Thread: What's rubber doing at the moment ?

Its low, but it should bounce back.

Rubber price is low and will stay that way until some good numbers start coming from China US and the EU.

More important to you is how good the trees are. Thais can live with poor under producing trees, as they tap themselves and all the money goes in their pocket. You can't, so the trees have to produce enough to pay tappers and still leave money as profit.
I have good high producing trees and can't get enough tappers, if you have poor trees you will not get anyone to work for you. Jim

Originally Posted by taxexile

Its low, but it should bounce back.

Boom boom!!

Thanks for the input James. Much appreciated. My wifes friends husband is from a rubber background and has looked at the land and says the trees are OK. 5 - 6 years old. he would be doing the work on a 60 40 split in our favour. The rubber wouldn't be bought as our main income so anything generated would be seen as a bonus but I would like eventually to see a return on the outlay for the initial land purchase.
I did find this site for current rubber prices which others might find useful

Untitled Document

And also this blog here

Rubber tree economics | BANDUNGLIFE

I can't honestly say what an unsmoked sheet is at the moment so can't say whether it is a good price but it sits at nearly 75 Baht a kilo
As said it is something for the wife really I just don't want her to throw her money away for nothing.
Myself I have found a farm where I can go and stay and learn how to grow mushrooms. Not on a commercial scale but just something to keep me busy and if it generates some beer tokens all the better
Cheers again James

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Thanks for the input James. Much appreciated. My wifes friends husband is from a rubber background and has looked at the land and says the trees are OK. 5 - 6 years old. he would be doing the work on a 60 40 split in our favour. The rubber wouldn't be bought as our main income so anything generated would be seen as a bonus but I would like eventually to see a return on the outlay for the initial land purchase.
I did find this site for current rubber prices which others might find useful

Untitled Document

And also this blog here

Rubber tree economics | BANDUNGLIFE

I can't honestly say what an unsmoked sheet is at the moment so can't say whether it is a good price but it sits at nearly 75 Baht a kilo
As said it is something for the wife really I just don't want her to throw her money away for nothing.
Myself I have found a farm where I can go and stay and learn how to grow mushrooms. Not on a commercial scale but just something to keep me busy and if it generates some beer tokens all the better
Cheers again James

If you put my name into a YouTube search or just Google me. I have lots of videos of rubber tapping and sheet making.

Word of warning, if you ask a Thai a question he will give you an answer, you could point out a teak tree plantation and ask is that a good rubber plantation and chances are he would say they are ok rubber trees. Jim

Cheers again James. as said much appreciated. i will have to have a look on Youtube as I have often wondered how they make the sheets .
Top man

We have 5 rai (has Nor Sor Sam ) of rubber and the wife has a half share of her Fathers.
We had planned to buy 10 to 15 rai of rubber but was unable to find any more with Chanote or Nor Sor Sam.

We bought ours last year and am sure they were about 6 years old,the seller was already cutting.
We have left the trees for almost a year and plan to start getting them tapped after the rainy season.

Personally I would not buy rubber land without a Chanote or Nor sor sam paper.

The price of rubber is low yet Thais are still clearing land were ever possible and planting trees, in the hope that some Falang will shell out average 1.5 million for about twenty odd rai with trees 1 or 2 years old.

Thais will fill you up with what ever crap to flog their land,but rubber trees is not rocket science.
If the tree are on poor land and not looked after you can expect little return,trees that have been fertilizer 3 to 4 times a year and tapped correctly and not damaged are what you want.

Take a trusted family friend who knows his stuff to give you his opinion.

The real winner with rubber will always be the Thais who got the land for nothing or cheap and of course the Tappers who get 40 percent cut.

Once you look at a few farms,see how they work you will soon realise there,s not much to learn.Tapping takes a bit of practice(hour or so on a non rubber tree ),but buy far the hardest bit about the game now is buying decent land to farm which your wife will legally own!

Good luck with it

BIL just planted about 10 rai of rubber trees. Seems to spend a great deal of time in care of these beginning shoots. Watering, clearing weeds, fertilizing and generally nurturing the young trees. So far he's only lost three plants, and has replaced same.

He has other land that is used for various crop rotations mainly rice and corn. I've seen loads of rubber tree land with pineapples planted in-between rows of trees. I presume alternate crop financial support is nice.

Cheers Guys. The land in question has a chanote title and has around 1100 trees, around 6-6 years old I think. not sure of the land size and there is a house, Thai style for the tapper to use. the tapper is an old friend of my wifes so trusted. It is her money so just trying to make sure she is just throwing it away. I get the impression it is more to give her friend some job security rather than anything else as is her personality.
Cheers again chaps

I personally would not care what title the land has, charnote is best, but possession land with no title is cheaper. Use it or lose it land, if you plant rubber you are using it and no one will take the land off your wife. The charnote will be issued when they get round to that area. No charnote land out here, but good rubber land, BIL just sold a small plantation, 560 trees 9 year old for 1.4 mil Baht. They were good trees, high latex producers which had been taken care of properly from day one. Thai buyers, no farangs out here but me.

Where most farangs fall down, is you can't be an absentee planter, if you are not there things will be done the Thai way, not the right way. Good example, about 30 km from here an Aussie planted 25 rai and left the in laws to take care of them. He sent the money for fertilizer etc each year. The trees are 15 years old now and have never seen a tappers knife, they are in such poor shape that no percentage tapper would be interested.

For those looking at buying mature trees you need to go watch them tap for a few days to see how much rubber the trees produce. It's a fine line between profit and loss, you still have to pay for the fertilizer, fuel , machines, if you do sheet and electricity the same for good trees as bad. Also take in to consideration the difference in price between sheet and cup.

One way to get an idea of how well the trees were taken care of, is to look at the branch height from the ground. Trees when growing should have had all the small branches removed to the 3 meter mark. Tall trees with high branches show at least the grower did more than just stick them in the ground and leave them to grow. Jim

All good advice James and gratefully accepted and taken on board. Planning on going to have a look next week sometime so may plan in a couple of days there to watch the tapping. cheers again TBF

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

All good advice James and gratefully accepted and taken on board. Planning on going to have a look next week sometime so may plan in a couple of days there to watch the tapping. cheers again TBF

If you have any questions feel free to PM or e mail me.
Rubber is my game and how we make our living and not a bad living.
Have to run as they are gassing the village hut but hut, Dengue fever is about. Jim

James, How long do rubber trees produce? I had the impression it was shorter than what you've quoted, 15 years?

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Cheers Guys. The land in question has a chanote title and has around 1100 trees, around 6-6 years old I think. not sure of the land size and there is a house, Thai style for the tapper to use. the tapper is an old friend of my wifes so trusted. It is her money so just trying to make sure she is just throwing it away. I get the impression it is more to give her friend some job security rather than anything else as is her personality.
Cheers again chaps

Chanote is the best start,1100 trees the land would be about 16 rai

How much are they asking,for the right price it sounds like a good buy.

In the area of Issan where our trees are about 80 percent of rubber farms are on land with Sor Bor Gor tittle.
You may or may not know that this land is basically family land which was allocated by government to poor farmers.They pay a small amount of tax per year and the name on the tittle can not be changed.
It can never be changed to Chanote or other tittle under current Thai law,also its illegal to sell.
The Thais do sell this land,as a falang I would never put money into this land hence the reason we only managed to find 5 rai.

Good rubber farms with a tittle are hard to find and will be more expensive.

As we know rubber prices do go up and down,when their rock bottom the game aint worth two bob.

Putting money into land on the basis of use it or lose it would never be for me!

Dave Hi. The land in question has chanote title and is in Surat Thani. Around 1100 mature trees with a house and they are asking 3.5 million Baht. Not sure how much land but going to go look next week. Rubber there at the moment is fetching just under 75 Baht a kilo for unsmoked sheets whatever that means
As said I get the impression that this is more to give her friend and her husband some job security rather than a money spinning venture though if there is money to be made I could be persuaded to put some time and energy into the project
Cheers again all

Originally Posted by ltnt

James, How long do rubber trees produce? I had the impression it was shorter than what you've quoted, 15 years?

Can't remember saying 15 years unless I was referring to one of the Malaysian super clones. Which are fast growing high latex yield and a very high lumber value. Your good old RIMM 600 trees if taken care of will produce for over 20 years. The first rubber tree planted in Thailand is still alive, think about 175 years, not tapped of course.

On the land subject, it's the Governments intent to issue charnote to all lands under an IMF project. The intention is to allow small farmers to be able to use the land as collateral with the banks so they can buy tractors etc. Reality is it will allow the rich to buy the land and make large more productive farms.
When we build our small rubber factory we had to buy land and you can't change the title on crown owned farm land, but with possession land, no title you can apply to have the usage changed. We through the National SME Department applied and got industrial zoning and the charnote followed a few years later. Jim

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Dave Hi. The land in question has chanote title and is in Surat Thani. Around 1100 mature trees with a house and they are asking 3.5 million Baht. Not sure how much land but going to go look next week. Rubber there at the moment is fetching just under 75 Baht a kilo for unsmoked sheets whatever that means
As said I get the impression that this is more to give her friend and her husband some job security rather than a money spinning venture though if there is money to be made I could be persuaded to put some time and energy into the project
Cheers again all

Our mob just add acid and sell the rubber,a couple of the uncles do the sheets which is better money and worth doing.

If that is as I think about 16 rai and you can get lecky and water on site depending on the surrounding area it sounds like a bargain.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Rubber price is low and will stay that way until some good numbers start coming from China US and the EU.

More important to you is how good the trees are. Thais can live with poor under producing trees, as they tap themselves and all the money goes in their pocket. You can't, so the trees have to produce enough to pay tappers and still leave money as profit.
I have good high producing trees and can't get enough tappers, if you have poor trees you will not get anyone to work for you. Jim

Decent and fair assessment, Jim.
Even in the best of times, sap producers don't receive a real value for their raw product. Less.....to considering selling land that might or might not future possibilities.

Originally Posted by taxexile

Its low, but it should bounce back.

People have been shot for less.

When everyone is jumping in, it's time to get out.

The boom is over. China is heading for a collapse in their housing market and as everyone knows the world over this affects consumption in areas where there is choice. New cars are a luxury.

Palm oil is the future but it takes effort, which probably explains why the Thai have never been too keen on it. Nevertheless, with the revolution in food processing abandoning trans fats the West is just realising the benefits of palm oil and its use, previously neglected, is increasing exponentially.

To date Malaysia and Indonesia supply over 90 % with Thailand accounting for only 1-2%.

If I were that interested that's what I'd be doing.

Hot climate, hundreds of sunshine hours and plenty of rain. Cultivation is straightforward but requires attention. Takes 4 years before the money starts rolling in.

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Rubber price is low and will stay that way until some good numbers start coming from China US and the EU.

More important to you is how good the trees are. Thais can live with poor under producing trees, as they tap themselves and all the money goes in their pocket. You can't, so the trees have to produce enough to pay tappers and still leave money as profit.
I have good high producing trees and can't get enough tappers, if you have poor trees you will not get anyone to work for you. Jim

Decent and fair assessment, Jim.
Even in the best of times, sap producers don't receive a real value for their raw product. Less.....to considering selling land that might or might not future possibilities.

We are all just slaves to the alleged free market, the big players set the rules and the small farmer just has to make the best of it they can. Rubber will go up again to it's highs, but the wages will rise. Would think Thailand has 10 to 15 years left before the cost of labor makes it non viable to do rubber without using foreign cheap labor, if there is any left. Malaysian is in that boat now, that's way most of their new clones are for lumber production, rubber is just an added extra.
SEA is booming in a world that's in stagnation, imagine what it will be like in the next global boom. If you own land your future will be safe. There is a big hungry monster to the north that needs fed. When the time of rubber is over the next need will be there and you can grow anything here if you have the land. Jim

Agree Dr Andy, China may slow but it will not collapse, if you start from a low base the only way is up. There maybe bubbles in places, but overall the direction is up, bigger and better. It will be along time before they a billion plus people stop growing. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Where most farangs fall down, is you can't be an absentee planter, if you are not there things will be done the Thai way, not the right way. Good example, about 30 km from here an Aussie planted 25 rai and left the in laws to take care of them. He sent the money for fertilizer etc each year. The trees are 15 years old now and have never seen a tappers knife, they are in such poor shape that no percentage tapper would be interested.

Jim,
Post #11 above is where I got the 15 years. Interesting that there is a rubber tree 125 years old left standing. Most would have thought it would have been cut down for cash by now.

Even though the rubber market price may be low at present, wouldn't you be better off and able to continue to collect sap and retain it until the market price advanced once again? No need to sell at lower price is there? If you're strapped for income then I suppose that would be a factor even if you take a loss?

Do you grow alternative crops to supplement your rubber income?