The Japanese...and how they got that way.

[Ronin]

A better response would have been to have addressed the issue, with support, and not bring up a lame arse A level as an attempt "at authority".

That was never my intention, although that's your interpretation. Either way Neemo got on his high-horse with an arrogant tone from the beginning as a good many others here do. Doubtless he would respond the way he already has done with a multi-pronged dialogue. There is too often the attitude 'but I am superior and you are just a no nothing idiot' which is frequently aimed, not only at me but at the locals of the countries where many expats are resident. A few of the 'wonder boys' should have a good look in the mirror.

[robuzo]

This is a the travel forum after all, not really the place for a pissing contest about who speaks Japanese the best. I agree, Neemo did make some silly comments about the Japanese being rude, etc., (the OP was pretty dumb, too, never expected the thread to go this far) but he may have had some very bad experiences there. Nearly every foreigner who tries living in Japan does, eventually, and most long-term expats have had at least one extended period of neurosis. Come to think of it, if we are generalizing about the Japanese I would say that they are collectively the world's most neurotic nation. In addition, they may even have more eccentrics per capita than Britain, which is saying something, and overall it's a trait that can be rather endearing.

As to the language, potential visitors may find it heartening that it is a very easy language in which to become functional quickly at a survival level, unlike other "hard" languages in which one has to deal with obstacles such as tones (like Thai) or complex grammar (Russian). Conversely, it is an incredibly difficult language in which to become truly proficient, and unless one has a good practical reason for doing so- I would say, a professional reason- there really is no reason to try. The vast majority of my long-term expat friends in Japan, including those with families, can converse well but would struggle to read a newspaper or a novel. Even Japanese traveling domestically will struggle to read place names (and then there are the dialects, which in several cases seem to be entirely different languages- Kagoshima dialect, for example, is much less like NHK Japanese than, say, Ukrainian is like Russian). When the historian George Sansom said of the Japanese writing system, "There is no doubt that it provides for some a fascinating field of study, but as a practical instrument it is surely without inferiors" he was exactly correct. It simply makes no sense, even less sense than English spelling.

The secret to enjoying Japan might be to keep it superficial- accept the tatemae and don't worry too much about the honne Honne and tatemae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . To paraphrase the expression Kyril Bonfiglioli used in reference to himself, Japan is loved by all who know her slightly. Or as I have put it in the past, Japan is easy to respect, not so easy to love. Enjoy her at arm's length, like a scuba diver does a coral reef.

Having said that, I'm off for Toontown (Tokyo) this week, and can't wait. As ever I'll be free-diving at depth in what Arthur Koestler described as "a warm bath containing an electric eel."

[Ronin]

This is a the travel forum after all, not really the place for a pissing contest about who speaks Japanese the best. I agree, Neemo did make some silly comments about the Japanese being rude, etc., (the OP was pretty dumb, too, never expected the thread to go this far) but he may have had some very bad experiences there. Nearly every foreigner who tries living in Japan does, eventually, and most long-term expats have had at least one extended period of neurosis. Come to think of it, if we are generalizing about the Japanese I would say that they are collectively the world's most neurotic nation. In addition, they may even have more eccentrics per capita than Britain, which is saying something, and overall it's a trait that can be rather endearing.

As to the language, potential visitors may find it heartening that it is a very easy language in which to become functional quickly at a survival level, unlike other "hard" languages in which one has to deal with obstacles such as tones (like Thai) or complex grammar (Russian). Conversely, it is an incredibly difficult language in which to become truly proficient, and unless one has a good practical reason for doing so- I would say, a professional reason- there really is no reason to try. The vast majority of my long-term expat friends in Japan, including those with families, can converse well but would struggle to read a newspaper or a novel. Even Japanese traveling domestically will struggle to read place names (and then there are the dialects, which in several cases seem to be entirely different languages- Kagoshima dialect, for example, is much less like NHK Japanese than, say, Ukrainian is like Russian). When the historian George Sansom said of the Japanese writing system, "There is no doubt that it provides for some a fascinating field of study, but as a practical instrument it is surely without inferiors" he was exactly correct. It simply makes no sense, even less sense than English spelling.

The secret to enjoying Japan might be to keep it superficial- accept the tatemae and don't worry too much about the honne Honne and tatemae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . To paraphrase the expression Kyril Bonfiglioli used in reference to himself, Japan is loved by all who know her slightly. Or as I have put it in the past, Japan is easy to respect, not so easy to love. Enjoy her at arm's length, like a scuba diver does a coral reef.

Having said that, I'm off for Toontown (Tokyo) this week, and can't wait. As ever I'll be free-diving at depth in what Arthur Koestler described as "a warm bath containing an electric eel."

Excellent. No surprise that foreigners have bad experience living in Japan, few people speak their language or really understand their society which can be difficult to accept. As a visitor I found it their consistency in bars, restaurants and shops tiring although I never encountered any rudeness (but then people are always nice to tourist).

Japanese is easy enough to learn at basic level but that is true of nearly any language. Reading newspapers is always difficult in a foreign language due to the large number of subjects covered along with abbreviations, slang, terminology and constant updating of news and maybe the language itself. Japanese novels to me are out of this world. A good many expressions contained within make no sense in English and it must either an enormous effort, considerable assistance or a great in-depth knowledge of the culture.

Perhaps the best answer to the OP is something that was said to me by a Japanese girl years ago (ironically somebody I didn't like). Try studying history 'why people do what they do.' I think there is some truth in that.