Chiang mai ladies

[Dan]

Do you consider having a pool a necessity?

I consider having at least a housekeeper and gardener (and pool cleaner if you have a pool) as necessities in a home where both householders work (as my wife and I do) if they can afford it

So it's a necessity if they can afford it but not if they can't? That means it's not a necessity.

[Bettyboo]

I'm from New York

Say no more...

most middle-class people that own their own homes have at least a gardening service that comes a couple times per week, and many have housekeepers in a day or two as well.

See, you're a stereotypical Yank idiot, forcing your cultural norms upon everyone else - if it's not done as it is back home then it ain't right; God Bless America...

You may not have noticed, but we're in Thailand now... The average person does not have a gardener a couple of times a week and they do not have housekeepers. To cut your own grass and to clean your own house and to not have a pool or pool cleaner is not frugal.

Do you agree or disagree with the text I've bolded?

[FailSafe]

You've started to introduce this phrase now

Actually I mentioned it before you entered the thread, but don't let the facts stop you from posting your crap.

but to say that Robbo has a frugal lifestyle because he says he lives comfortably on 30k per month is both arrogant and insulting.

Re-read some of your posts on this thread if you want to see the definition of 'arrogant', prick.

[FailSafe]

You may not have noticed, but we're in Thailand now... The average person does not have a gardener a couple of times a week and they do not have housekeepers. To cut your own grass and to clean your own house and to not have a pool or pool cleaner is not frugal. Do you agree or disagree with the text I've bolded?

I disagree.

Thanks for the tip as to where I am now- I was wondering.

[FailSafe]

So it's a necessity if they can afford it but not if they can't? That means it's not a necessity.

You can cut down the definition of 'necessity' pretty finely if you want- I consider having an air-conditioner a 'necessity' as I couldn't live in LOS without one- others will certainly feel differently- you can live in a tiny hovel in a state of disrepair rather than a properly maintained home, but I would still call living somewhere decent a 'necessity'. If you want to break it down to the bare minimum to support life I guess you can.

I see the point you're making, but I don't agree with you.

[Bettyboo]

You're doing an excellent job of not answering any questions...

"30k to live in Thailand is frugal" and "having a pool cleaner, gardener and house maid are basic expenses"

have changed to

"if you want to live a Western lifestyle in Thailand" and "in middle class New York Neighbourhoods where people own their own homes, it is normal to have a gardener and cleaner"

You're doing more backtracking than Obama; fine effort...

[FailSafe]

See, you're a stereotypical Yank idiot, forcing your cultural norms upon everyone else - if it's not done as it is back home then it ain't right; God Bless America...

Christ, BB- pull the stick out of your ass already.

[Bettyboo]

You may not have noticed, but we're in Thailand now... The average person does not have a gardener a couple of times a week and they do not have housekeepers. To cut your own grass and to clean your own house and to not have a pool or pool cleaner is not frugal. Do you agree or disagree with the text I've bolded?

I disagree.

Thanks for the tip as to where I am now- I was wondering.

Just for the record, you disagree that:

"In Thailand, the average person does not have a gardener a couple of times a week and they do not have housekeepers. To cut your own grass and to clean your own house and to not have a pool or pool cleaner is not frugal."

You disagree with that paragraph, correct?

[Davis Knowlton]

Not certain the amount is really key here. As long as you live a life with which you are satisfied, and live within your means, good on ya. Part of the reason I live in Asia (and not a major part) is that I can live much better than I could in the US. I have an excellent pension plan, which certainly puts me in a high income category here. My wife and I also work, and our income from work, pension, and investments allows us to live well. That would not be the case in the US. I own a 3 year old house, a 12 year old Honda CRV, and a 12 year old motorcycle (all in great condition). I also have two kids in school and two who are college graduates and working, but who still need a hand now and then. Maybe 30K is ample for some folks; wouldn't work for me, but I'm glad it does for them. I've been poor in my life, and didn't much care for it. I am certainly not wealthy now, but am very happy to be living life comfortably, and not worrying about how I'm going to pay the bills.

[FailSafe]

You're doing an excellent job of not answering any questions...

Says the guy who ignores any salient points I've made and is off on some sort of drunken anti-American rant.

"if you want to live a Western lifestyle in Thailand" and "in middle class New York Neighbourhoods where people own their own homes, it is normal to have a gardener and cleaner"

Again, Jackass, you asked where I was from and I answered you (with a bit of an anecdote), and you're still upset- there's no pleasing you today, BB.

[Dan]

I see the point you're making.

No, I don't think you do. Being a necessity is not dependent on whether you can afford it. That's just not what the word means; you're confusing desirability with necessity. Of course, it's not just Thais who worry about lose of face so I don't expect a public change of heart. You also seem to have some very weird ideas about the level of material wealth enjoyed by those around you. I recommend getting out of your estate and meeting some of these millions of people who you think employ gardeners and maids and pool cleaners.

[notanameleft]

เฒ่าหัวงู [ เท่า หัว งู ]

tâo hŭa ngoo






[ Noun ]

• dirty old man

[FailSafe]

You disagree with that paragraph, correct?

I disagree with the sense of the question- it's unfair, kind of like, 'Have you stopped beating your wife yet?'

I would say that most expats who are living a Western lifestyle (yup- there's that expression again) in Thailand have some sort of domestic help (a housekeeper at a minimum), and that having it (often, but not always) is a matter of necessity rather than frugality.

[FailSafe]

Of course, it's not just Thais who worry about lose of face so I don't expect a public change of heart.

Easy there, Dan- I respect your earlier argument, but don't play 'I've won the argument and you just won't admit it' please- I feel differently than you, and you don't get to be right based just on your say so.

I recommend getting out of your estate and meeting some of these millions of people who you think employ gardeners and maids and pool cleaners.

Most Westerners (and many Thais) that I know do indeed employ maids/gardeners- I can't speak for 'millions' as I don't know 'millions'.

[Bettyboo]

^ 'that I know', 'but I don't know millions'... blah blah blah.

Neither the majority (or a significant minority) of either Westerners in Thailand or Thais, employ gardeners, house maids and pool cleaners as a matter of 'necessity'...

^^ yes, it's unfair to prove you wrong with your own words...

Even though you are desperately moving around words and adding phrases, even then, your sentence above is both factually wrong and arrogant.

It is a problem with Americans, they grow up in a very insular inward looking society and then have a massive problem relating to others in a way that does not force their own culture upon others...

[FailSafe]

It is a problem with Americans, they grow up in a very insular inward looking society and then have a massive problem relating to others in a way that does not force their own culture upon others...

Come on, BB- now you're just getting boring.

[Dan]

I feel differently than you, and you don't get to be right based just on your say so.

Either you know what 'necessity' means or you don't. On the evidence of this thread - and your own use of the word - you don't. What you feel is beside the point.

[Bettyboo]

If you analysed your argument, you'd see that much of it boils down to socio-cultural issues. The Biritish had them during the 'empire' and the Yanks have them now... The Romans and Mongolians probably had the same issues at their height of power.

& you're right, it is boring...

[Dan]

^ It's got nothing to do with being American. There are - proportionately - at least as many British aresholes in Thailand as there are American.

[Bettyboo]

^ more than likely, and I like to wind up the Northerns and Scouse scum too...

But, I disagree with you insomuchas Americans do have traits (not all, of course) and they do have a very insular inwardlooking society (certainly compared to European countries, even though these are far from perfect too) and this does cause issues, many issues, where Americans are always trying to force their cultural norm upon others.

[Dan]

Look at the threads here - or (shudder) on Thaivisa - about Thais. I see a lot more twatish comments from British posters than from American ones. The Americans who travel to Thailand tend, on average, to be far better than the Brits I meet here, who are to a large extent uneducated, stupid, bigots who have no idea how to deal with a foreign culture. You certainly meet Americans like that but not in anything like the same numbers.

[Davis Knowlton]

But, I disagree with you insomuchas Americans do have traits (not all, of course) and they do have a very insular inwardlooking society (certainly compared to European countries, even though these are far from perfect too) and this does cause issues, many issues, where Americans are always trying to force their cultural norm upon others.

America is a great big place. Relatively few Americans ever venture outside of its borders, thus American cultural norms are all they know. Unlike Europeans, who live in close proximity to other nationalities, and are thus forced to learn something of other cultures out of necessity. I would not argue the point that Americans tend to impose their cultural norms on others, however, on a worldwide arrogance scale, there are many citizens of other countries whom I believe would outrank Americans. Not in ignorance, perhaps, but certainly in jingoistic arrogance.

[FailSafe]

Either you know what 'necessity' means or you don't. On the evidence of this thread - and your own use of the word - you don't.

I do know what a 'necessity' is- it's something that's absolutely essential- as I said earlier, you can cut that pretty thin- 'a place to live' is a necessity, but is anything above the absolute minimum necessary to sustain your existence a 'luxury'? In the strictest sense, yes, it would be, but I would still call a decent place to live a 'necessity' even if it was above that standard.

[Bettyboo]

^ Yes and no.

I fuk around on the board often and that's part of British culture, as it is Australian and Kiwi culture, much more so than American culture which is more serious, generally speaking, on these boards, and regarding meeting people generally; very different pragmatics going on.

As far as the average person you meet in Thailand goes, Americans are often more impressionable, it's their culture, they're polite and pleasant to meet (that's not part of British culture), but that's quite superficial, imo.

I'm not talking about these areas. I'm talking about oppressive cultural imperialism (which the British were well known for, but have somewhat 'mellowed'), and Americans are a problem - it's the American way or it's wrong. You see it on the housing threads where the Americans are "Well we don't do it like that in the US of A, so I won't be doing it here, I want US quality, US wiring, US workmanship", etc, whereas most other posters (British, Australian, Kiwi, etc) accept that we're in Thailand and it is gonna most likely be done the Thai way...

We could increase the scope to include the US media, invasions, etc, the Americans are a bloody nightmare... Now, Chiangmai women, very nice they are.

[FailSafe]

you're right, it is boring...

No, BB, I said you're boring- there's a difference.

I've lived outside America's borders for nearly twenty years- while I still certainly have an American-biased perspective, I think I do have a somewhat bigger outlook on the world than you seem to give me credit for.