Thread: EPS panels, Rhino wall, Fiber cement board, etc

Hi all!

I'm doing the research (reading & watching lots of YT vids) for a future construction project, namely apartments for rent OR apartments w/ house attached (mixed use building). There's land already.

I saw the materials like EPS panels, rhino wall, fiber cement board (Hardieflex), etc.

Also, the Q-con blocks that I've seen mentioned here, are they the AAC - autoclaved aerated concrete?

Anyone who has experience using any of the above-mentioned materials? For walls, slab, ceiling, etc? Pros & cons?

I'm still partial to the good ol' method of using CHB and cement slab, but I'm open to new ideas.

Thanks in advance. Salamat!

Be careful working with cement fibre board Katie

This is moi randomly cutting holes in the double cement board panels in my bathroom floor without any PPE to try and find the old bath drain pipe that had been boarded up (second attempt was successful).

I had assumed that the boards were too young to be any risk from asbestos.

The boards had been laid upside down so the warning message was on the underside when I cut it open to reveal the message '..ource of Respi..'

i.e. Source of Respiratory Hazard

It turns out that even though my assumption was correct, even modern silicon fibre board is dangerous and can cause silicosis if the dust gets in your lungs

^thanks, looper. That looks nasty - the respiratory hazard stuff.

I think asbestos isn't used in newer builds anymode (here in PH) but they're still present in older commercial/ industrial buildings.

The newer building in my workplace - the indoor wall partitions were made of cement boards but the outside walls were made with CHB. I've also discovered that at the mall near my mom's place, cement boards were also used for the shop/ wall partitions. That mall was built around 1999 & opened in 2000. I've known about cement boards but I didn't know the generic name. I knew the brand name, which is Hardieflex. I think here in PH, they're more known as Hardieflex; kinda like Xerox, Kodak, Colgate, etc.

I (we) have to decide which to use for indoor wall partitions (cement board or CHB) since as I understand it, the weight will matter in terms of the calculation for the posts/ columns, as it will be a 2-storey building.

Disclaimer: I'm not an engineer or architect, so I'm slowly learning abt these things. I already have an idea of what's to be built and have drawn them on paper (Version 1, 2, 3, etc). We'll have to hire an architect, struct engr, etc to do the build plans. I'll do the legwork with regards to obtaining the build permit, occupancy permit, etc.

As to the build itself, I (we) will be hiring a contractor to do it. Here, the contractor can either do: labor + materials (package deal) or labor only. We're somewhat partial to the labor-only deal, so that we know the quality & quantity of materials (and won't be short-changed by the contractor). As such, we'll be buying the materials based on the bill of quantities provided by the contractor or engr. I've already started canvassing/ window shopping at hardware stores.

I won't be able to supervise daily (which would be ideal) but will probably visit the site once or twice a week. The build won't happen this year but maybe next year (depends on some factors).

Re: AAC, I've learned that there's a source/ company of AAC blocks somewhat near my site. However, I also have to consider the cost. AAC blocks are ~10x the price of CHB.

Fortunately, there are many YT content creators who are licensed engineers, architects, contractors, foremen, etc. They're Filipinos, so they're used to the conditions in the construction industry here - which helps. Some of them (the bigger channels with 100k or 200k+ subscribers) also have English subtitles for their vids. (useful for those who have foreign spouse/ partner & plan to build a house or apartments in PH).

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Anyway, these are just random thoughts. If you guys have any advice/ knowledge/ wisdom to impart, either re: EPS panels, Rhino walls, fiber cement boards or about the general construction process, I'll be all ears (or eyes). TIA.

Originally Posted by Looper

double cement board panels in my bathroom floor

On a bathroom floor ???

Never seen or heard about such being used for that.

Condolences

Originally Posted by katie23

Also, the Q-con blocks that I've seen mentioned here, are they the AAC - autoclaved aerated concrete?

Yes, "Q-CON" is just one brand of AAC.

The relative costs of AAC compared to other materials doubtless vary from country to country. Locally to me in rural Thailand, which is not a wealthy area, I can see that more and nore house builds have opted for AAC over the past three years. Although the blocks might cost more per square metre of wall they have several advantages over the cinder blocks and red bricks that used to be favourite. The first is thermal insulation, I rented a small brick house before building my own home and that was like a pizza oven, the walls stayed hot into the evenings as the aircon struggled. My house now doesn't get so hot and the aircons don't have to work so hard. There are other pluses for AAC: it is easy to work and speedy to build, it has soundproofing qualities, it is fireproof and can be loadbearing - you'd need to check your building regs.

^thanks for the feedback, Shutree. Yeah, I've watched about the great properties or AAC (or Q-con). The factors which would make me use Q-con instead of CHB would be availability of supply and price. AFAIK, only few stores sell it and it's more exp. Accdg to this vlog, one can buy a CHB block at P15 per pc, while AAC = P180 per pc.

I've been watching several vids of this Engr. He's now based on Dubai & employed in a firm which builds high rises. Prior to that, he was a practicing civil engr in PH. I've been watching his vids (and taking notes), as well as the channel of "Architect Ed".


(there are English subtitles, if anyone's interested)

In my subdivision (mooban) now, there are maybe 4 or 5 apartment buildings (2 or 3 storey) being built. They're at various stages of construction. All of them use CHB, from what I've seen. Each apartment is usually small, ranging in 4*5 m, 4*6 m, 3.5*6 m, 3.5*7 m, 3.5*8 m, etc. They're usually occupied by couples or work-mates (ppl working for the same company). They're similar in size to typical condo units in Manila (studio type), which measures 4*6m.

Originally Posted by katie23

All of them use CHB

Cheapest and easiest to build with but not the best for insulating.
Polly ok for rental units if you setup so very little direct sunlight. For example 2 meter eves and foliage.

Katie, from what i gather you are trying to decide between dry lined walls, i.e. metal frame and cement board and AAC. As Shu mentioned AAC will reduce thermal transfer and noise.

If your end game is simply to gain a rental income and quick ROI (return on investment) and there is a ready customer supply that is indifferent to the choice you are making then go with the cheapest - the difference in weight should not make much difference in the size of support beams you will require. The roof material will likely be more a factor than your internal walls.

Thanks @norton & @mike for the inputs.

@norton - the land is inside a mooban and the frontage faces east. As of now, I want the building to face east so that all apartments get the morning sun. Also, most ppl there (the target clients) do their laundry by hand. So the balcony/ hallway usually serves as a place for drying clothes The morning sun will be good for their laundry.

@mike - yes, there will be a ready customer supply (or I'm fairly confident abt it). The land is in a good location. It's inside a mooban but the gate of the mooban is fairly close to the highway (5 to 10 min walk).

And yes, we are concerned about ROI too. It won't be a fancy build. It will be functional & good for the proletariat. We haven't decided on the material for the roof yet. It will be similar to your wife's "looms". If you remember, I was interested in that build. A pity that you didn't show pics of the "finished product" but I understand your need for privacy.

The project may be similar to this vid. Instead of commercial space on the ground floor, it will be apartments/ flats too; total of 4 flats. The flats in the vid measure 5*6m each; mine may be 4*6m or 4*7m (it depends). The position of the toilet may be changed too (to behind the kitchen sink), but you'll get the general idea.

I could twist the building (90 degrees) and make it oriented sideways so that I can build 6 units (not 4). The lot/ land has a measurement of 10*18m (10 m frontage).

The floor plan is at ~6:00.

Originally Posted by katie23

It will be similar to your wife's "looms". If you remember, I was interested in that build.

Yes, she's built another 2 blocks of 4 on land she has and i think that will be it now, she's got enough income to retire and keep me fed and watered

Originally Posted by katie23

Anyone who has experience using any of the above-mentioned materials? For walls, slab, ceiling, etc?

Locally we have is gypsum board, which might or might not be the same as Hardieflex, at least similar, which is used in most residential homes as ceiling material. I haven't seen it used to make dry walls locally. I think it is more useful in commercial buildings where it might be necessary to move internal walls during the lifetime of the building. In my area it is mainly red brick for internal walls. I used Q-CON for the bedroom for the thermal and sound insulation. Also my internal walls are small, it's a small house, so the additional cost was small.
We have a lot of termites here and they love wood. From what I have seen of drywall construction, the board is mounted on wooden frames and I'd expect the termites to get into those. I had a drywall extension on my last house in UK and it was fine there. Here, where they don't usually install a damp-proof course, I wouldn't risk it.

Originally Posted by katie23

I could twist the building (90 degrees) and make it oriented sideways so that I can build 6 units

MM knows about this business. It is a business so I'd definitely go for 6 units and no need to use the most expensive materials. The extra outlay will be small per extra unit and the income will be 50% more.
Turning it sideways means either the front or the back will face south, which should be okay for their laundry.

^^ they have cement board in thailand sold under the brand name smart board

Originally Posted by katie23

I've done the maths and if all units are occupied, the income will be enough to pay the loan+interest (fixed rate loan, 5 years or 10 years to pay, with monthly installments).

You won't get 100% over the loan period so factor in approx 8% vacancy in your income.

^Yes, thank you, Mr Norts. If the income from the apartments is not enough to pay the monthly amortization for the loan, I can supplement it with my salary. I just have to tighten my belt or have additional streams of income, etc.

I've done the maths, since the interest rates are stated in the govt housing website. If it's a 10-year loan, the monthly payments are smaller but the overall interest alone is almost double the amount and alnost reaches the original loan amount (principal). I think I'll opt for a 5-year loan.

I have another small property that I could sell to partially finance my build, but I'm reluctant to sell it (it's idle at the mo). Land prices continue to increase, so if I sell it in 2, 5 or 10 years, its value would be even higher. I'd rather take a loan than sell the land. Is that wise? I dunno, but that's my position for now.

The build or loan won't happen this year but probably will occur next year. So now I'm planning, drawing, watching vids on construction, etc.

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The PH is a small country and there are so many Filipinos (100+ M and counting), so land prices are constantly increasing. Twenty years ago, the cut of land being sold in subdivisions (moobans) for the middle class was 100 to 150 sqm. Recently, I've seen on vids/ pics and have visited some low-cost housing projects, the cut of the land is ~35 sqm and the row house (attached housing units) has a footprint of 20 or 24 sqm (4*5 or 4*6). These are usually 2-storey townhouses, so total floor area would be 40 or 48 sqm.

I've seen (from pics of a colleague - he visited the site) low cost housing units which are 2-storey, 3*5 m per storey = even smaller!

These low cost housing units can be bought via cash basis (seldom happens), bank loan or govt housing loan. The terms of the loan deoends on the age of the loan applicant (10, 15, 20, 25, 30), similar to home mortgages I guess.

That's why for ordinary rentals for starting couples, families or work-mates, a 20 sqm (4*5m) flat is sufficient.

Here's an example of a low-cost housing row house (2-storey townhouse). The ground floor is 4*6 or 4*7, I think. The vlogger and his mates installed a tubular style roof/ floor for the upper floor. (2nd floor for Americans, 1st floor for Brits & Europeans - so confusing! That's why I just say ground or upper floor.) The flooring is made of tubes + plywood. The vlogger also showed the outside/ exterior - how the rowhouses look like. I think for these type of housing units, the owner gets the unit as bare and it's up to them to make improvements (kitchen cabinets, upper floor, rooms upstairs, etc).

Total cost for the project was ~P48,000 or ~873 usd (P55: 1 usd). I don't know if it included the cost of the stairs, since they also made the stairs in a previous vid. Just view it faster (1.25x or 1.5 speed), since he talked in Tagalog. (magkano = how much)



I know this is vastly different from the palatial houses found in this forum, but hooray for diversity.

Originally Posted by katie23

If it's 4 units, it'll cost around P2 M (~36,400 usd), if it's 6 units, around P3 M (~54,550 usd).

Builders usually quote by the square metre because it is easy for them to do. However, there are quite a few costs that shouldn't go up 50% for the extra units, such as boundary wall, water and electricity connection and sewage out. The whole project cost for 6 units should be a little cheaper, per unit, than building 4 units.

Originally Posted by katie23

I know this is vastly different from the palatial houses found in this forum, but hooray for diversity.

For my build, we were somewhat constrained by what the local builders knew how to do. I wouldn't trust an Isan village team with anything too innovative.

Roof colour: which roof colour is best? I'm choosing among red, green and off-white (pre-painted sheets).

I've heard/ read you guys say that a light-colour roof will be cooler for the entire house/ structure. But if I choose off-white, will it look dirty in time? How about maintenance?

It will be a gable type roof (triangular), the material GI corrugated sheets (for budget reasons). There will be steel framing/ trusses (I don't know the right term for them).

If the roof is red, the exterior walls will be cream/ beige (similar to stumpy's palatial house, lol). If the roof is green, the building will be light green. If the roof is off-white, the building will be off-white/ cream/ ecru (or similar colour).

The interior walls will be off-white/ ecru since the spaces will be small. Each flat will be 20 sqm (4*5) in size.

My clients/ tenants will most likely not have A/C but will have (electric) fans.

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Re: the size of the building, we've agreed to build 6 units and orient the building sideways (facing north). Mom & I both agreed that we want to maximize the use of the land. Land prices are so high now (here in PH). Probably because the Chinese are getting some land (I don't know the specifics but it happens at high levels - but that's another matter! ).

Re: sizes of flats/ apartments here in PH. I thought that 20 sqm is already small for a flat. I saw on YT that now, ppl here in PH have built flats measuring 15 sqm (5*3) and even 12 sqm (3*4)! 12 sqm is smaller than the size of S. Landreth's bathrooms! (in his hotel rooms)

Kate, we are both prone to Hurricane damage.

Avoid gable end construction and IF you can afford it, use metal sheeting.