Thread: Terminating employment in Thailand

^ Thanks Mtd... That's on tomorrow's agenda - we really have no more options, unfortunately.

My personal problem is to balance my inner feelings of wanting to cut the guy's throat, with that of justice & a legal process. I get so cut up when people screw me after a long time of honest, genuine input & loyalty. I take it personally & genuinely find it difficult to understand how people can be so ruthless.

You know, I've had to retrench senior directors in the past. In the end, I went to bat on their behalf & secure them the best, fair deal that balanced the individuals' rights & company interests. I have, hand on heart, never, ever, screwed someone in the way these goons are trying on me. I simply could not live with myself if I did that.

Anyway, that's my inner man speaking.

Over to the attorneys tomorrow.

^ Seems like you should be in research, but not in business, as it's all about slitting each other throats.

As getting a B visa with an overseas company, that's not fraud or illegal, that's how it is issued or supposed to work. The idea of the B visa is to "research" the country, not work here, as these are totally different issues. You can stay here on a B visa, and work overseas, and it's legal. Again you seem very confused and mixing different problems into different places.

As for setting up a Thai company, do you have any idea of the commitment this will require from you ? do you plan to actually manage the company or just be a shareholder ? do you understand the requirements to manage a company, what it means ? Thailand is the last place to setup a "serious" company for a farang, unless you already have a successful business, having a start-up here seems highly ambitious or very foolish, whatever suits you.

BF, practically, I started my first consulting operation at age 29. I have had numerous ventures over the years - some very successful, some not so good, been embezzled twice - school-fees.

I can fight with the best of them, but, I hate having to do it. In fact, you honestly would not want to come up against me on the wrong end, & on the wrong day - I work hard at staying as mellow as possible for a passionate type 'A' personality.

The Thai venture will only remain as a very bare minimal operation - for presence purposes, unless opportunities present themselves.

My aim will be towards Singapore - to be honest - more so than Malaysia. I have already initiated relationships at academic level & plan to explore the business end of Singapore next year.

Frankly, I suspect that I'll be mutually-introduced into a jv by someone well versed in the game. He head-hunted me last year & has kept me busy in research. He was the Techno-guru one of the largest companies in the A__ world. Time & technology ramp-ups are pressing things that way - it seems.

The Thai thing is a temporary convenience & no more.

Originally Posted by watterinja

The Thai venture will only remain as a very bare minimal operation - for presence purposes, unless opportunities present themselves.

I don't understand that commitment for Thailand, even having an "official" presence is going to expose you to possible problems. Seems like a waste of time or maybe there is another reason you are not sharing.

Originally Posted by watterinja

The Thai thing is a temporary convenience & no more.

Seems a waste of time for just a temporary thing and despite all this you seem to be highly committed to Thailand. Setting up a company in Singapore is also not easy, and require a lot of comitments in terms of taxes and reporting. Not a bad thing but it's something also you need to consider. Being researcher or consultant is often incompatible with being a business man or a managing director of a company, you really find yourself doing two lines of business.

Short feedback:

Long story short - went to MOL. Went through the details with their team. Spent a long time with some excellent, sharp folks. A plan of action is in place & we will play out the company at its own game. I will attend as per previous agreements as though nothing has happened. It is likely that a termination notice will be served with a short time - if not then we'll play on.

In the meantime, they will be investigating the full background documentation looking for fraudulent submissions.

They guys & gals ARE good - I'll broaden my shoulders & help them play the game.

This is being seen as an international test case. I'm most impressed. They can only do their best.

There appears that the company in question will potentially have some other difficulties coming along their path as this progresses.

Originally Posted by watterinja

This is being seen as an international test case.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they've done hundreds of cases similar to yours for foreign employees. That's why they're good at it.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they've done hundreds of cases similar to yours for foreign employees. That's why they're good at it.

agree, and if watterinja win because of the personal favor from his "special" friend, then it hardly becomes an international test case, as it will become an "exception"

either way the answer is already there, they "won" regardless, and the international test case has failed already because of that "exception" rule

I disagree - the case can only be won, or lost based on the law - well, if the court were totally unbiased.

I'm pretty grateful, I have to say - anyway.

I think that whammy will really hit home after all the dust has settled in that, it seems, that the company concerned may have only just realised that the person they insulted is the man behind export promotion of their market sector - plus others. It was all a bit silly of the company MD trying to score points on how many companies he manages - they're all his dad's anyway. When his brothers' businesses begin running into headwind - they're not going to like the brother too much. Silly bunch.

Originally Posted by watterinja

I disagree - the case can only be won, or lost based on the law - well, if the court were totally unbiased.

yeah, but if bringing it to the attention of the court means you need to pull some strings, then you are already admitting defeat as an international test case.

I did not pull any strings at all.

The name of the man who'd tried every sane approach to resolving this thing in a decent way - oddly-enough, came up purely per chance (at around the 99.5% point in the 3 hour session), since I had his card in the list of recent communications. It happened to strike a note I only discovered later.

^ anyway, keep up posted of the outcome, should be an interesting one

^ Thanks BF.

I think we'll always learn with each new case that comes up & how it gets resolved. For me, I'm more interested in getting this thing along its own path so I can get on with my own life.

I'm only going further down the track as they felt it was worth their input & they wanted to press through. I was concerned that I may be wasting their time & really had to debate with my inner feelings on whether to press through, or to just walk away. In the end, I promised to press through, if they felt it was a worthwhile cause all round.

I get the feeling that the trick the employer tried - even on an experienced engineer - means that they must be also doing it right down the line in the group. This must have impacted hundreds of Thai lives in the past & in that sense, it is worthwhile fighting such a case & bringing the directors to book.

Anyway, yep - we'll all learn - with many "I told you so's", I'm sure.

good luck diaw.

^ Thanks very much, KW. I needed that... feeling more than a little battered emotionally after all this.

A brief update:

The formal legal process was kicked off today with a formal complaint being lodged against my previous employer for 'Dismissal without reason', & various other supporting strategies.

This process will probably take time to wind its way through the system & promises to be a learning exercise for all parties involved. The intention is to leverage each & every facet of the process to see where it ends up.

The advise & support from the Thai MOL has been absolutely amazing. The lead adviser is truly a man of intellect & stature. His support team are very, very smart & incredibly helpful.

Meeting people like this truly shows a side to Thailand that many of us probably don't often get to see. I count it a privilege - although these are obviously circles 'William' has moved in, many a time (kudos).

Originally Posted by watterinja

it will be the first-&-last Thai company I ever work for.

Not the first nor the last to make that comment

^ Unfortunately - too true...

The ghastly ones seem to be these Chinese-Thai groups. I have never come across someone who can lie like this ex-company MD. I'll bet his lies will be the things that trip him up. In fact, the current strategy has already honed in & around a few of them.

For me, it was a sad thing to think that I ever trusted him & his family - who, incidentally, I'd known for many years through previous business where I consulted to one of his international material suppliers, when I lived abroad. The fact that these people - at executive level - have no concept of fundamental honesty & that their 'word' should be binding - has amazed me.

The tricks he played, in the end, we so sloppy, that it was insulting, to say the least. The spin-off effect to his customers & others in the same industry will not help his cause - to be sure. Silly people & all over a relatively small amount of due compensation.

Originally Posted by watterinja

The advise & support from the Thai MOL has been absolutely amazing. The lead adviser is truly a man of intellect & stature. His support team are very, very smart & incredibly helpful. Meeting people like this truly shows a side to Thailand that many of us probably don't often get to see. I count it a privilege - although these are obviously circles 'William' has moved in, many a time (kudos).

Definitely not often words used about a Thai ministry. Glad to hear about it and good luck! Please let us know how it goes.

Thanks CSF,

The lead attorney (adviser) is a very astute guy & knows the Thai law every which way. The lady managing the complaint is also very good. Her approach was cunning & well designed.

The matter will now take time to wind its way through the system & we'll see where it all goes. They've done their best & much will be up to the courts, I'd guess.

Personally, I don't have much faith in the Thai court system & their impartiality, but, I honoured the agreement I made with the Legal team & to follow their advice to a logical conclusion. Only time will tell where this all goes - I did not make these sentiments known.

I have thoughts that when the dust has settled & the mater has resolved itself, that I'll have all relevant documents translated & will post them on the internet for all to peruse. I'd obviously do this after I've left Thailand.

Originally Posted by watterinja

I'd obviously do this after I've left Thailand.

yep...sound strategy watters: we don't want to see you reported as another "farang" suicide...

^ Very true... odd stuff happens in LOS - especially where money & 'face' are concerned.

The long & the short of it is that I was royally shafted. The so-called BKK government hot-shot was all air.

It seems like the area of jurisdiction fell just outside BKK & so had to be handed over to their folks. A little palm oil seemed to do the trick & the matter was squashed. I never did get the final verdict - the Thai labour fellow in Samutprakarn couldn't speak a word of English.

Welcome to Thailand.

Originally Posted by watterinja

The so-called BKK government hot-shot was all air.

well, what else did you expect ? all those Thai officials are full of hot air. If they weren't, they would be working a real job, not pretending like they do.

Are you still going to Singapore ?