Thread: Farming Good or Bad Idea?

Khonwan, similar story, wife' no farmer, but a school teacher, the only thing I had ever grown were tomatoes before.

Kids are young, will see what happens over the years, but we have already done the Australia bit, kids born there. Wife has no interest in returning to live and do the dreaded work.
Like you I have been taking less and less responsibility in the day to today running of the plantations and factory. Wife is gaining confidence dealing with the buyers and workers, even threatening her older brother with the sack if he didn't do as told, She has to learn, if or when I die the family will want it divided out among them, after all Thai girls do as daddy says. Jim

Originally Posted by andy62

Hi Crepitas, only have small land about 5 rai, but ideal for my plan for a small house, and the aquaponics! yes it would be better to make a life and be there.

5 Rai and you want to go into farming! Forget it mate, my wife and I have 15 rai and have been farming rice for 7 years, my final conclusion is it is not worth it. The small profit that is acceptable to Thais will be peanuts to you

Agreed the profit per rai is low, but not worth it? I think it is. To my wife and family it is an obligation and the rice sustains them. Occasionally they sell some to meet the bills but profit is not the motivation.
Our farm is a total of 16 rai, much the same. Neither of us will ever make more than a Thai farmers income at this size purely with rice or any other crop. But there are other posters on this topic with more land that make a decent living.
5 Rai of something other than rice or an integrated mix of crops, animals and fruit can produce a better income, but it is very labor intensive. Not for your retirement as most would define it.

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Our farm is a total of 16 rai, much the same. Neither of us will ever make more than a Thai farmers income at this size purely with rice or any other crop. But there are other posters on this topic with more land that make a decent living.

They make more monies than you based on they own more land than you IA but in obtaining that land their expendature has been somewhat more so in proportion they don't make that much more than you proportionately.
My missus has a nice little set up going doing money lending. She gets 10% per month and collects her interest daily from people that are known personally to her. She does loans up to 10,000 Baht per individual and she has no end of customers. She doesn't promote herself as a money lender and only gives when people approach her. I know 10% is high but it's the local rate and undercutting could provide problems. So why go the farming route when there are other easier options out there.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Our farm is a total of 16 rai, much the same. Neither of us will ever make more than a Thai farmers income at this size purely with rice or any other crop. But there are other posters on this topic with more land that make a decent living.

They make more monies than you based on they own more land than you IA but in obtaining that land their expendature has been somewhat more so in proportion they don't make that much more than you proportionately.
My missus has a nice little set up going doing money lending. She gets 10% per month and collects her interest daily from people that are known personally to her. She does loans up to 10,000 Baht per individual and she has no end of customers. She doesn't promote herself as a money lender and only gives when people approach her. I know 10% is high but it's the local rate and undercutting could provide problems. So why go the farming route when there are other easier options out there.

I am afraid you are incorrect. I am just bumping along the bottom living from day to day financially, but as I said different things motivate different people.
You are correct, small term high interest loans from "friends" is unfortunately often the only way village folk can obtain funding. Strictly illegal of course but it would seem that until commercial banks extend farming loans there must be an element of look the other way. With a majority of people reliant on farming, banks in my area apportion less than 3% of their loans to farming related activities.

Pragmatic, my costs per rai are, of course, much higher than a small-scale farmer. Why? The small-scale farmer provides all or most of the labour himself and does not account for the value of his own labour. When labour is accounted for, my costs per rai are cheaper since I can buy fertiliser and pesticides at cheaper bulk-purchase prices.


10% per month is ruinously expensive. Fears of consequences in lending at less than this are simply excuses with no basis in fact, unless you/she can cite occasions of violence, in your area, against those who have attempted to lend at less than 10% per month. I had the same rubbish said to me, but having a bit more courage, I set my rate at 3% per month. That rate is still expensive but is less than the opportunity cost to me, since I’d make more by farming rented land in addition to my own land. My farming rented land would have a greater negative impact on other villagers than my provision of loans to them (at cheaper rates than would be otherwise available). Farmers borrowing at 3%pm can service their loans and still prosper.

Which brings me to another point for the OP: Your 5 rai may be small, but what’s stopping you from renting 100 rai?

Half a dozen years ago, 3% per month was the going rate. I dabbled but the issue was the family members whose idea it was were too shy to make the collections. In and out very quickly for me, less than a year. Cut and run.
However there was one case that shows just how expensive this black market money is. The SIL lent a local some of my money. This person did not make one repayment but armed with chanote and signed police report I declared the game over, the principle was returned. No interest though. 10 years later the missing interest of a few thousand baht at settlement had grown to over 100K baht. Remember I am still holding the chanote and the paper for the BIB.
An intermediate asks me if he can buy the chanote back so the lender can secure a new loan. This guy is a friend of mine and a family member of both my wifes and the borrower. He wants to know how much, mind you he has no real money either.
What would you do?

Hi IA. I know that we have chatted about this case before but, whilst I think I remember the outcome, I cannot recall the details of the original loan. So just relying on maths from the info here, the outstanding interest would have been 4,620 which grew at 36% pa, assuming annual compounding, to 100,000 after 10 years. Had the original debt been exactly one year old, the loan would have been for 12,833. I’m also assuming that the outstanding sum was now exactly 100k after exactly 10 years.

It is very difficult for me to say what I would have done since it would depend on my relationship with all the actors. My reaction could range from not releasing the land-title until the 100k was paid, to releasing it for nothing. I would also consider the original loan-to-value of the security compared to the current value of the security, which will also have risen greatly over the ten years (perhaps 10-fold though not the 25-fold of the compounded interest. I might apply only simple interest and therefore ask for 46,200 in full settlement.

As outrageously expensive as 100,000 is compared to an original outstanding sum of 4,620 is, it is mind-blowing to realise that at 10%pm (rather than 3%pm), the outstanding sum now due after 10 years would be 42,761,476 (which assumes that the original outstanding interest would have been 15,400).

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Remember I am still holding the chanote and the paper for the BIB.

Holding the land papers doesn't mean anything. Years ago I held land papers based on securing a loan, well my wife did. The loan didn't get paid back. We went to a good well known lawyer who said the land papers were useless unless the title owner sign them over. If they refuse and the case goes to court then we would still lose due to the time delay and legal fees.
On top of that, even though we held the land papers there is nothing we could do to prevent the title holder to carry on farming the land. We were told to go to the land registration office and inform them in case the title holder tried to get another set of papers issued. A duplicate set of title papers cannot be issued without a police report and a policeman in attendance when applying.

Originally Posted by Khonwan

10% per month is ruinously expensive.

I agree, but I just stay out of it. It's her money. She takes the risks. I know it's illegal but even the local police borrow and pay the rate.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Remember I am still holding the chanote and the paper for the BIB.

Holding the land papers doesn't mean anything. Years ago I held land papers based on securing a loan, well my wife did. The loan didn't get paid back. We went to a good well known lawyer who said the land papers were useless unless the title owner sign them over. If they refuse and the case goes to court then we would still lose due to the time delay and legal fees.
On top of that, even though we held the land papers there is nothing we could do to prevent the title holder to carry on farming the land. We were told to go to the land registration office and inform them in case the title holder tried to get another set of papers issued. A duplicate set of title papers cannot be issued without a police report and a policeman in attendance when applying.

Lost me a bit there Prag, don't know much about the money lending game, but thought it was illegal to be an unlicensed money lender. How could you go to court over the loan then. Jim

Khonwan,
Close enough mate, but the interest was calculated monthly so the initial sum was less and the final more.
Pragmatic,
Agreed but the second signed document was the police report. It acknowledged the loan and terms, and yes it was witnessed by the local police.

Hi Pragmatic. The land papers are actionable and very easily so if chanote and tax pre-paid. In the event of going to court, all expenses including legal fees are paid by the debtor.

Jim, my wife and I try every possible alternative (no threats or use of violence) rather than go to court. Despite this, we are currently engaged in our first court case against a debtor. It’s a case of TIT: whilst unlicensed money lending is not legal, the loan agreement document forms are produced by the government for use by unlicensed money lenders and made available at many local shops… and the courts most certainly do enforce these contracts all the time. The courts will not honour interest exceeding 15%pa but will still accept such suits and then reduce the interest payable. Many lenders get around this limitation by having their borrowers sign incomplete forms with no provision of a copy so that the post-inserted (just prior to going to court) loan figure will show the rolled-up total due. (We had not done this.)

Originally Posted by Khonwan

Hi Pragmatic. The land papers are actionable and very easily so if chanote and tax pre-paid. In the event of going to court, all expenses including legal fees are paid by the debtor.

Jim, my wife and I try every possible alternative (no threats or use of violence) rather than go to court. Despite this, we are currently engaged in our first court case against a debtor. It’s a case of TIT: whilst unlicensed money lending is not legal, the loan agreement document forms are produced by the government for use by unlicensed money lenders and made available at many local shops… and the courts most certainly do enforce these contracts all the time. The courts will not honour interest exceeding 15%pa but will still accept such suits and then reduce the interest payable. Many lenders get around this limitation by having their borrowers sign incomplete forms with no provision of a copy so that the post-inserted (just prior to going to court) loan figure will show the rolled-up total due. (We had not done this.)

Lean something new everyday. Don't think I will go into money lending, haven't got any. Jim

Originally Posted by poorfalang

we got 1 rai of land from the woman and it is now worth 400.000, the shame is that the mother in law is the one that dealt with it and the 1 rai piece of land is on her name not the wifes

I struggle to understand why your wife didn't have the papers transfered into her name? Surely your wife must have known what was going on?

Originally Posted by poorfalang

we lent 100.000 to the neighbor, MIL idea.
were suppose to be paid 3000 per month after 2 years not even one baht, we were given,
after 3 years we got 1 rai of land from the woman and it is now worth 400.000, the shame is that the mother in law is the one that dealt with it and the 1 rai piece of land is on her name not the wifes, and she claims that she had so much hassle dealing with it that she should keep it, and the thing is that she is serious about it the bitch, so in the end we still lose that 100.000, and the rumor is that she already has a buyer that is offering 350.000 for it.
it is by the main road and the place has just become an amphur, hence the price .
damn In Laws, Hate all of them

This should show the newbies that the way Thai people think is different to us. When they ask each other for help,it is either given or not and that is the end of it. MIL had an idea and needed 100K, you helped, finish. I'll bet in her mind you were never part of the deal. Just a source of funds.
Every house in my mobhan keeps books recording what they give and what they get and where possible the scores are kept even.

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Quote:
Originally Posted by poorfalang
we lent 100.000 to the neighbor, MIL idea.
were suppose to be paid 3000 per month after 2 years not even one baht, we were given,
after 3 years we got 1 rai of land from the woman and it is now worth 400.000, the shame is that the mother in law is the one that dealt with it and the 1 rai piece of land is on her name not the wifes, and she claims that she had so much hassle dealing with it that she should keep it, and the thing is that she is serious about it the bitch, so in the end we still lose that 100.000, and the rumor is that she already has a buyer that is offering 350.000 for it.
it is by the main road and the place has just become an amphur, hence the price .
damn In Laws, Hate all of them
This should show the newbies that the way Thai people think is different to us. When they ask each other for help,it is either given or not and that is the end of it. MIL had an idea and needed 100K, you helped, finish. I'll bet in her mind you were never part of the deal. Just a source of funds.
Every house in my mobhan keeps books recording what they give and what they get and where possible the scores are kept even.

she is such a bitch and i do not hide that from no one even in my village everyone knows we don't get along, not bothered and others don';t seem to care much either.
for years while she lived with us she was always begging need this need that no money blah blah, in the end when shit hit the fan because of the other daughter that also lived with us, and was planning to make my house become her family house, they got pushed out all of them, no compassion from heartless crazy falang
guess what? for someone that had been crying for money for so many years all of a sudden found money for a new house,
yep strange and even my wife who could swear she had not even 100.000 in the bank was shocked.
that is not counting that one other rai as i talk above,
so she know has another house and a possible 350.000 in bank balance, not bad for a issan farmer that has only income from 15 rai of rice a year.
BITCH

Newbies don't fall for it, they will likely stitch you at some point.

best regards,
The heartless crazy falang (poorfalang)

PF, relax. I reckon most of us has been pushed into helping out often just to shut them up. I personally took an ice age to realise that a no remains a no. Dont get angry, get even.
My MIL can be a catty old tart and as demanding as anyone else. But the last time she tried it on I told here I didnt have any money and couldn't help her any more. She was shocked and fell silent for months. When it came time to start the rice crop she asked if I would pay for preparation and seed, still no money Mum I said with a smile! She found it, had it, whatever. I'M FREE again. Our relationship has improved, her expectation level has reduced.
While you stay angry at the injustice of it all, they win Face. Laugh to them and they lose and will stop.

Been there, done that…have had that done! I can identify with this discussion. After many years of learning, the secret to success is in the laying down of very clear parameters…then everyone gets on great.

Oh Im not angry, Oh no, Im not angry at all, i am just happy that i learn fast.

We're all human. As George Carlen said (premoderated) "I don't habour pet dislikes, I develop pathological **** hatreds!"

Farming in Thailand is a really heavy Job. And if you have enough money in your pocket on end of month....nobody know. In my mind, you just will have chance if you have a "new" and a "Special" idea. Feed Buffalos....plant Papaya will not be a good Business.

Thanks Toddaniels, I think? 555.
Your comment "..let 'em fend for themselves." is perhaps not my choice of words but the implication is correct. Take my own example. Before the wife and I moved here the family was growing rice on a total of about 40 rai, all channote land. For some years we had "helped" with fertiliser and harvest costs. Yet they were always "broke" and we never saw a baht or bag of rice. Since moving here we still have to put up the funds but now oversee the purchase and application of fertiliser. We do not fund the old daily "feast with your mates" during the harvest but pay a contractor to do it for us. But with no other real difference the harvest has doubled.
Obviously the details of what our money was spend on previously were changed. Fertiliser reduced, less rice produced and harvest cost increased. A good time was had by all and the rice bowl was full. Thai lifestyle.
Now its a business, I sell enough of the harvest immediately to recover all costs and profit. The rest we store for the family to "use". It is only possible to do if you are here and actively "stupervising".
If you are the absent funding source then do yourself a favour, hand over what you agree to and forget what it is used for. Once the cash changes hands, your part and participation in the deal is finished. You have helped.