Thread: Mobile Internet at 153 kbps using Hutch or CAT CDMA cellular network

I would like to draw your attention to the C-Motech CCU-550 EV-DO modem (USB type), this is the old model but still available from some distributors in Bangkok for about 4,900.- Baht (brand-new).

This EV-DO modem is working with SIM card, so it is not necessary to ask Hutch or CAT CDMA to activate it.
I have used this EV-DO modem in the CAT CDMA network in Thailand with good results.
I just went to the local CAT CDMA office in Udon Thani and bought a SIM card alone (I paid only 99.- Baht).
Then I inserted this SIM card into this EV-DO modem and immediately I was able to connect to Internet with my laptop computer at a good speed, 24 hours a day!

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at any time.
Tel. 086-8618833

CDMA EV-DO has been dropped by CAT

I don't know how much longer the service will be available but it's days are numbered

CDMA EV-DO has been dropped by CAT

I don't know how much longer the service will be available but it's days are numbered

Well, I don't think so.

What may be the reason for cancelling EV-DO service in CAT CDMA? Who told you that?

Probably someone has misunderstood the recent rumour that CAT Telecom is going to cooperate with DTAC to upgrade the old 800 MHz AMPS system owned by DTAC to build a new CDMA network with EV-DO.

Why should CAT CDMA stop their EV-DO service? This is ridiculous. They have a long-term license as far as I know and they have invested millions of dollars to build a new advanced CDMA2000 1x EV-DO network using the most sophisticated infrastructure equipment from Huawei. EV-DO is working perfectly, I have been using it in Udon Thani area and Nongkhai, the network coverage is excellent and the download speed is reaching 1700 kbps and more (up to 2.4 Mbps). Please see the attached screenshot.

We can even use it in Vientiane, Laos. The signal is not so good but we can find a spot or use an external yagi antenna with a booster or install a CDMA repeater available from Thailand CDMA »Ô´ªÑèǤÃÒÇà¾×èÍ u

On the other hand, I noticed that Hutch has stopped promoting EV-DO data service for their customers. About 1 month ago they removed all the EV-DO information from their website. And they are not offering EV-DO any more. I don't know what happened. The customer service says they don't have a stock of EV-DO modems. However I believe there are some technical issues because the Hutch CDMA network is very old, using the old Motorola switch and the new AAA server from another vendor. A lot of software and hardware upgrades are required for every Hutch CDMA base station, and there are some incompatibility issues.

If anyone has some more information please post it here.

Here is a screenshot of the EV-DO speed test I have done in Udon Thani and Nongkhai with an EV-DO modem (Sierra Wireless) that I borrowed from my friend.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at any time
E-Mail: gsm[at]ru.ru
Tel. 086-8618833

If not delayed, they will start converting their net this autumn.

Thailand May Set $200 Million Reserve on 3G Licenses

Latest News : Edge Thailand

And here a link to "CAT abandoning CDMA" , sorry couldn't find the original link to the Bangkok Post article.

CAT ready to abandon CDMA - Carrier\cn-c114 ¡ª C114 - China Communication Network

From Bangkok Post

CAT ready to abandon CDMA
Mobile network will switch over to GSM

BANGKOK: -- CAT Telecom is preparing to abandon CDMA technology for its money-losing mobile-phone service and migrate to the GSM system that is in more widespread use throughout the world.

The state telecom enterprise has held talks with cellular partner Hutchison and with the two operators holding CAT concessions, DTAC and True Move, and all agreed that switching to GSM was the right idea, said a senior CAT executive who asked not to be named.

CAT provides the Hutch CDMA service in 25 central provinces including Bangkok in a joint venture with Hutchison under CAT Wireless Multimedia.

However, the Hutch service has managed to attract only about 700,000 customers in a mobile market of 54 million.

Huawei Technology last year completed a 7.2-billion-baht expansion of the CDMA system to allow CAT to offer nationwide coverage, but the Chinese firm is locked in a dispute with CAT over fines for late delivery of the system.

The expanded network infrastructure would not go to waste because it can be adapted to the GSM platform.

The executive said CAT had concluded that continuing to use CDMA technology would lead to mounting losses because most of the world had now shifted to GSM technology, although CDMA is still popular in the United States and Japan.

''Continuing service on CDMA will lead to a deadlock and we also will miss the technology advancement bandwagon,'' he said.

CAT intends to migrate to HSDPA or High Speed Downlink Packet Access. The technology improves the performance of W-CDMA networks, but more importantly has become the technology of choice for third-generation (3G) services on GSM networks.

With higher data transfer speeds and greater system capacity, mobile users would have access to high-speed broadband multimedia services including internet access and rapid downloading of e-mails with attachments, wireless audio, DVD-quality video and multi-player gaming among other applications.

The executive said it had become clear that operating a nationwide CDMA network would not be financially viable, even if subscriber numbers increased.

A major problem is the new interconnection system, under which operators charge each other for calls handled across different networks. He said that Hutch would end up as a net payer since it has so few customers compared with the three large operators.

The executive said CAT and Hutch agreed that now was an opportune time to start shifting to a new platform since the government was still deciding how to handle the issuing of 3G licences.

If the two big CAT concession holders, DTAC and True Move, migrated to 3G service using the same frequencies allocated to CAT and its state enterprise sibling TOT, more services could be offered based on HSDPA, he said.

He said the switch to GSM would not cost much money because some network infrastructure could be reused.

While there could be some impact on businesses developing content and applications for CDMA, they are expected to be able to adapt quickly and benefit from rapid take-up of new 3G services.

Worldwide, 86% of all cellular customers use 316 GSM-based networks in 147 countries. A total of 190 networks in 83 countries offer WCDMA, and 154 networks in 71 countries have HSDPA.

The executive said that CAT could form joint ventures with Hutch and True Move to provide mobile broadband services using the same 850 MHz bandwidth that CAT and Hutch now use.

-- Bangkok Post 2008-02-22

Originally Posted by Alex

Why should CAT CDMA stop their EV-DO service? This is ridiculous.

Answered in the Bangkok post article, they have only been able to get 700.000 subscribers out of 54 million.
GSM is a world standard, CDMA is mainly used in USA and Japan. And GSM is winning land in USA now as well..

Originally Posted by Alex

On the other hand, I noticed that Hutch has stopped promoting EV-DO data service for their customers. About 1 month ago they removed all the EV-DO information from their website. And they are not offering EV-DO any more. I don't know what happened. The customer service says they don't have a stock of EV-DO modems

They won't have a stock in the future either.
CDMA in Thailand is a dead end road today.
And the road will soon be completely closed

Alex, CDMA is a good system and the line quality is much better than GSM.
I can understand your disappointment, I applied for it myself a few months back.

We have a member here who works for Hutch and he is remaining very silent.
Maybe he will step forward and give us the inside story soon

Well, I don't understand how DTAC is going to implement HSDPA on the frequency of 850 MHz. Technically this is possible but there are no any HSDPA capable GSM phones or modems for this frequency.

I believe the journalists and reporters may have misunderstood the concept.

In my opinion it is more likely that DTAC may be able to upgrade their existing AMPS 800 MHz analog cellular networl license to be authorised to convert their old analog AMPS cellular network to a modern CDMA2000 1x EV-DO network. The amount of paperwork and license upgrade cost is minimal as the frequency spectrum remains the same: the CDMA standard is using exactly the same frequency band allocation as the old AMPS / DAMPS (TDMA) standard.

If they want to implement HSDPA they must use the standard 900 MHz GSM band, but the licensing issues may be quite serious in this case.

In my humble opinion it is better to consider converting the existing DTAC analog AMPS network to a modern CDMA2000 1x EV-DO (Revision C) digital 3G network.

By the way, the HSDPA data speed expectations in a GSM network may be quite high but the reality will disappoint many of us.

I was using the HSDPA data service in Singapore for 6 months last year in the Singapore M1 network ("M1 Broadband").

M1 broadband

The maximum theoretical download speed in HSDPA is 3.6 Mbps.

However in reality (in a real GSM network environment) according to my own experience in Singapore it is only about 200-300 kbps which is considerably lower than EV-DO Revison A speed in CAT CDMA network!

So you mean that in Thailand only AIS has a license to operate a GSM network on 900 MHz?

I thought that DTAC and True were using 900 MHz as well.

Normally GSM 1800 is used in the large cities like Bangkok because the signal can penetrate into the buildings and also GSM 1800 has a higher channel capacity.

But the effective cellsite range is smaller, so the cell density must be higher (more cellsites are required).

GSM 900 is better suited for the provincial areas, the maximum cellsite range being 35 km.

In CDMA 800 the maximum cellsite range may be 50 - 60 km and even more.

Anyway I don't understand how DTAC is going to implement HSDPA on the frequency of 850 MHz. At present there are no HSDPA modems or HSDPA enabled handsets for this frequency. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Originally Posted by Alex

Anyway I don't understand how DTAC is going to implement HSDPA on the frequency of 850 MHz. At present there are no HSDPA modems or HSDPA enabled handsets for this frequency. Please correct me if I am wrong. Alex is online now Add to Alex's Reputation Report Post

Modems is not a problem.

3G Data Cards - Edge Thailand

CDMA in Thailand is a dead end road today.
And the road will soon be completely closed

It is hard to believe that CDMA network in Thailand may be ever closed down.

"Two key advantages of CDMA technology are the relatively low cost per number,
and its potential use as a wireless data service" - said Kuhn Withit Sajjapong, the CAT Telecom president.

I had a chance to compare the performance of CDMA EV-DO (Rev.A) data service in CAT CDMA network and GSM HSDPA data service in M1 GSM network in Singapore. The tests were done in the real network environment.

Whatever they are saying about the theoretical download speed of 3.6 Mbps in GSM HSDPA data service I found that the actual download speed is around 200 - 300 kbps in M1 GSM network in Singapore (I was using HSDPA data service). I believe that even 1.5 Mbps download speed can hardly be reached in practice due to various limiting factors.

HowardForums: Your Mobile Phone Community & Resource - Cingular 3G HSDPA Speed Test

During my tests in CAT CDMA network in Udon Thani and Nongkhai I found that the EV-DO download speed is about 2 times higher (normally around 500 -700 kbps, sometimes reaching the 2 Mbps mark). Please see the screenshot I posted in this thread previously.

I am sure CAT Telecom is not going to close down its CDMA network, one of the most advanced CDMA networks in the world. Millions of dollars have been already invested into this network.

It is a well known fact that CDMA technology is superior to GSM technology. Even the advanced HSDPA data transmission protocol used in 3G GSM is based on the Qualcomm's CDMA technology.

CDMA is spreading rapidly all over the world. Korea is using only CDMA, there are no GSM networks in Korea and your GSM phone will be useless if you go to Korea.

There are more than 250 CDMA networks worldwide with nearly half a billion subscribers.The number of CDMA subscribers is growing every year: China 45 million, Indonesia 15 million, India 65 million. Many countries in Africa and Asia are using CDMA: Korea, India, China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Malaysia, Laos, Philippines, Vietnam, Mongolia, Nepal, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, Nigeria, Kenya, Ghana, Tanzania, Namibia, Cameroun, Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tadzhikistan, Kyrghysstan, Moldova, Romania.

CDMA is very popular in North, South and Central America and the Caribbean: United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina, Dominican Republic, etc.

» 431 Million CDMA Subscribers Worldwide in Q4 2007 » Soft32.com News

CDMA Development Group

Probably it is not a good idea to convert the existing DTAC analog AMPS 800 MHz network to GSM 850 in order to launch 3G in Thailand as soon as possible.

I believe it would be more wise to convert it into a new CDMA 2000 1x EV-DO network. DTAC may consider this option.

Wednesday May 21, 2008

"The Thai market today is still all about voice and fashion and there is no compelling technical or marketing reason for 3G. The ratio of data usage to voice in Thailand is tiny unlike in Europe or Japan.
Despite being behind one of the largest deployments of WCDMA 850 in North America, the recent WCDMA 850 and 900 announcements [in Thailand] are more about building awareness about 3G in Thailand than a serious roll-out. When the time comes for real 3G on the 2.1GHz band, none of the companies would want to invest billions of dollars into running two parallel 3G networks and it is clear which network any operator would rather invest in given a choice between the niche 850/900 or mainstream 2100 bands, though 1900 is an outside possibility.

AIS, Dtac and True Move are aware of the small number of handsets available which are ultra-expensive (on 900 and 850). Not many people are willing to pay 20 to 30,000 baht for a mobile phone today. Claiming that you have launched 3G in Chiang Mai or Mae Hong Sorn is another story and it does raise the awareness of 3G in Thailand." - said Vincent Duda, Managing Director of Alcatel-Lucent Thailand

Source: You can read the Bangkok Post : Readbangkokpost Economics Business Blog

Originally Posted by Alex

I had a chance to compare the performance of CDMA EV-DO (Rev.A) data service in CAT CDMA network and GSM HSDPA data service in M1 GSM network in Singapore. The tests were done in the real network environment.

You can't compare apples and oranges, your test is basically worthless because
it is not cariied out in the same place or with the same equipment.
HowardForum which you linked to has quite a few posts explaining why speed results are not consistent, and what variables are involved.
Without doing any precise calculations, I would say that the average user who has posted in that forum did have 1024/256.
Almost no one had such a miserable speeds as you got from M1 in Singapore..

For CDMA to be closed down in Thailand, I do agree with you.
But CAT will not be the operator of that network in the future.
They will not be allowed for much longer to sit on two chairs, ie being responsible for the infrastructure and handling out licenses while at the same time compete with their customers (the net operators, the service providers).
So right now it is only a matter for CAT how to get rid of it for as much money as possible.
I think you will see that the company that eases CATs burden will have a big advantage when the 3G 2100 licenses will be up for bid later this year

DTAC made a strategical move when they approached CAT for a cooperation, transforming both companies nets into 3G 850.
CAT couldn't make up their mind so DTAC decided to go alone but left an opening for CAT to join in later.
Vincent Duda from Alcatel-Lucent is of the opinion that no operator wants to invest in 2 different 3G networks.
I however believe that DTAC intend to run 3G 2100 in major cities, industrial and tourist areas, and use their present 850 network for 3G in rural areas.
Imagine the cost for populating all of eastern Thailand with short coverage 3G 2100 cells.
Imagine doing that at a time when the climate for foreign investment is questionable and the customers are mainly interested in voice communication.
With a 3G850 net + a 3G2100 net they can easily cover major parts of Thailand, and their customers would be able to choose from a big assortment of multi band phones and use them where ever they go.
How many mobile phones are there that can do CDMA and GSM?

Tuesday, 10 June 2008
CAT gives nod to DTAC, True for 3G development

Thai newspaper The Nation writes that state owned CAT Telecom has given its approval to privately-run cellcos DTAC and True Move to begin developing 3G mobile services in the 800MHz frequency band. Both mobile companies currently offer GSM services under Build-Transfer-Operate (BTO) contracts with CAT, which says it will now ask for permission from the National Telecommunications Commission (NTC) to adjust the usage of the 800MHz band by DTAC (from a legacy analogue network) and its own ‘CAT CDMA’ CDMA2000 1x mobile service in order to free up a 5MHz block for True Move. In exchange for CAT's approval of W-CDMA/HSPA services in the 800MHz band, the state telco is demanding that both cellular operators must co-brand with CAT – e.g. CAT-DTAC or CAT-True – whilst reverting to ‘mainly’ using CAT’s international voice gateway instead of their own facilities. Thailand’s largest cellco by subscribers Advanced Info Service (AIS), a BTO concessionary of CAT’s sister telco TOT, launched limited W-CDMA services using its existing 900MHz spectrum last month. It is hoped that the NTC will issue 2GHz UMTS concessions outside of the BTO licence framework by the end of this year, paving the way for full-blown commercial 3G/3.5G networks to be rolled out.

I think rumors of CDMA's death have been exaggerated.

Unless CAT is losing tons of money of keeping the service alive, it will stay alive. And I don't see how they'd be losing any money on it. Given that the service has almost no problems my assumption would be that ongoing customer service costs are very low. And each subscriber puts BHT 800 into CATs pocket every month.

Then there is the issue that in the above "CAT is abandoning CDMA"-article most people seem to only read the headline. And the headline is misleading - it should read: "CAT is abandoning CDMA in favor of a new, faster standard".

They won't turn off CDMA overnight. They'll replace CDMA with HSPA or HSUPA or another more modern acronym, but they'll still be providing mobile internet service, or let their concessionaires do so. In a real country it would be the latter just because of the very obvious conflicts of interest if CAT offers these but TIT so we'll see.

What's going to happen is that we get faster, better 3G mobile internet. And until then we have CAT CDMA.

Of course CAT and the other involved parties pretty much change their tune about what's going to happen every other week. AIS and DTAC made big noises about introducing 3G only to abandon that idea for the near future. Politicians have said they'll remove the regulatory blockade that prevents operators from offering 3G but nothing has happened. Personally I am happy to watch that all from the sidelines, CDMA keeps on truckin'...