Disaster alert! New Build...

**ralphlsasser** · 27-11-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by ltnt

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

but I ain't gonna be sending my blood pressure through the roof here...

Anyone taking bets on this? I reckon about 1 week into the build.

A week? I'll bet within 5 days.

**Simon43** · 27-11-2011, 11:20 AM

Yes, agreed, however the title submittal through the 'Land Department," clearly states that this title is under a 30+30+30 lease

Like I said, you can say the moon is made of blue cheese, but that doesn't make it so.

Best of luck for your renewal after 30 years

Simon

**rickschoppers** · 27-11-2011, 11:50 AM

Good thread and some very true words have been spoken. I am in the process of trying to start a build as well and things have changed due to the lack of knowledge in Thailand when it comes to building. Instead of a two story house, I have settled for a one story and like the original poster, I am on 4 rai and have plenty of room to spread out instead of going up. My original idea for a 2 story was to maximize on a decent view, but that can be accomplished with the 1 story as well.

It has taken me six weeks to get the retaining wall started after making the mistake of getting other family too involved. I am back to the original plan of allowing the brother-in-law to build the wall since he has many years of block wall experience. We have ordered the steel, cement, sand, rock and block and will be digging the posts starting tomorrow.

My orininal house plans have all been scrapped after receiving some rediculous quotes. I will be taking my latest ideas to Udon soon to have proper plans drawn up so that I at least have some sort of roadmap to follow. Without the plans, it is next to impossible to explain my ideas to a builder and I am not willing to let him stray too far.

Good luck to you and my advice is to listen to most posters here since many have been there and done that.

**Simon43** · 27-11-2011, 12:49 PM

I will be taking my latest ideas to Udon soon to have proper plans drawn up

As I previously mentioned, it can be financially beneficial to have the OrBorTor planning department draw up the official plans, since they are the authority who will issue your building permit. If they do not like your architect, or feel that they are missing out on tea money etc, then they could find all sorts of reasons why your plans need to be redrawn - by them

Simon

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by ralphlsasser

Originally Posted by ltnt

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

but I ain't gonna be sending my blood pressure through the roof here...

Anyone taking bets on this? I reckon about 1 week into the build.

A week? I'll bet within 5 days.

Maybe less...

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 02:17 PM

Okay, I've been thinking about stuff, and I've put together a floor plan...

Now, I don't know sweet FA about building and sizes and floor plans, etc, so try not to be too harsh - good constructive criticism is appreciated (not from the Belgian Felcher...); once I've had the feedback, made alterations then I'll get an architect to come up with proper plans.

Firstly, it got bigger (and more expensive...); 96 sq.m; I'll aim to get it done at 7,000/sq.m within the house itself, and cheaper for the 3 external areas which I'll explain in a bit:

The house is a very basic 1 floor L-shaped property; should be (he said...) straightforward to build - I designed the rooms within the 16 sq.m size, so that the posts can be within walls/doorways rather than stuck out in open spaces - so, you can see for example that the second bedroom (next to the front door) is 16 sq.m.

You go into a lounge/kitchen area that is 32 sq.m in size.

To the right, the small 3rd bedroom and the toilet are cut up within a 16 sq.m space.

To the left is the large Bed1/study/ensuite room which is 32 sq.m.

Behind the kitchen will be a utility/washroom for the missus; additional kitchen space, storeroom, etc - it'll be at ground level, but probably on a concrete base (?). It should be a very cheap structure, like a big shed really.

At the back on the left will be a raised terrace (same level as the house) for BBQ's, drinking beer, eating outside when the climate allows, etc. I'll probably just concrete and paint the surface at first for the sake of cost. I want this area covered; cheaply (not by the main roof); maybe wood/bamboo/canvas, I'm open to ideas - but the outside areas will be relatively cheap and nasty...

To the front, I want a double garage, workshop area - it'll be open plan, very cheap, covered by some cheapo option, as per the back.

I'm thinking that maybe from the garage area all around the front of the house (arched round to the corner by the bathroom on the right) could be some shingle/pebble type stuff???

I think it looks a bit more like a home now, but it will still be cheap Thaistyle, not European standards and fittings, etc - basic!

Thoughts?

**Seekingasylum** · 27-11-2011, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Simon43

Yes, agreed, however the title submittal through the 'Land Department," clearly states that this title is under a 30+30+30 lease

Like I said, you can say the moon is made of blue cheese, but that doesn't make it so.

Best of luck for your renewal after 30 years

Simon

The Thai legal code recognises the principle of leasing and the option to renew. Even if the land were to be sold on to another the lease constructed in respect of it is still valid. The option to renew is part of the contract and is therefore enforceable under Thai law.

BUT

If the head lessor/owner reneges and declines to renew said lease what are you going to do? Going to court in order to enforce a contract is the avenue but how long will it take and how much will it cost? And, horror of horrors, what if the defendant in the action transpires to be a man of some connection and the Judge becomes disposed against the plaintiff. That's the problem here in Thailand and should never be overlooked. These 30 year renewable leases are frankly no more than intentions and hardly worth the consideration unless of course you are prone to still believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Resale values of properties bought under these promises are almost certainly likely to be adversely affected.

**Marmite the Dog** · 27-11-2011, 02:23 PM

Your doors & windows need a bit of work.

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 02:25 PM

^ it all needs a bit of work... First effort - what should be altered/improved do ya reckon?

I need to keep it simple for the sake of the builders...

**Thetyim** · 27-11-2011, 02:29 PM

Where's the door into the ensuite bathroom?

I bet your wife will not sleep with her head facing the bog

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 02:42 PM

^ I'd never used the s/w package before, and I thought I'd put in an internal wall, but it wouldn't let me put in a door (well spotted...

) - the door would be in the far left corner.

Could move the bed/furniture if need be; no problem; I just put a few items into a couple of rooms to show a very general idea - she can place the furniture where she likes...

**DrAndy** · 27-11-2011, 02:43 PM

nor would I

bogheads

go and talk to an architect, or at least a local draughtsman (in the town hall, as Simon says...) and get some proper plans drawn up; you can alter and revise those after the initial draught as they will have been done on a computer

once you have the proper plans, you can give a copy to three different builders and get quotes for the final product (I suggest that as you will not be there much and don't seem to have much experience)

when you talk to each builder they could give you valuable input on ways to save money and/or make the house better

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

go and talk to an architect

I will do so, I have one ready... I'm also considering if I could get the architect to see the project through (come on site once a week for half a day)? It depends on costs... From reading other threads, it seems that an architect can save you money and help manage the build generally - they have the experience. But at what cost? If I could get him for 60k (plans and half a day a week over the 3-4 months) then I think it'll be worth it.

What do ya think?

**Bogon** · 27-11-2011, 03:21 PM

If you have enough time on your hands Betty, try using Google Sketch-up to make a 3D model.
Seconds to download and easy to use once you get the basics.
It gives you a rough idea of how the property will actually look and allows you to experiment with design changes and aesthetics.

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 03:24 PM

^ thanks, mate - will give it a go, although not everything works on Ubuntu...

The missus isn't impressed with an open plan lounge/kitchen; wants a separate kitchen, maybe outside. Mmm

**Mozzbie47** · 27-11-2011, 03:27 PM

Rickschoppers, l would be interested to hear who you get to do your plans etc in Udon. We will be in Udon in December to have a look around. Sounds like a good place to call home.

**nigelandjan** · 27-11-2011, 03:39 PM

As an infrequent visitor to Thai Betty even I can spot a better arangement in the main bedroom ,, do away with that little window put your bed down there , then where the bed is now build a wall across with a door to give access from one side to create a huge walk in wardrobe ( your missus will love that bit ) and then on the next wall a door into your en-suite , I'd also give serious consideration to whether you really want a bath or not or even one of those poxy shower cubicles , you'll have a good floor area in there so a bog and a basin + cabinet is ample leaving you plenty of room to put a wall halfway across to house one of those nice big waterfall showers , just a fall on the tiles to a drain point in the corner , plenty of room in there for a bit of the old how's your father if the ocasion or anything else arises

**ltnt** · 27-11-2011, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by thegent

Originally Posted by Simon43

Yes, agreed, however the title submittal through the 'Land Department," clearly states that this title is under a 30+30+30 lease

Like I said, you can say the moon is made of blue cheese, but that doesn't make it so.

Best of luck for your renewal after 30 years

Simon

The Thai legal code recognises the principle of leasing and the option to renew. Even if the land were to be sold on to another the lease constructed in respect of it is still valid. The option to renew is part of the contract and is therefore enforceable under Thai law.

BUT

If the head lessor/owner reneges and declines to renew said lease what are you going to do? Going to court in order to enforce a contract is the avenue but how long will it take and how much will it cost? And, horror of horrors, what if the defendant in the action transpires to be a man of some connection and the Judge becomes disposed against the plaintiff. That's the problem here in Thailand and should never be overlooked. These 30 year renewable leases are frankly no more than intentions and hardly worth the consideration unless of course you are prone to still believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Resale values of properties bought under these promises are almost certainly likely to be adversely affected.

Actually, thanks and no thanks are in order. I suppose if one were to take your tact on this issue it is reasonable to assume you have no rights whatsoever in this deal?

Nevertheless, the contract is in place as a perfectly legal and acceptable document for the stated period of 30 years, then ipsofacto, why not the balance of the term? Yea, yea, they will re-nig, or won't be around, or the grand kids want the land. All these scenarios crossed my mind at some point between here and there.

My seller is still here. As well her family is well connected in the community, and finally they like my wife better than me. But then almost everybody likes her better than me. Seems dogs like me. Can't be all bad.

I'm into green cheese on the moon and I ain't backing away. BTW, I sold the house to a Thai couple once and then I had a change of heart and backed out of the deal. Stupid fellow...oh well next time. They were also concerned with the transfer issue. They checked it out and there was absolutely "0" problem.

**ltnt** · 27-11-2011, 05:34 PM

Couple points Bettyboo,
1. It is more cost effective to put all your plumbing back to back. So saying the bedrooms and baths should be arranged to allow joint plumbing. Cost savings.

2. Rural Thais do their cooking outside for the most part usually separate building from the main house or on the squat in the open ground.

3. If you're wife is a Buddhist it is preferred that one sleep facing the "east." Never put you heads toward the bathrooms.

4. Are you or have you checked out the typical Lana house? Concrete columns with wooden construction for all elevated structure. If I can figure out how to transfer some photos of them I'll try to post it here.

5. Consider separating your gray water flow from your brown water waste. Gray water can be used for your gardens. showers, washing clothes, kitchen etc.

6. Thai's being largely "animist," in belief system in rural areas, will have a very different take on weather you want a blessing by the monks or not. One reason is to free all the "ghosts," from your build and future occupation. The blessing of the build itself is always good insurance as well as good relations. It costs very little and the payback is worth it.

7. One belief by rural Thai's is that as long as you draw up plans or make provisions for future expansion of the property prior to the build there is no problem if you later decide to expand the house to your dream configuration. However if there is no plan prior to the build then one is destined to doom if he adds on to the house.

8. I know I'm in for a lot of shit on this but I can take it.

**can123** · 27-11-2011, 06:17 PM

Betty,

Your doors and windows all appear to be in the wrong places. An incorrectly positioned door can eat living space in a room. Advice has already been given about reducing plumbing costs.

I think the way forward is to pinch one of the free plans which are available and modify it. The essentials of house design will be incorporated in the initial plan. Then, with this amended plan, do as Dr. Andy says and take it to an architect/town planning guy for final copy and approval.

We all have visions of our dream homes but without proper experience we tend to make a bollocks of things. I've done lots of daft things with my "dreams" and have been forced to go back to the drawing board many times. I would consult with professionals outside Thailand first, if possible, and pick their brains on designing a new house. I have a few friends who worked in our local town planning department who have helped me. I'm not suggesting that you incur any costs outside Thailand, just get more clued up on things that other people regard as being obvious in planning a house.

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

give access from one side to create a huge walk in wardrobe

I did think about this, the ensuite bathroom could easily by cut down to allow for it.

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

just a fall on the tiles to a drain point in the corner

Yep, this might be how it ends up, saves some money; and is how the Thais like it...

Originally Posted by ltnt

It is more cost effective to put all your plumbing back to back. So saying the bedrooms and baths should be arranged to allow joint plumbing. Cost savings.

That's reasonable - I'll have a rethink...

Originally Posted by ltnt

Thais do their cooking outside for the most part usually separate building from the main house

I'm gonna have to work on the kitchen idea... Half inside/half out; all outside; sectioned off, not sure, but needs thought. (or maybe I don't think at all and just ask her how she would like the kitchen to be...).

Originally Posted by ltnt

have you checked out the typical Lana house?

She doesn't like wood - concrete is nicer don't you know...

Originally Posted by ltnt

Consider separating your gray water flow from your brown water waste.

Yep. I'll need to invest a bit of time thinking about this, and chatting to the dad - maybe he is planning to do that already (maybe not...).

Originally Posted by ltnt

"animist,"

Plenty of room for a big spirit house out front... Always useful if you come home pissed and forgot your keys; something to eat and drink while you think which window you're gonna climb through (wouldn't wanna choose the MIL's by mistake!).

Originally Posted by can123

Your doors and windows all appear to be in the wrong places. An incorrectly positioned door can eat living space in a room.

The doors need a bit of work - don't really know about the windows until we see the site, angle of the sun, complete plans, etc - then I'll let somebody who's smarter than me make the choices... This would be where the architect should have some solid ideas.

Originally Posted by can123

take it to an architect

Yep.

Originally Posted by can123

I would consult with professionals outside Thailand

But, I would not. Let the Thais do what only Thais know how to do...

Many thanks for your suggestions.

**Mid** · 27-11-2011, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by [B]ltnt[/B]

brown water waste.

point of order ,

black water is the correct terminology I believe .

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 06:45 PM

^ you haven't heard about the MIL's 'condition'?

**Mid** · 27-11-2011, 06:48 PM

too much info

**Bettyboo** · 27-11-2011, 06:53 PM

^ you did notice how her bathroom was at the furthest reaches of the abode...

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