Thread: Reasons to use Organic Fertilizer

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Oh, come on guys, give me a break. Composting is a skill, not a pile of floor sweepings. You seriously want to talk about this, or are you going to buy any old rubbish?

Hello IsaanAussie,

Always read your posts with interest. Still doing the pig magic!

We just finished building the house and now it is time to start the organic farm. I have not enough posts to PM so I will post some info on this forum.

Cheers

R'tje

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Havent been around here for a while so time for an update. I am now producing organic fertiliser that includes lime, gypsum, dolomite, rock phosphate, potash and vermicompost all combined with the pig manure compost and fermented in probiotic brew with rice bran added. Molasses is used as the binder.
This is a general fertiliser which has over 80% organic matter included and a healthy microbe population to get things moving. Being organic and pelletised, it acts as a slow release and since the NPK is mineralised there is little loss of nutrients.

Hello IsaanAussie,

Can I have a look next time when I'm heading your way?
My worms make excellent vermicasts and I stabilize it by mixing with water and charcoal powder (which I make by pounding charcoal, (shitty job and cannot breath in the dust). This mix I let sit for 3 weeks with occasionally stirring and then let it dry.

I call this stabilized vermicompost.

The idea came to me while reading about Terra Preta.

Cheers

R'tje

Originally Posted by repesteeltje

Hello IsaanAussie,

Can I have a look next time when I'm heading your way?
My worms make excellent vermicasts and I stabilize it by mixing with water and charcoal powder (which I make by pounding charcoal, (shitty job and cannot breath in the dust). This mix I let sit for 3 weeks with occasionally stirring and then let it dry.

I call this stabilized vermicompost.

The idea came to me while reading about Terra Preta.

Cheers

R'tje

Rjte,

Dont expect too much to see, but as always visitors are welcome any time.
This is interesting. You will have a very heavy C:N ratio. Can I ask what your objective is with this blend?
It appears to me, are there are many microbes castings and now carbon but not much nitrogen to aid them in mineralisation. What nitrogen is in the castings would be mineralised but after the mix is dried what inert microbes are there would be pretty hungry when the mix is used and the moisture level rises to wake them up. Does that give you soil nitrogen depletion initially when the stabilised castings are used?
I do a similar thing but add pond algae as the nitrogen source. I also add my probiotic brew to speed things along.
Would welcome further discussions on this topic.

IA

IsaanAussie,
I find your post very interesting and educational, I am growing Jalapeno's, Serrano, Cayenne and Pasilla Bajo chiles and had been reading up on the fertilizer to use. What you place in your home made fertilizer is what I have been looking for.

If you know the Thai names for the ingredients you mentioned, could you include them in your post and will have my wife look for them.
Also do you purchase the pond algae or have your own personal source.

Thank you in advance of any information you can give me.

Cheers:

Sorry, again not visited for a while.
With your indulgence lets go back to the topic. Why use organic fertilizer? Well, I'll take it a step further, why use fertilizer at all? With healthy soil absolutely no reason...
None makes any sense if you look at individual cures, problems etc..
You have to look at the total picture. I grow CONVENTIONAL CHEMICALLY FARMED RICE! Why? It is a complete system. I would love to go organic but cannot while one step of the chemical solution remains.
Number one. If I had healthy paddies then the soil, a combination of Clay, Sand and Silt would have all the minerals my rice needs.
Number Two. If I didnt poison the weeds prior to planting I would stop devastating the indigenous micro-organisms populations that would mineralise those three soil components.
Number 3. My soil needs time to develop the next stage of biology that makes the nutrients plant available. (Check out Dr Ingram soilfoodweb).
EM is part of it. So is biochar and composts but there are no half way houses. My current challenge is to go from being a supplier of those component solutions to a farmer that is self-sufficient nutrient wise with a healthy 16 rai farm.

Originally Posted by Kikoman

IsaanAussie,
I find your post very interesting and educational, I am growing Jalapeno's, Serrano, Cayenne and Pasilla Bajo chiles and had been reading up on the fertilizer to use. What you place in your home made fertilizer is what I have been looking for.

If you know the Thai names for the ingredients you mentioned, could you include them in your post and will have my wife look for them.
Also do you purchase the pond algae or have your own personal source.

Thank you in advance of any information you can give me.

Cheers:

The dictionary will do better than me on names. The algae is easier. It grows all by itself, all I have to do is provide the environment. A green water pond and a few algae plants than watch, feed or not to feed, the only question. Answer, is it growing and green? If not what is wrong. Now it gets harder.
Normally my test is to harvest half the algae or as much as I have time for. Then tomorrow it should look like it was before,it regrows in 24hours. Do I harvest everyday? Give me a break!

I can remember few years ago, in South Australia I think it was, there was a research group who claimed to have stumbled upon a practice where toxic by-product chemicals of some industries were being shifted over and added into agricultural fertilizes. The suggestion was that because these by products were almost impossible to dispose of legally and were a considerable cost burden to store for the companies they were simply slipped out the back door and dumped into the production of the fertilizer.Conveniently there were regulations allowing for traces of these very contaminants in the chemical fertilizer too. And then as it was being produced in huge amounts and was being spread broadscale over the country side nobody seemed concerned at all until this was picked up on .Never heard the outcome of the accusations but does make you think of that possibility and about what you might be putting on your garden .

About time for an update. I am making my pelleted rice fertiliser for this years crop. I have made a slight change in that I will spray the crop, the ground, and the pellets with probiotic mixed with a ferment plant extract containing growth hormones, may even include a fungal extract for the root system and a couple of other biologicals that we have started making. All farm made.

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

About time for an update. I am making my pelleted rice fertiliser for this years crop. I have made a slight change in that I will spray the crop, the ground, and the pellets with probiotic mixed with a ferment plant extract containing growth hormones, may even include a fungal extract for the root system and a couple of other biologicals that we have started making. All farm made.

IA
Hi, have you heard of (hormone kai) Spelling? kai or gai as in egg.
we recently heard of riceberry, so we got a bit of it from some fella in the north of thailand, that is growing many rais of it only organically,
they gave us 3 recipe of organic stuff to spray the rice,

i have some recipe of (HOrmone kai ) kai or gai as in EGG
some other stuff with coconut juice
and some with EM.
i am very curious about it and i am doing one rai of it with nothing but only what i was advised be them, if you want it i can ask the missus to translate it for me and i will post it.

Originally Posted by poorfalang

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

About time for an update. I am making my pelleted rice fertiliser for this years crop. I have made a slight change in that I will spray the crop, the ground, and the pellets with probiotic mixed with a ferment plant extract containing growth hormones, may even include a fungal extract for the root system and a couple of other biologicals that we have started making. All farm made.

IA
Hi, have you heard of (hormone kai) Spelling? kai or gai as in egg.
we recently heard of riceberry, so we got a bit of it from some fella in the north of thailand, that is growing many rais of it only organically,
they gave us 3 recipe of organic stuff to spray the rice,

i have some recipe of (HOrmone kai ) kai or gai as in EGG
some other stuff with coconut juice
and some with EM.
i am very curious about it and i am doing one rai of it with nothing but only what i was advised be them, if you want it i can ask the missus to translate it for me and i will post it.

Please post it and thank your wife for the effort. The more I get into this stuff the more I am starting to understand the interface between all these organic potions and the OM that I am using.
Let me take a guess at the hormone egg. Probably the same as CalPhos which is produced by burning egg shells, fermenting in Vinegar. Produces calcium and Phosphate,

Jees all he wanted was a few tomatoes out of some pig shit

Think our fruit trees need phosphorous so googled it...seems fish is a good source.
Remember Newfoundland gardens covered in smelly rotting caplin ( they run in shore most years and are harvested with a rake while wading waist deep in freezing water full of fish..taste okay too).

So intend to stick a kilo or three of similar fish here in a bucket to rot down then use the juice...gag. The same small fish we buy for the dogs ... usually 25baht a kilo.

The wife pours fish cleaning water onto her herb pots...does frickin wonders!!

We keep a covered bucket for kitchen scraps on the veranda..when full I chuck it on the flower beds or around area at base of trees etc...not scientific but guess it must help.

Try sticking the fish through the blender first. Add raw sugar (1/3rd the weight of fish) or molasses (use 1/3 but measure in litres) and add 3 times the total volume in water. Finally a tablespoon of lacto bacillus or EM per litre. Stir the whole thing up and cap the plastic container. Best to put a vapour lock on it so no air can get in and excess gas can get out. It will take about 3 weeks. You will know it is finished when the stench is gone. Should smell like vinegar.

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Please post it and thank your wife for the effort. The more I get into this stuff the more I am starting to understand the interface between all these organic potions and the OM that I am using.
Let me take a guess at the hormone egg. Probably the same as CalPhos which is produced by burning egg shells, fermenting in Vinegar. Produces calcium and Phosphate,

something along those lines, we have a sheet with with the ingridients and the way to make, it came with the Riceberry seed we bought,
basically it says you rice looks like this and you spray this potion, or it have this problem and you spray that,

hang on i will get it done and post it, i also find it very interesting, i mean who would have guessed that one litre of coconut juice diluted in 20 litres of water and srayed on your rice once a month can wonders for your harvest

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Please post it and thank your wife for the effort. The more I get into this stuff the more I am starting to understand the interface between all these organic potions and the OM that I am using.
Let me take a guess at the hormone egg. Probably the same as CalPhos which is produced by burning egg shells, fermenting in Vinegar. Produces calcium and Phosphate,

1-10 eggs( eggs that could become chicken germinated inseminated sorry i don't know the word for it)
2-honey 750cc
3-come kind of sugar thais call it (kan ta sakon)spelling 200g
4-peng kao muk( some small white balls people use to make rice whiskey here in the sticks. 5-balls
5-yakult yogurt(only yakult ) x two small portion bottles
6-coconut juice (real from your farm) 10 litres
how to ?

crush, mince all of it into a fine quality( most is liquid anyway so not a problem)

rest for 2-3 hours before use
how to use?

1cc of this potion to 1 litre of water sprayed on the rice,

benefits?(healthy plants)= a healthy harvest,( i hope)

i have more potions using banana tree(not any banana tree) but it is not translated yet so bear with me.

i have not yet made this but i will make together with another 4 potions and test on one rai of riceberry, no fertilizer at all, only the potions which are sprayed.

Was wondering with the reference to pond algae, would it not be possible to go to the local reservoir and harvest all the algae you could possibly need? I know the one by the house is getting choked full of algae. There is no sluice way so it is slowly filling up with decaying plant matter, silt, etc. Perhaps if it were possible to harvest from the reservoir, deliver to the rice fields below, it would be beneficial to the entire village downstream where ever rice is grown. Everyone is fertilizing since in that area it has been in rice production for hundreds of years.

Originally Posted by poorfalang

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

Please post it and thank your wife for the effort. The more I get into this stuff the more I am starting to understand the interface between all these organic potions and the OM that I am using.
Let me take a guess at the hormone egg. Probably the same as CalPhos which is produced by burning egg shells, fermenting in Vinegar. Produces calcium and Phosphate,

1-10 eggs( eggs that could become chicken germinated inseminated sorry i don't know the word for it)
2-honey 750cc
3-come kind of sugar thais call it (kan ta sakon)spelling 200g
4-peng kao muk( some small white balls people use to make rice whiskey here in the sticks. 5-balls
5-yakult yogurt(only yakult ) x two small portion bottles
6-coconut juice (real from your farm) 10 litres
how to ?

crush, mince all of it into a fine quality( most is liquid anyway so not a problem)

rest for 2-3 hours before use
how to use?

1cc of this potion to 1 litre of water sprayed on the rice,

benefits?(healthy plants)= a healthy harvest,( i hope)

i have more potions using banana tree(not any banana tree) but it is not translated yet so bear with me.

i have not yet made this but i will make together with another 4 potions and test on one rai of riceberry, no fertilizer at all, only the potions which are sprayed.

This definitely needs following. I got heaps of bananas. Eggs and coconut, wow. That is going to have plenty of protein and amino acids (nitrogen) and a healthy Lacto Bacillus population. At 1 in 1000 it will be pretty economical too. Use within what time frame and how long will it stay viable?

Originally Posted by sranchito

Was wondering with the reference to pond algae, would it not be possible to go to the local reservoir and harvest all the algae you could possibly need? I know the one by the house is getting choked full of algae. There is no sluice way so it is slowly filling up with decaying plant matter, silt, etc. Perhaps if it were possible to harvest from the reservoir, deliver to the rice fields below, it would be beneficial to the entire village downstream where ever rice is grown. Everyone is fertilizing since in that area it has been in rice production for hundreds of years.

Absolutely go get it.

Originally Posted by IsaanAussie

This definitely needs following. I got heaps of bananas. Eggs and coconut, wow. That is going to have plenty of protein and amino acids (nitrogen) and a healthy Lacto Bacillus population. At 1 in 1000 it will be pretty economical too. Use within what time frame and how long will it stay viable?

the wife says it can be kept in a well sealed bottle, but no actual answer in how long will it stay,
considering the egg and the temperature in Thailand, maybe be wise to keep it refrigerated and test it, our rice berry is almost ready to be transplanted,
the wife said the guys use this particular potion 4-5 times during the whole process of transplanting to harvest time.
then there is the banana potion,
coming up next,

Just wanted to share with you fellas another recipe of ours,

snails are rich in iron, magnesium, calcium, phosphorus, potassium and sodium.

get a loads of it in a tank, 200l tank is good,

crush them, i mean to a very fine matter, about 10 kilos of it, don't loose any of the thick juice its all good
add water just to submerse them,
add EM about 100cc add molasses about 250cc let it alone for a week,

filter all the juice and mix 500ml to 20l of water and spray your rice,

the left over from the filtering you can throw in the veg pot,

Poorfalang -> your avatar makes it very difficult for me to read the text.
Now my poor head is stuck in the gutter.

Originally Posted by mike123ca

Poorfalang -> your avatar makes it very difficult for me to read the text.
Now my poor head is stuck in the gutter.

try to get your head out of the gutter, rinse your eyes with fresh water, get a decent set of glasses and try again,

Don't know about the gutters but the words "Dining at the Y" seem appropriate!
Anyway, if your are fermenting the snails do not forget the shells, you can make up CalPhos from them. Got a recipe somewhere ....

By the way, is it a home dictated E-Book, this book about cats, that one can purchase?

^
oh yea sure the shells are in it,
the recipe is more or less what is above, sure the ingredients can be adjusted by someone with more knowledge(yourself )

i would like to go back to the young coconut juice 1L:20L water and sprayed on the rice 2 days after transplanting,

day1 looked at my neighbor transplanting his rice
day2 went in to the paddy field and had a really good look at it
day3 transplanted my riceberry
day4 indulge in beer consumption
day5 spray my rice berry with the coconut juice thing
day6 do nothing
day7 do nothing
day8 more nothing
day9 argumentish with the wife about the stupid coconut juice thing, i claimed it looks normal and the same as the neighbor.
she goes in there and digs out some of our rice and some from the neighbor to compare,
well, the difference was clear to the eye, our riceberry had a much bigger root system, even the tiny little rice stem, with massive root systems,

could it be just that, i mean the coconut?

same soil type, same weather,

i suppose if the rice has a good start in life it has a better chance of a higher harvest?
found it interesting but i cannot give no scientific explanation.

IA, what do you think?