Emergency - Please Help

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I've been here in San Jose, San Fernando, Pampanga, Luzon, Phillipines for two weeks now staying with Sandra's family. Upon my arrival I had wanted to move into a hotel but she couldn't wait to bring me home to meet her dad, brother and two sisters.

After an uncomfortable and very uncertain start, things became fine - I became used to staying here, the family have made me very welcome and fed me and it has not been of great cost to me - I've paid electric/internet bills and a couple of shopping bills which come to a combined cost of about eighty pounds - my point is, with the exception of the father and the fact they live in what I can best describe as a shanty town in a place that is not safe for me to go anywhere alone, they are not a materialistic family and it's been cheaper than staying in a motel.

Things went tits up yesterday when her conservative and Christian mother (who I met twice) had been on the phone from Hong Kong and started applying pressure for us to get married. She had obviously been informed that we had been staying under the same roof (I've been sharing her small room and bed in the only AC room) and it ended in an ultimatum - "If you are serious about my daughter, marry her now or seperate".

We had been due to move into an apartment end of this month and I have to give the landlord an answer today. her sisters and other members of her family had accepted upon viewing the apartment that I would need us to live together for AT LEAST a year before I could marry and they accepted that before the mother started getting involved from HK.

Sandra herself is hating all this and thinks she has to choose between me and her family. My own mother - who is worried sick - says I should get the apartment for a month and see how things go and that if Sandra can't stick up to her mother then I should leave as that is a test.

No idea how to get to Manila airport safely - I am due to come to Thailand for June but that may have to be sooner, and I guess i'll have to get a return from here and not use the return.

Things were going fine, not without their ups and downs but better than we'd ever been in Hong Kong (incedentally, the family have no idea what her job was in Hong Kong - obviously I can't tell them).

Finally, I am serious about Sandra, but not enough to be forced into something I have no idea about. She, despite not being the emotional type, has been in tears over this. She feels under a lot of pressure not to let her family down like her brother did by having a child out of wedlock at the age of 22. She is worried if I leave her she will look stupid and end up alone forever. I am the first foreign guy she has bought home and it is obviously a big deal to them. I had just wanted to get a cheap motel and see how things went - step by step as my friend in Samui Noy has always said.

Finally, since I arrived the family's main concern has seemed to be genuine as in that the concern has been that I am serious about their daughter/sister. The father (who's English is limited) likes me (of course he does) and has turned a blind eye to me staying in the same room - he must have known. Her brother is a diamond, he's just an unemployed kid who got a girl up the duff and he's a pleasure to talk to. He helps himself to my cigerettes but has also got the beers in - he doesn't take me for granted and last night got drunk and told me if I left he would miss me and not forget me and that he won't resent me if I don't love his sister just don't hurt her.

Sandra's last words were laced with despair, she now wants me to marry her but only because she can't see any other way of keeping her family and me. I have told her that I need to find out EVERYTHING before I would do such a thing, what EXACTLY it would involve and that if I did I would do it with the upmost resent, I wouldn't want anyone there at the 'civil wedding' whatever the fuck that is and that I would never ever speak to her mother again.

I understand that a Fillipina can't get a divorce - apparently she has everything to lose, not me - which seems odd that the pressure should be on to marry a guy with limited funds and currently no job or visa exceeding June 3rd (though I guess marraige would help that - not that I could live here long term).

Where can I find out exactly what I would be getting into IF I was crazy enough to do this just for her?

What angers me most is there seems to be no 'meeting me half way' in terms of my culture and pre marrital requirements, the mother is more concerned what the neighbours think (that are miles away from her) than what is best for her daughters long term relationship.

If she was pregnant I would take that responsibility on the chin and marry her immidiately, however she is not - and much as some of you will waste time and achieve very little by saying 'I made my bed, I must lie in it' or 'I told you so' - this may be an entertaining drama for some of you but I am very frightened and running out of time to decide what to do.

Is a marraige on paper really such a big deal if I am serious about her and what would I stand to lose if it went tits up? The mother says I am 'of age' and that marraige would be a good thing. Sandra herself has said she would give it her best shot. They don't know about my money in the UK and I do not have access to it anyway.

The culture is very fucked up but the family are not bad people, they believe in what they are saying, but the bottom line is I am not ready to make that kind of commitment after what has really only been a serious relationship for the past 3 weeks despite having known Sandra since December.

Constructive comments welcome.

[Spin]

Marry in haste, repent at lesiure.

That was something my mother told me years ago and seems to be a useful guide.

I would not be pressured into anything like this.

Maybe you should move out to the motel and let Sandra stay at her folks place until the way ahead is clearer?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Marry in haste, repent at lesiure.

That was something my mother told me years ago and seems to be a useful guide.

I would not be pressured into anything like this.

Maybe you should move out to the motel and let Sandra stay at her folks place until the way ahead is clearer?

I don't even know if I could last another month now - her mother has ruined everything. I am totally dependant on her family, even to eat. It's that void of westerners here.

If I can do it safely then I think I should just get out and try to keep in touch with Sandra (if she would even want to after I left) - if thay want to play the 'all or nothing' game then perhaps I should do, maybe her daughters tears will make her realize how unreasonable she is being.

Sandra will no doubt return to Hong Kong embarrassed and broken hearted to resume her work.

Still interested to know what 'married' would actually intail, maybe I should contact the embassy.

[Spin]

Never been to P'pines, is it really as unsafe as you say? i dunno whether i could marry a girl from a country where i or my future kids would be unsafe on a day to day level

Being dependant on her family seems to be the last thing you need?

I would be looking to back off a little and get somewhere you can think about this situation.

Still interested to know what 'married' would actually intail

Typically terminal misery with no sex or sport channels on the telly?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

is it really as unsafe as you say? i dunno whether i could marry a girl from a country where i or my future kids would be unsafe on a day to day level

It is as safe as Thailand would be if there were no foreigners there.

Once I have investigated the full implications and every consequential scenario of getting married I need to look at this from a completely logigal point of view.

Sandra has said this morning that it is the only way we can live together, it's the way her family is and the way her culture is - which isn't a lie - I had heard this before I ever came here.

She said if I want to go I can, she will just face her father, the humiliation and disgrace and return to Hong Kong where she will work and remain single forever (which she told me she would do when we met as she didn't want to get hurt again). She will have to face all those friends who 'told her so' it would never work.

Nobody can really accuse her of emotional blackmail here, she's not said she'd kill herself of I left her like many Asian girls do. This was after all where she was before we met and is her only option on a tourist visa other than stay here bored to death.

If I 'flee' to Thailand or England, I will most likely continue drinking and sleeping around, looking for that beautiful soulmate that in reality we never meet unless we are very very lucky.

She has said that if we marry I will be free to leave if I am not happy, so why get married? Is it so she can get employment outside the Phillipines or in a western country? If it is then I don't really have a big problem with that, however she doesn't need to, she can get work overseas with her nursing degree.

It seems to me that the stigma of living in sin is a big deal indeed. I have told her that I have dwindling funds and I am unlikely to recieve any help from my family if they think I was forced into marraige - she knows this.

So her motivation for getting married isn't financial, if it is she's doing a very good job of hiding it but I don't think she's smart enough for that and I'm not loveblind, plenty of guys who would be for a girl of her body and looks.

So, I will at least look into it and consider it.

She has also stated that if I married her I would try harder to make it work, as would she. If it didn't work out she would be hurt but at least have some dignity.

So only one question remains.

How come her brother Oscar hasn't been forced to marry the girl he's got a kid with - they are all living together in the room downstairs next to her fathers room.

[obsidian]

get the fuck out get the fuck out get the fuck out

[britmaveric]

Scampy - leave and leave now. If you had a plan prior - ie wait a year then stick to it mate. Blackmail is no way to start a marriage.

[slimboyfat]

i dont know why you are asking for advice here of all places.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

^ Just collecting opinion, what I really need is a website detailing the terms and conditions of a western/ffilipina marraige - also helpful would be an expat website to Phillipines - can't find one, or better still, just some horror stories but also positive ones so I can make my own assesment.

UPDATE

Her mother has since accused me of not being serious and just using her daughter and that I am not worthy! We now may have no choice but to seperate.

My best friend's youngest son married a girl from Soi Cowboy and they have been happy for 5 years still going strong because the guy, like him mum, both looked at the situation with rational logic.

Sandra's mum is not being rational, but then again nobody who is religious is rational, and they don't know the meaning of the word logical.

But if after doing my homework I have nothing to lose except my aimless, lonely, confused life as a batchelor - then maybe I should?

As westerners we are almost guilty that we have money and we are obsessed by this paranoia that there is an alterior motive - there isn't always. Sometimes it's just religion that fucks it up like it does everything else.

I will give it a coupld of days before making any promises, but there will be no wedding until I have been to Thailand and come back - i.e. July at the very earliest.

[Thetyim]

Today
Suitcase
Ticket
Leave

[Wallace]

Trust your instincts and your gut feelings. If you're not comfortable with the situation (and you clearly aren't), then you'll have to leave, and do it soon. Your guilty conscience has no place here, and is just messing with your head. Forget all that about westerners being seen to have money, we're not in it for that, and once you start on that road, it's really hard to get off.

I don't know you personally, but to me you've expressed how you feel about all this pretty clearly. It will no doubt hurt Sandra, and that's going to be hard for you, but in the end it's also your life.

[slimboyfat]

offer sandra an ultimatum.

lose the mobile phone or i wont marry you.

[Butterfly]

Obviously the mother in HK is the mamasan and want her to be back on the job. It has nothing with religion. She just doesn't like you as a candidate.

Tell your wife to choose: either she is a grown up and say fuck you to her mother, or you walk

It's that simple. Marrying at this stage will be completely foolish and your girl knows it and would lose respect if you did.

[El Gibbon]

Google Living in the Philippines

An expat site where you'll find some answers

E. G.

[RandomChances]

I'd get the fuck out of there. Does her mother actualy know what she was doing for a living in HK ? Seems a bit late to be doing the " you've had sex with my daughter, now you have to mary her" bit !!

[sabang]

If you want to give your GF some time frame as to how long you want to live together before you are willing to make a commitment, fine. But for now, you've just got to tell your girl to tell her Mum to extract her big nose. If she is not willing too, then as far as I'm concerned she is part of the plot as well.
In short, you give her an ultimatum.

[obsidian]

stop being so god-damn understanding and boogie stop being so god-damn understanding and boogie stop being so god-damn understanding and boogie

[keda]

You already know what you want to do if not what you're going to do - so do it!

That said, the consensus seems to be weighted towards common sense in that marriage, just like starting a family, is something you plan with your other half and without prodding from outsiders.

Also seems Sandra needs to learn a bit about the farang way, that when you marry you must be prepared to divorce the family that brought you up in favour of the one that'll do the same for your own children.

[watterinja]

Constructive comments welcome.

You are easily manipulated, Scamp.

Get out of the situation & move closer to where you can manage your own life. Do it now!!! Think of the consequences later.

[obsidian]

^ really. you are swimming with sharks and you have a nose bleed. get out of the game. you cannot win. even to engage in debate is to lose.

get with whitey at ajarn/whatever and he can guide you through this mess.

[Marmite the Dog]

Also seems Sandra needs to learn a bit about the farang way, that when you marry you must be prepared to divorce the family that brought you up in favour of the one that'll do the same for your own children.

If only life were that easy....

Anyway, you know the answer, Scampy; your terms or no terms.

[barbaro]

That said, the consensus seems to be weighted towards common sense in that marriage, just like starting a family, is something you plan with your other half and without prodding from outsiders.

Absolutely.

Meddling families cause so many problems in Asia.

Good luck on whatever you decide, GS.

[mrsquirrel]

Serves you right for treating her like shite on here.

Som nom na as the Thais would say.

You made your own bed son. Get into it and enjoy it.

[obsidian]

^

[keda]

I had a similar type of experience when I was living there, was friendly with a CID sergeant, spent a lot of time playing chess at his place as he gradually introduced the idea of getting to know his daughter Helen, young, pretty indeed and at university. All was going well though I hadn't actually poked her, till one day I was with him on the way to the nick when an empty taxi paused by us in traffic, he was in civvies and asked the driver to take us, driver said no he was on a job and started driving off, whereupon he yelled something, drew his gun, rushed into the middle of the road causing traffic to swerve, and stood astride aiming the gun through the cab's rear window. Of course the driver came to an intsant stop, he calmly walked over and smacked him a couple of times before opening the door for me. When we reached our destination I dipped my hand in pocket to pay but he gestured to me to leave as he said something which had the sad fok lurch into oncoming traffic in his relief to get away unscathed. Not my cuppa, as no relationship is perfect I began imagining the consequences of my first tiff with his daughter, and as my visa had just a few weeks to go before before the annual visa run requirement, I took that as an opportunity to get the hell out.

Prior to that incident, there was also the disconcerting issue of the occasional head being found in a field, which he said once belonged to drug dealers and other crims, implying their despatch was done by the police as a warning to others.

They're like Thais, mate, but less cultured.