Thread: Turn your PC into something about as flexible as a manual typewriter

^^

Nice Troll. But doesn't get a rise out of me. You're obviously bullshitting now.

Originally Posted by chupacabra

Again, I am not controlling what you do.

but you are indirectly, that's what you fail to understand.

Originally Posted by chupacabra

You really need to spend sometime educating yourself as to what I am talking about. You yourself say you don't know and you keep arguing about it.

I think I got it alright, from your explanation this is exactly what it is. You might be too blind to see it though.

Originally Posted by chupacabra

I am just taking your stupidity and the "OS security" shortcomings out of the equation.

more like ignoring it as you can't address the real issue here, that is OS security

Originally Posted by chupacabra

And again, what do you mean by "dynamic" and "active"? What exactly do you plan to do with the corporation's computer?

and here we go, showing that you have no clue what a corporate desktop does outside your limited "appliance" world. Thanks for proving my point. Nothing wrong per se with the corporate appliance and the software you are advocating, but it's limited and it's not real security.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Sorry.... do go on, I'm all ears!

Good one

a lot of questions remains though with DeepFreeze like all those virtual system, they are not very convenient to manage and can be limited in their use if your corporate desktop run very specific applications or proprietary applications

Installed a program on our network a few months ago and have worked out a
lot of the kinks and issues with it. Thought I would share those things
with you for anyone that may have such issues with this program in the
future. First a little introduction to the program so everyone knows what
it is, then the issues I had and how I solved them in Windows XP.

Deep Freeze, as I am sure everyone knows, is a fascinating little program
which when installed on Windows, it will save the configuration of the
entire drive and restore it back to the way it was upon rebooting the
computer. I use it to save my 'C:' drive. Anything that is installed on my
computer and any changes that are made to it go back to its original state
upon reboot. This includes little nasty programs like viruses and spyware
and the such like. It basically provides peace of mind for those with
computers that either go through a lot of installations and changes, or
those whose computers are used by the rest of the family.

The issues I had with Deep Freeze are the following:

a.. Needed to allow people to save things on the C: drive in a certain
folder, without changes disappearing upon reboot.

b.. Wanted people to be able to change and keep profile changes, such as
the background desktop.
c.. Wanted to be able to use Offline Caching, without it reverting back to
its old configuration upon reboot.
d.. Wanted to be able to keep the Event Logs, without them reverting back
to their old configuration upon reboot.


Solution to Saving Information

The solution to most of these issues, including this one, was basically to
create another partition, then redirect.



I created a 'D:' drive and called it 'Data' where changes can be stored and
kept. Although the professional version of Deep Freeze has the ability to
create a 'virtual drive' where these changes can be kept, I would recommend
it. A 'virtual drive' is not seen unless the operating system is up and
running and would be very difficult to retrieve information on it upon total
failure of the computer.


One of my issues was the fact that one of our very old programs saved some
output to a folder on the root drive called "Billing". To get around the
issue of losing the "Billing" information upon reboot, I created the folder
on the D:/ drive and used a program called JUNCTION to created a 'symbolic
link' on the C:/ drive.



The results was a 'virtual' folder on the C:/ drive called Billing which
actually saves everything on the 'real' folder on the D:/ drive.



Solution to Keeping Profile Changes

The next issue was allowing people to change and keep their profiles
changes. There are a few solutions to this and I will go over it with you
as well as the quirky things that happened in my testing.



For profile changes, Faronics has a program on their website called
MappingTool which is supposed to somehow re-direct such folders and allow
you to keep such changes. More about this can be found on the Faronics
website in a whitepaper that talks about this issue. This is not what I
did, thus I cannot write more about it. I will say however that it is
possible to come across a certain issue of profile duplication that is
listed below in another solution I tried.



Another way I tried was to create a folder on the D:\ drive and call it
Documents and Settings (exactly the way it is on the C: drive). I then
created the profile in a 'thawed' mode and restarted the computer to get out
of the profile all together. I then logged on as the administrator and
copied the profile to the D:\ drive, then went into the registry to change
the location of where Windows should find the directory. The registry key
locations are found at:



\\My Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Win dows
NT\CurrentVersion\ProfileList\{Bunch of Numbers}



(this registry location has only been confirmed for Windows XP)



Find the setting that points to the profile saying something like,
"%systemroot%\Documents and Settings\{username}" and change it to
"D:\Documents and Settings\{username}"



Issues in resolving the Profile Savings Solution

The issue with doing this is that you must do it individually with each user
as the profile is created. You see, the profile is a combination of the
files in the Documents and Settings, and the registry that points to those
files.



Although the files are saved on the D:\ drive, and thus do not revert back
to their original configuration upon reboot, the registry however is saved
on the C:\ drive, and it DOES revert back to its original configuration.



Each time a new profile is created in Windows, it puts an entry in the
registry telling Windows where to find the profile for the user, then it
puts the 'Default Profile' files in that location.



For a good idea about what this scenario could cause, you can try changing
the location in the registry that points to where these files could normally
go and cause it to save the new default location to the D:\ drive.



What would happen is, if a new profile is created in a frozen mode, it will
put the files on the D:\ drive and put a setting in the registry as to where
to find the files. Upon reboot however, the registry will revert back to
what it was without the new profile entry, and the files on the D:\ drive
will remain. Thus, when the new user logs in again, not finding an entry in
the registry to the new profile, it will attempt to create the files again
on the D:\ drive and put an entry in the registry again to the new files.
However, the files will already be there. Windows will think this is
another profile from some other time and create new files and a new
location. This will literally repeat itself several times until you have a
full drive filled with new profiles.



Another solution to the Profile Savings

Another solution was for me to use Roaming Profiles. For those familiar
with Roaming profiles, you must have to log on to a Domain Controller to use
Roaming Profiles, and this solution would not be for the average home user.



For those interested in this solution however, this works quite well. The
only problem is that the computer has a slow log on each time the profile is
downloaded from the server and placed on the computer anew.



To fix the issue of a slow logon each time the profile is saved anew to the
C:\ drive was to use the Domain Policies and 'not' save the 'Desktop' nor
the 'My Documents' folders in the profile, which is where most users would
have the most information. Then I redirected those folders to a server
where I could successfully back them up on a regular basis.



Another issue I had with Roaming Profiles however was in saving a picture on
the Desktop. Seemed like sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I
found out that the issue wasn't with the Roaming Profiles but rather with
Active Desktop. It appears that when a picture in a jpg format is saved on
the Desktop, it utilizes Active Desktop and automatically transforms the
picture so it can be displayed, and putting some registry entries in the
computer (remember that the registry is in a frozen state).



I never did find a fix for it, but I was able to get around it. Simply
convert the jpg to a bmp file, and turn off the Active Desktop through the
Domain Policies. Bmp files seem to stick while only jpg files have an
issue.



Solution to Offline Caching of Networked Drives

I came across this issue mostly with laptops that were sometimes removed
from the network for use in the field. I needed a way for people to save
things to their laptop, usually 'My Documents' without the Offline Caching
reverting back to it's old state (since it is stored on the C: drive)



For this solution, I went into Safe Mode and used a program called
CacheMov.exe from the Microsoft Server Resource Kit (do a google search on
this one). Works great.



For those without access to CacheMov, another program called Junction also
works good. Just move the hidden CSC folder to the D:/ drive, then use
junction to create a 'symbolic link' (UNIX Lingo) to that folder. The
command would be something like:



JUNCTION C:\CSC D:\CSC



I have not had any issues with this, other than the fact that it needs to be
done in Safe Mode.



Solutions to Saving the Event Logs

Another simple solution, just save the event logs on the D:/ drive. Create
your folder "I call mine Event Logs" on the D:/ drive and redirect the
registry setting to point there. The registry location can be found at:

"\\My
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlS et\Services\EventLog"



I have not had any issues with doing this either.

Chupa,

I'm guessing you once had to maintain 20 PCs in a call centre.

Some of us have slighty more diverse requirements than that, and locking down PCs with Deep Freeze is not an option.

Any tech "worth his salt" would understand that.

Wow, Butterfly, 100% 0wned, and not even aware of it -- how bloody apropos is that?

....and he cluelessly continues. This is simply too good.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Chupa,

I'm guessing you once had to maintain 20 PCs in a call centre.

I think he already let slip that sum total of his experience is maintaining 20 computers in his school's library. Oh yeah, 'Corporate' experience, indeed.

The fact that he hasn't grabbed the bet I've offered with both hands, and 0wned me by verifiably revealing his vast corporate experience is really proof enough of the total lack of his experience. He's a troll, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Any tech "worth his salt" would understand that.

indeed!

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I'm guessing you once had to maintain 20 PCs in a call centre.

that's my guess too, and indeed in such an environment it would make sense, as the drones are running specific repetitive tasks and doing nothing else than most normal corporate users would do.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Some of us have slighty more diverse requirements than that, and locking down PCs with Deep Freeze is not an option.

indeed, and that's why running an appliance and a corporate desktop are two different things,

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by mc2

there is a freeware alternative
Returnil - The Real Security for your home or business - Download RVS now to protect your PC.

that's what I thought, it's a "virtual" system for computer appliances or kiosks, basically a big "reset" system. It's the coward and cheap way for an IT department to solve desktop problems because their staff are too lazy or incompetent to take care of things properly, that is doing proper desktop integration and consistent deployment policies. Works fine for a school I guess that has limited IT staff or when the IT department is run by clueless monkeys, but it's hardly a good solution or even a credible solution for users doing real work. Might as well buy a mac if I wanted to have some kind of "useless appliance"

Its not a "cowardly" solution, its one of the best ways to manage it infrastructure in cases when the end user is using cloud computing applications either with front end local applications with data stored on the server or web based (intranet/internet) applications. why make it more difficult for the IT monkeys when you dont have to ? you and a few others on here still have a 1990's attitude to managing IT...

Originally Posted by mc2

Its not a "cowardly" solution, its one of the best ways to manage it infrastructure in cases when the end user is using cloud computing applications either with front end local applications with data stored on the server or web based (intranet/internet) applications.

that is still "coward", that is deporting the responsibility of your job on the shoulder of the user and some restrictive software.

ok, it's cheap and easy, I understand that, and in terms of costs it's also an argument for some corporation, as you can run the thing on a limited IT team. However, this come at the cost of flexibility for the user and his work.

Don't get me started on the cloud computing fad, because it's so dysfunctional, it's laughable. It's great if you are a gay Web 2.0 Facebook geek writing for MacToday.com magazine, but it's hardly usable and strategically dangerous.

Originally Posted by mc2

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by mc2

there is a freeware alternative
Returnil - The Real Security for your home or business - Download RVS now to protect your PC.

that's what I thought, it's a "virtual" system for computer appliances or kiosks, basically a big "reset" system. It's the coward and cheap way for an IT department to solve desktop problems because their staff are too lazy or incompetent to take care of things properly, that is doing proper desktop integration and consistent deployment policies. Works fine for a school I guess that has limited IT staff or when the IT department is run by clueless monkeys, but it's hardly a good solution or even a credible solution for users doing real work. Might as well buy a mac if I wanted to have some kind of "useless appliance"

Its not a "cowardly" solution, its one of the best ways to manage it infrastructure in cases when the end user is using cloud computing applications either with front end local applications with data stored on the server or web based (intranet/internet) applications. why make it more difficult for the IT monkeys when you dont have to ? you and a few others on here still have a 1990's attitude to managing IT...

Absolutely nothing wrong in using this approach when all of your users are using thin client or cloud applications. The PC then becomes a simple network access appliance. I'd probably use a different OS rather than Windows, so I could get away with getting a few more years out of my older PCs. Oh hang on, that's what I did in the 1990's! For about 1/4 of my user base whose needs it met perfectly. Of course we only had about 1,000 PCs in total then.

Horses for courses.

All you guy's bullshit and still you haven't cited one specific situation where Deep Freeze will prevent your user from using a computer the way he needs to for work.

If I had ONE user it would be ideal.

But if you have a large organisation with a diverse and varying set of needs, and they need to change their installed software on a regular basis, it's no fucking good is it? In fact, it's an obstacle.

Are you that much of a dipshit that you can't understand that, and yet think you can come on here with your somewhat limited support experience and call us all bullshitters?

The reason Deep Freeze exists is because there are fucking idiots like you doing support.

More generic nonsense. Tell me what is it your users have to change on a regular basis?

Actually I just noticed the thread title. It really should be "Turn your computer into something about as USEFUL as a manual typewriter".

And to the Troll Mod that opened this thread, you are completely misrepresenting what I was saying.

We are not talking about YOUR computer here. We are talking about a computer a corporation gave you to do WORK.

Your users need to change stuff all the time? Great. Don't use deep freeze. It depends on who is running the IT and what the users need.

Just curious what harry's users need to change all the time.

Originally Posted by chupacabra

More generic nonsense. Tell me what is it your users have to change on a regular basis?

Oh I don't know, any one of a hundred or so applications, all of which need maintaining?

How do you propose doing that? Putting all of them on every PC and then "freezing it"?

Oh for fuck's sake stop rewriting your posts on the fly, you wanker.

Your users need to change stuff all the time? Great. Don't use deep freeze. It depends on who is running the IT and what the users need.

At the risk of exposing himself as a complete spastic, the man who thought we were all bullshitters has now decided he agrees with us.

*CLAP* *CLAP*


That's the end of that thread then.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

IT jobs is about to fix stupid shit, if it wasn't, we wouldn't need them

good point.

A case of IT telling us how to do our jobs.

Originally Posted by chupacabra

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Your users need to change stuff all the time? Great. Don't use deep freeze. It depends on who is running the IT and what the users need.

At the risk of exposing himself as a complete spastic, the man who thought we were all bullshitters has now decided he agrees with us.

*CLAP* *CLAP*


That's the end of that thread then.

At the risk of exposing himself as a poser and bullshitter he completely ignores direct questions. Just like Daffy.

I'll sit here and wait for the answer.

I exposed Daffy as a poser. Now it's your turn.

AO needs to send better henchmen after me than you guys. You really suck at this.

So, what is it specifically they can't so with deep freeze installed. And what is it your users need to change on a daily basis?


Waiting.

Please read POST 42 you blind twat.

^ app settings and user documents can be stored on the server. admin can still install updates...

Post 42 is more generic bullshit that doesn't mean anything.

I am asking you for Specifically what is it that your users need to do on a daily basis? With what? What application do they need to accomplish their work that doesn't work if you freeze it?

That's what you brought up as the problem. So I am asking.

Post 42 ? I thought that was a joke.

Originally Posted by mc2

^ app settings and user documents can be stored on the server. admin can still install updates...

That entirely depends on the network topology, storage space, backup protocols, etc. That will certainly work in some cases (small company, everyone in the same building, gigabit ethernet, bank-style budgets). Lot more difficult in large campus, average network, poor budget examples.

I am asking you for Specifically what is it that your users need to do on a daily basis? With what? What application do they need to accomplish their work that doesn't work if you freeze it?

And I'll elaborate: a wide variety of tasks in a wide variety of disciplines, using a wide variety of tools. All of which need to be maintained, and none of which are common to more than, say, 50 PCs, bar the usual office apps.

And yes, we need to "change stuff" all the time, especially with the very vertical market apps, where the ISVs are adapting them on a weekly, and sometimes daily basis for us.

Like I said, you stick to your deep frozen computers. Absolutely fantastic for the call centre full of housewives playing solitaire.