to be done quickly. The cost of spreading and drying wet rice makes it only just worth the effort with the alternative being to sell it "wet" straight from the field to the rice merchants at a baht or so less a kilogram. The merchants would then dry and sell the rice. The harvestors are now fitted with bulk tanks which are emptied straight into waiting trailers. This saves two bag fillers on the machine and a team of guys to hump the sacks out of the paddy.
Going right back to the start, most people hire the tractor to prepare the ground and employ a team to spread the seed with the tractor ploughing it in. Another few guys spread the two applications of fertiliser at a price. Then the harvest.
The future for rice farming here is to use a fully equipped contractor who has all the machines needed to farm the rice with minimal labour. You supply the land, he does the rest. We will see seedling planting machines and airblowers used to spread fertiliser. Anything to reduce the labour cost.
More machines has meant increased competition and has reduced costs, whereas farming labour continues to get more expensive and harder to find both numerically or in terms of skill.
Remember this though if you see opportunities here to invest in the new way. It has been done, it has all been done before by people seeing a quick buck. But apart from the few very early adopters, no-one has or will make constant profits if at all.
The rice prices are set and the inputs are getting more expensive. Currently a net profit after costs of 4,500 baht per rai is as good as you will get as a grower. If you are thinking about a harvestor, then regardless of how hard you run it, the season is at best 6 to 8 weeks per year and assume the BS talked about rai cut per day without breakdown or bogging or.... you may cut 20 rai per day. So say 50 days running or 1,000 rai per year returning 800 baht per rai and the sales guy has you believing your million baht investment will return 800,000 per year. Bullshit!
IMHO and from personal observation, that is more like 400 to 500 rai maximum and the damage to the machine will limit its useful life to a few years.
I will say it again to stress the point. Rice farming in Isaan returns a maximum of 4,500 baht per rai per annum if you sell the entire crop at the right moisture content. That is all there is regardless of what you invest!
Of course if you don't sell but store it, then a lot will be given again, eaten by mice, and more than you can imagine eaten by the family, ducks, chickens and dogs. The midnight shoppers of the family will sell pickup's full to square debts and buy whiskey. You have to hold next years seed back, if you can. There won't be much left, it will be old season rice and possibly full of mouse shit anyway so will sell for less if at all.
Welcome to Rice Farming Utopia!

**Nark** · 29-09-2014, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by ozthai

Can anyone tell me the value of a Rice farm if I were to sell it? I have 27 Rai in Kong district, Korat about 140 k/m North of Nakon Ratchasima and about the same South of Kon Kaen, right next to a small village. It is situated at the end of a concrete road about 150 metres from the village. It is bordered by the main Klong. I was offered $20,000.00 USD but that seemed a little cheap as I paid nearly that much for it 10 years ago. It has a title which has been oficially surveyed by the government with surveyor marks. I think it is called a channote title. Excuse my ignorance but I have left most of this to my Thai wife. I asked the local bank but they said they could not help me. Can one get an official valuation of the properties' worth? Any help would be apreciated

Is your land still available? We will go up to Nakorn Ratchasima next week for family visit and like to scope out any available land while up there. Sorry can't PM you directly since I'm new here. Thank you.

**thailazer** · 29-09-2014, 09:03 AM

Lobster.... The land sounds cheap enough, but like the other posters have said, do your due diligence on the figures you are being told. Getting 8300 baht a rai up here for a year's rental would be on the ultra high side. Still doesn't sound like a lot of risk for a future investment.

**Pragmatic** · 29-09-2014, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by ozthai

Can one get an official valuation of the properties' worth?

Any bank would gladly loan you money if the land has 'Chanote' title. To give you that loan, on producing the papers, they will gladly give you a valuation. 'Chanote' titled land is as good as money in the bank.

**donald36** · 29-09-2014, 12:08 PM

All the figures on growing are very interesting but are all historic,what about the future ?
The rice market is completely screwed and the government suggest they will take 7 years to pay off the accumulated losses ,one thing for sure is there will be no huge populist handouts for rice farmers or for that matter any other subsidised farm produce --the Prime Minister was recently laughing at the rubber farmers trying to get subsidies by suggesting maybe they could sell all this excess rubber on Mars !
Having listened to my Thai relatives over the years i am amazed at the optimism and lack of real facts when it comes to growing/rearing anything ,lets face it farming was any good they wouldnt be dirt poor
For anyones interest my wife is currently renting out poorish Cassava land for 300 baht a rai and hoping to get 500 baht a rai for some better land which a base when considering what the capital value of land is

**piwanoi** · 29-09-2014, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by donald36

All the figures on growing are very interesting but are all historic,what about the future ?
The rice market is completely screwed and the government suggest they will take 7 years to pay off the accumulated losses ,one thing for sure is there will be no huge populist handouts for rice farmers or for that matter any other subsidised farm produce --the Prime Minister was recently laughing at the rubber farmers trying to get subsidies by suggesting maybe they could sell all this excess rubber on Mars !
Having listened to my Thai relatives over the years i am amazed at the optimism and lack of real facts when it comes to growing/rearing anything ,lets face it farming was any good they wouldnt be dirt poor
For anyones interest my wife is currently renting out poorish Cassava land for 300 baht a rai and hoping to get 500 baht a rai for some better land which a base when considering what the capital value of land is

Don , I suppose some may think you are some what of a pessimist , personally I think being a realist is nearer the mark ,this article which I posted in the other thread about Rice ,says it all ,the days of big bale outs for the Thai farmer are long gone , Rice farmers must help themselves | Bangkok Post: opinion

**Hoops** · 02-10-2014, 02:14 PM

Guys, this is an old thread. Did the OP get sucked in to buy the land?

"12 rai of rice land which they rent out to the tune of a little over 100k a year."

You wouldn't get a quarter of that today! Or back then.

**piwanoi** · 02-10-2014, 03:11 PM

^Hoop By "sucked in" I presume you mean Conned ?

**fishlocker** · 09-10-2014, 12:42 PM

I was going to reply with a long story about my fathers brothers living in North Dakota having being born of immigrants from the east. One uncle had many children to help farm the land.Looked to me he did not do too well.The other Uncle invested in the articulating tractors (DEER, CASE) Had forever expanded with more "sections" as others failed in farming.This was in the 1970's.How was land bought at a price worth paying at the time?Desperation? Winners,losers? Machines making the vast amount of land manageable? Can one establish sound security on borrowed money?Can one incorporate into land "ownership"in THAILAND? I personally would not invest in something (anything) that I could not afford to loose.Not too be too much of an ass but if it were me I might sell or rent my land out and travel in the cool months.

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