Thread: Rubber trees 101

Originally Posted by mykthemin

A guy I know who lives near me was nearly destitute, he reluctantly applied for his uk pension about a year ago and he now gets 114.00 poungs uk a week paid into his thai bank account, he left the uk at 26 and worked in egypt for years until he came her about 10 years ago. it is always worth asking, they can only say no.

interesting..not something that shows up on their website..only worked in UK about 4 years...maybe will write them a letter....can't hurt I guess...maybe writing it in Urdu would help?

Originally Posted by crepitas

Originally Posted by mykthemin

A guy I know who lives near me was nearly destitute, he reluctantly applied for his uk pension about a year ago and he now gets 114.00 poungs uk a week paid into his thai bank account, he left the uk at 26 and worked in egypt for years until he came her about 10 years ago. it is always worth asking, they can only say no.

interesting..not something that shows up on their website..only worked in UK about 4 years...maybe will write them a letter....can't hurt I guess...maybe writing it in Urdu would help?

Give it a go, they give money out like confetti, let us know how it goes. Good Luck.

Any one know of any one selling their sheet rubber making machines? I am looking for a set. or an all in one machine at the right money.

From the information I can glean, you have to have made at least 10 years subscriptions before you qualify for anything , that is as Crepitas correctly noted in his post # 1051 you can fill the claim form in Urdu then of course the sky is the limit

How bad can rubber prices get.

Rubber dealers plan an indefinite strike
Mar 11, 2015, 12.46AM IST TNN

KOTTAYAM: Rubber dealers have stopped buying RSS 4 grade rubber from farmers starting Tuesday. The Indian Rubber Dealers Federation (IRDF) has also announced an indefinite closure of their establishments from March 17.

Dealers had observed a token strike on Monday by closing down their shops. According to Jose Mambarambil, general secretray, IRDF, the dealers are forced to strike after the tyre manufacturers stopped buying rubber from the dealers. Due to this situation, the dealers are not in a position to buy rubber from the farmers, he said.

"If the tyre manufacturers are not ready to buy rubber immediately, we will go on an indefinite strike from March 17 onwards by closing down our shops. The federation blamed the trye manufacturers for not buying rubber leaving the dealers and farmers in the state in dire straits.

When the price of rubber slumped and appeared to go below Rs 100, the Kerala government in December, 2014 had got 12 leading tyre companies to agree to buy natural rubber from the local market at 25 pc extra price, till March 31. Based on the package, the rubber board announced the price of rubber on a daily basis. However, the tyre manufacturers stopped buying rubber from the dealers for over a month leaving the local market in the lurch.

Meanwhile, the steady fall in price of rubber in the international market has been a matter of great concern for the farmers and dealers here.

On Tuesday, the price in the Bangkok market was Rs 111.23 whereas the price declared by the Rubber Board was Rs 134.15.

Whats your expert opinion on this article Jim? ,Another "Rice scheme" or what? Govt turns rubber broker | Bangkok Post: business

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Whats your expert opinion on this article Jim? ,Another "Rice scheme" or what? Govt turns rubber broker | Bangkok Post: business

Governments talk, all smoke and mirrors, buyers set the price over all.
India is a bit different in that they are major tire producers and use more rubber then they produce, so in theory they can limit or tax imports, which they do.
Devil is in the detail though, import taxes are less then the local producers taxes, so imported rubber on paper is dearer, but in reality local taxes make locally produced rubber more expensive.
Like most governments they talk for the people, but act for big business.

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up - Thai PBS English News

Originally Posted by boloa

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up - Thai PBS English News

It's things like this that seem at odds to the free market, it's nothing to do with supply and demand.
If everyone parked up, the roads were empty, car manufacturers had stopped production, yes no need for the rubber.
That's not happened, so there must be other factors at play, market manipulation on a global scale.
Everyone must be clearing their stock reserves of rubber and products, to me that's strange, unless these multinational companies know something.
My bet, same as last year, 2009 GFC melt down, can't see any other reason.
No use Goodyear etc selling off their stocks, then not being able to supply demand, unless they think there will be little or no demand soon.

The projected rubber price is flat until 2020"s. Abundant stocks and supplies. To bad you can't grow apple i-phones?

Originally Posted by ltnt

The projected rubber price is flat until 2020"s. Abundant stocks and supplies. To bad you can't grow apple i-phones?

But there isn't abundant stocks anymore and supply is dropping fast.
No one is going to produce rubber for less then cost for long.
It's not just the farmers stopping tapping, rubber needs processed into usable rubber grades, the stuff out of the tree has a very short life, it needs processed before it can be shipped and used.
It's those large processing company buyers that buy at places like Buri ram, but if they don't buy they don't produce, they aren't going to continue producing at a loss.
End result, there will be no rubber for sale on the market, guess the tire/rubber company that can hold out the longest is the winner.
Same for the big Thai rubber houses, the ones that stays open win.

Perhaps looking at it like oil is easier, when the price of pumping is less then the sale price, stop pumping.
Next the rubber processors are like the oil refineries, when the price of buying and refining is less then the sale price, you stop refining.

The price of oil and rubber is not being set by actual production costs, but by market sentiment and manipulation, an engineered crash.
All commodities have crashed, oil, iron ore, copper etc but the crash in oil, rubber and a few others is not lead by a crash in demand.
Oil they turned up the pumps, increased supply, rubber they talked about a supply increase, but surplus is now an under-supply, they turned off the pumps [trees] and are closing the refineries [rubber processing factories]

During the great depression there was a yank, who looked at the situation, he said it can't last for ever, what will boom when it's over.
He took what money he had and invested in rubber in South America and factories [tire etc in the US] all at bankruptcy prices.
Depression ended, within a short time he was a billionaire, the time of cars had come.

Rubbers not dead, now would be the time to invest, the bigger the bust, the bigger the boom.
Just got to hold on, not be the one that dies by the side of the road, when is the question, not if a world recovery starts.
Think the world has not bottomed out yet, worse to come, but the end of world growth has not gone forever.

Big wedding party next door tonight, 100s of guests, free beer for me, so today's OK.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

But there isn't abundant stocks anymore and supply is dropping fast.

Tell that to the Thai Government...they can't get rid of their stocks. BTW, with oil at half price the residuals ie: synthetic rubber is in plenty of supply at a pretty cheap price. It doesn't take a market long to realize that consumers don't care how or what their tires are made from...next to go will be palm oil. Record lows for all things hydo-carbon.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by boloa

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up

Rubber auction at Buri Ram market called off as no sellers show up - Thai PBS English News

It's things like this that seem at odds to the free market, it's nothing to do with supply and demand.
If everyone parked up, the roads were empty, car manufacturers had stopped production, yes no need for the rubber.
That's not happened, so there must be other factors at play, market manipulation on a global scale.
Everyone must be clearing their stock reserves of rubber and products, to me that's strange, unless these multinational companies know something.
My bet, same as last year, 2009 GFC melt down, can't see any other reason.
No use Goodyear etc selling off their stocks, then not being able to supply demand, unless they think there will be little or no demand soon.

Did you miss this part, Jim?

It was reported that traders or rubber farmers were reluctant to participate in the auction because they believed that they would not get good prices. Earlier, they were offered prices 8-10 baht per kilogramme above market prices but, this time, the prices expected to be on par with market prices.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Did you miss this part, Jim?

Quote:
It was reported that traders or rubber farmers were reluctant to participate in the auction because they believed that they would not get good prices. Earlier, they were offered prices 8-10 baht per kilogramme above market prices but, this time, the prices expected to be on par with market prices.
__________________

Don't really understand what that's supposed to mean, if they farmers were reluctant to participate, so they didn't bring their rubber, ergo no rubber to sell.
The buyers were only ever going to pay the market price, not 8 to 10 baht above, the scheme was to cut out middlemen so farmers got the higher price the the middlemen got. Price dropped, buyers by from the cheapest supplier, but in this case no one wanted the rubber at any price, or so we are told.

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

Thai government has sold loads of rubber to China in sweetheart deals, guessing over a million M/Ts.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

You forget, Refiners simply open the valve to the synthetic stream a bit wider Jimmy.

Even give away's to China won't help the prices. In fact its very damaging...counter production. If Thailand wanted to do its rubber industry a favor, they'd burn their surplus stockpiles. Same with their rice. They are taking huge losses as it is, why not just suck it up and dump it. China would, make no mistake about them.

Originally Posted by ltnt

Originally Posted by jamescollister

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

You forget, Refiners simply open the valve to the synthetic stream a bit wider Jimmy.

Even give away's to China won't help the prices. In fact its very damaging...counter production. If Thailand wanted to do its rubber industry a favor, they'd burn their surplus stockpiles. Same with their rice. They are taking huge losses as it is, why not just suck it up and dump it. China would, make no mistake about them.

makes no difference how open the refinery valves are, drive on synthetic tires and you need a new set every few 1000 KM.

As to China and sweetheart deals with Thailand, it's all about a few making the big money, not the farmers or smaller players.
To be honest, I don't believe Thailand actually has big warehouses full of rubber, that rubber has already been sold to China in some back door deal.

Got to remember all this rubber has a limited shelf life, about a year, several years ago the 3 nation rubber group set up stockpiling to support prices.
All that rubber is well pasted it's use by date, it's either been all sold or they burnt it in secret, my bet sold cheap at taxpayers expense.
A scheme meant to support prices, probably had the opposite effect.

Originally Posted by ltnt

Originally Posted by jamescollister

itnt, no matter how cheap synthetic rubber is it can only replace about 15% of the rubber in tires.

You forget, Refiners simply open the valve to the synthetic stream a bit wider Jimmy.

Even give away's to China won't help the prices. In fact its very damaging...counter production. If Thailand wanted to do its rubber industry a favor, they'd burn their surplus stockpiles. Same with their rice. They are taking huge losses as it is, why not just suck it up and dump it. China would, make no mistake about them.

Gotta agree Itnt ,forget this stupid "face" thing , no sense in keep subsidizing failure ,just to get grubby votes from a populace who believes in Father Christmas , the billions lost through the so called "Rice Scam" proves this beyond any reasonable doubt ,that is for those who's cranium has not got coconut tendencies (only water inside )

I would suggest that those who believe that Subsidizing agriculture really works for the benefit of all ,read about the total disaster called the CAP Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) | European Crop Protection Association

Originally Posted by piwanoi

I would suggest that those who believe that Subsidizing agriculture really works for the benefit of all ,read about the total disaster called the CAP Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) | European Crop Protection Association

I'd be in great agreement with statement and link above.

Thanks, Pi...

In the USA farmer's are paid not to plant...reason: over production of specific crops and Land Bank. Saving the soil.

Thailand's farmers are simply burning itself up in more ways than subsidies.

In a quality tire, ie aircraft, sports and racing cars, motorcycles 250cc and over, there is no synthetic rubber used, and it cannot be used.

^However for general purpose not a problem... what sells mostly? G.P.

Big, down pour today, first heavy rain of the year, checked the biggest plantation, leaves all back and dark green, high water table here, mountains nearby.
Normally would wait for Song Kran, but need the income, one more rain and if my tappers are still my tappers will open the trees.
So much for taking care of the trees, no fertilizer and open up early, but beggars can't be choosers.
May just make it through before it's sticky rice and frogs, fingers crossed.