Thread: Getting Divorced

Originally Posted by Panda

On the other hand the (ex) wife would be set for life with a nice house and a comfortable lifestyle in Thailand. And of course, as an Australian citizen the (ex) wife would also be entitled to pro rata Aussie Aged Pension of around AUD $400 a fortnight when she turns 65.

Not if she lives in Thailand. If she stops being a resident, or leaves for more than 13 weeks her pension would be stopped.

Aged pension continues while overseas unlike disability pension which cuts off if you live elsewhere for more than 13 weeks p/a.

Originally Posted by Panda

What sort of property settlement is normal in Thailand in the case of divorce?

Good tactic, but you would have to be resident/domicile in Thailand. If not, a divorce in Aus is much more appealing for her if she thinks she won’t get what she believes she’s entitled to.

And I was basically broke when we married, so everything I have I have accumulated within the marriage.

This makes it easier as you can both say and accept that you have both contributed equally to the acquisition of assets. However, from reading further into your post, I don’t believe this is the true position.

Plus, if my elderly Mum was to pass away while I am married I would pick up a tidy sum in inheritance.

Keep any inheritance monies separate and to yourself. If you place it in a joint account or use part of it to cover expenses for you both, it will be considered a joint asset. Kept separate, you can argue a lot of things (for brevity) as to why it doesn’t form part of the matrimonial assets. Don’t even acknowledge how much you received, or just deny you received anything. Arrange any correspondence on the matter to be collected or get a PO Box etc.

My wife works part time, but saves nothing. What she doesn't spend, she sends home to her reasonably well off daughters. I work a lot of overtime and pay all the bills.

Seems to be the normal position. This is the part as to whether you believe there has been “equal contributions” to the creation of matrimonial assets.

Under Australian law the split would probably be 50/50,

Don’t know where you get that from, there is no “law” or legal assumption that indicates a 50/50 split. Each case is judged on its own merits and circumstances. The 50/50 comes about from the parties themselves who say, that there are 2 of us and therefore ½ to you and ½ to me. Rarely is there ever a complete 50/50 scenario and usually results in one party compromising their position to reach an agreement by consent.

and even possibly with some ongoing support payments to the (ex) wife if she could show that she was unable to support herself.

Yes, that is generally the test, but a lot of factors come into play to come to a final outcome. For instance, she can’t just sit back and say....you must support my life.

It does bother me as after I retire I would no longer be able to get back into my currently well paying job. And if my health was to deteriorate approaching 60 years old, I could end up in a life of relative poverty on a small government pension.

Which is why you should be looking at keeping your inheritance separate. It will be taken into account for any pension entitlement, but if you have an idea of what you’ll be receiving, you could make plans and arrangements to minimise that effect.....

On the other hand the (ex) wife would be set for life with a nice house and a comfortable lifestyle in Thailand. And of course, as an Australian citizen the (ex) wife would also be entitled to pro rata Aussie Aged Pension of around AUD $400 a fortnight when she turns 65.

I read that and get the feeling that some issues will come out if a divorce occurred whereby you may have second thoughts about the suitability of a 50/50 split. Certainly you would jump at a 50/50 if it was to your advantage, maybe it is and maybe it isn’t...too many variables to say here.

I am not planning on getting divorced, but if it ends up that way I would like to know the options.

If you are worried about it now, start considering how you can control the assets etc. I can think of a scenario whereby you could walk away with everything and she would have extreme problems trying to get something back (Just stay out of Aus for a while and have no contact etc). But of course, quite extreme.....

Can anyone give any advice if I would fare any better in a divorce settlement in Thailand?

Not knowing the specific parts of thai law relating to divorce, I couldn’t give you any informed advice. I could speculate however and say that if it was me, I would be looking at Thailand as the preferred jurisdiction. In saying that, not having any children simplifies matters for you and if you are looking at a “fair” outcome, it may not be that much of a drama, but some consideration will be taken to the kids in Thailand if they were under 18 because accept it or not, you would be considered to have adopted the financial obligations of those kids.

The problem with divorce etc is you need two rational people working together. While this may be a generalisation, I would say her view will be to set herself up for her remaining years in Thailand where she didn’t have to worry about money and to give her assets to her kids when she passes away. This may as a result place whats “fair” to you, as a secondary consideration.

Have a look at the Civil and Commercial Code, to give you an idea. There is part which is common property between spouses (sin somros), an another one that is personal property (sin sua tua). At the divorce, you keep you personal property and split 50-50 the common property.

Civil code

You must look into the marriage section AND the divorce section. Some particular clauses can apply. Unfortunately, this website doesn't have all sections about marriage and divorce.

Must of been a very involved divorce to take 3 hours.

Originally Posted by Sebastien

Have a look at the Civil and Commercial Code, to give you an idea. There is part which is common property between spouses (sin somros), an another one that is personal property (sin sua tua). At the divorce, you keep you personal property and split 50-50 the common property.

Civil code

You must look into the marriage section AND the divorce section. Some particular clauses can apply. Unfortunately, this website doesn't have all sections about marriage and divorce.

Thanks for that link Sebastian.
I have been doing some additional research on google which confirms what you say. The 50/50 split in Thailand isn't much better than in Australia.
Only benefit I could find is that in Thailand any inheritance received while married is "personal property" unless specifically willed to both parties in writing. Whether or not the house/land is personal or joint property is unclear with some conflicting information from different sites so far.

^if you're a foreigner it is almost certainly going to be personal property [in the name of the Thai], regardless of the provisions of the CCC, as the Land Code provision on this issue is clear - in the case of foreign/thai couple relationships, the land is personal property of the Thai.

Originally Posted by William

^if you're a foreigner it is almost certainly going to be personal property [in the name of the Thai], regardless of the provisions of the CCC, as the Land Code provision on this issue is clear - in the case of foreign/thai couple relationships, the land is personal property of the Thai.

What might the consequences be if the Thai half failed to notify the land office that they were married to a foreigner and hence did not have the foreigner sign the doco that stated that the money was solely the property of the Thai?

Originally Posted by Panda

Aged pension continues while overseas unlike disability pension which cuts off if you live elsewhere for more than 13 weeks p/a.

Do you have that info on good first hand information?

In general, a person must be an "Australian resident", as defined in the Social Security Act 1991, in order to qualify for Australian social security payments. An Australian resident is a person who resides in Australia and has permission to remain permanently
Exceptions to the residence rules for income support.

The principle that only Australian residents should qualify for social security payments is fundamental to the Australian income support system. Exceptions to this principle are limited to Special Benefit (the "payment of last resort") and family payments (comprising Family Tax Benefit, Maternity Allowance, Maternity Immunisation Allowance, Child Care Benefit and Double Orphan Pension).

Have read the Australian Age pension to bits, and it is paid overseas, provided you have lived in Australia for 25 years or more, it does not say you had to be gainfully employed for those years. So I left at the ripe old age of 40, did a swing for 1.5 years, now live here in LOS.
Return to Aussie in 11 years time and bingo apply for the aged pension.
BUT I'm sure they will raise the retirement age before I make it that far.
Will keep my fingers crossed.
Divorce is simple in Thailand if she agrees to it. Pattaya civil servant tried to suggest to my ex that she should squeeze me for 100k, but the ex knew I had nothing left, she'd alreaddy stolen it all.
Took 10 minutes, had the certificate transferred onto the back of a T-Shirt, made for a good conversation piece, and the bar girls loved it, had to beat them of with a stick - I wish!!

Originally Posted by Ban Saray

Divorce is simple in Thailand if she agrees to it.

And if she doesn't? Just walk away I guess? She will have the house anyway right.

yes, a lot of guys have just wandered off, not much point in fighting it, and who intheir right mind would check Thailands registrar if someone wanted to be silly enough to try again???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ban Saray
Divorce is simple in Thailand if she agrees to it.

__________________________________

And if she doesn't agree, you must have a ground to divorce, according to the Civil and commercial Code. Grounds are at section 1516. For example, if she deserted for a year or you live seperately for 3 years.

Also if she became insane , got a physical disadvantage , has broken a bond of good behaviour , is beating you etc..

Originally Posted by TizMe

Originally Posted by Panda

Aged pension continues while overseas unlike disability pension which cuts off if you live elsewhere for more than 13 weeks p/a.

Do you have that info on good first hand information?

In general, a person must be an "Australian resident", as defined in the Social Security Act 1991, in order to qualify for Australian social security payments. An Australian resident is a person who resides in Australia and has permission to remain permanently
Exceptions to the residence rules for income support.

The principle that only Australian residents should qualify for social security payments is fundamental to the Australian income support system. Exceptions to this principle are limited to Special Benefit (the "payment of last resort") and family payments (comprising Family Tax Benefit, Maternity Allowance, Maternity Immunisation Allowance, Child Care Benefit and Double Orphan Pension).

Re the Aussie Aged Pension. Here's what I understand the rules are, --
1. you are entitled to the Aussie Aged Pension if you have been a resident of Australia for 25 years between the ages of 16 and 65.
2. Residence means living in Australia.
3. Overseas absences from Australia exceeding 26 weeks continuously are not counted as periods of residence. But if you have your 25 years of residence already under your belt it doesn't matter how long you stay away overseas. However, if like my Thai wife (who is also an Australian citizen not yet with 25 years residency), periods away overseas exceeding 26 weeks will NOT count towards her residency qualification. So, for me it will be no problem to get the Aussie Pension while living overseas since I already have my 25 years residency. But for my wife, she only gets pro-rata based on her percentage of 25 years residency. This means that if she was to go live in Thailand permanently after only 12 and a half years of residency and not return to Australia again, she would be entitled to only half the full Aged pension.

I did talk to a bloke from centrelink on the phone a year or two ago and he confirmed I would be entitled to the Aussie OAP even if I lived in Thailand, but these verbal confirmations are not worth the paper they are written on. Rules change and its a sure bet that they wont get any easier for pensioners if the government has its way. There may well be some further fine print that I am missing also, but I hope not.

Here's the link to the info. http://www.centrelink.gov.au/interne...019_0703en.rtf

I am pretty satisfied that I have the OAP rules worked out for the time being. Now its Medicare that I have to start to try and figure out.

Well that all seems more promising than I thought it would.

I doubt that I will ever qualify on financial grounds, but I might have to go back and clock up another 5 years, just in case something goes pear shaped.

Originally Posted by TizMe

Well that all seems more promising than I thought it would.

I doubt that I will ever qualify on financial grounds, but I might have to go back and clock up another 5 years, just in case something goes pear shaped.

Not sure if this link will work for you if you are not a member of Qsuper.
Cookies and all that stuff.
Let me know if it works. Its a good ready reckoner re OAP entitlements considering income and assets.

QSuper - Centrelink age pension estimator

Yep, link works fine. Thanks.

I can probably qualify if I was to buy a house and lower my current assets a bit.

Originally Posted by donmeurett

Must of been a very involved divorce to take 3 hours.

Not really, just bureaucracy at its best.

Originally Posted by Fabian

Very easy in Thailand if you have married in Thailand too. All you need is your ID card (for Thais) or passport and your marriage certificate, two witnesses and 20 Baht. Provided that your wife is willing to get divorced too of course. Can be done at any ampuer.
Normally it could be done in not more then ten minutes.
Well, in my case it took more than three hours but that's another story.

Can the Amphur provide the two witnesses? A guy I met months ago while traveling through Bangkok emailed me and asked if I can come there to be a witness. He is an American married to a Thai girl. I am not too interested in going, so if there is a way out.

You can ask anyone for a handful of baht to be your witness.

Originally Posted by Fabian

You can ask anyone for a handful of baht to be your witness.

Really. So I can tell him to pick someone off the street, and pay them 100 baht That save me the trip to Bangkok.

Thanks.

CRSD, I would not feel that secure in your case. Have you checked with a lawyer?