England - Prostitute users face clampdown

**dirtydog** · 20-11-2008, 12:34 AM

Prostitute users face clampdown

Jacqui Smith says she is concerned about vulnerable women

Paying for sex with prostitutes who are controlled by pimps is set to become a criminal offence in England and Wales, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said.

Anyone who knowingly pays illegally trafficked women for sex could face rape charges, while kerb crawlers could face prosecution for a first offence.

There will also be more "naming and shaming" of kerb crawlers and new police powers to close brothels.

Buying or selling sex is legal but soliciting and pimping are not.

The changes bring the law in England and Wales more into line with Scotland, where anyone looking to pick up a prostitute faces a fine of up to £1,000.

Ms Smith said the government had considered banning paying for sex altogether but had ruled this out as there was no public support for such a move.

Instead, she said the government's efforts would be focused on reducing demand for trafficked women, who were "effectively held as slaves", and there would be a marketing campaign aimed at men who used prostitutes.

We want to send a clear message to force men to think twice before sex

Home Office

Britain's prostitution laws
Women's views on the plans

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "My proposal is that men should think twice about paying for sex. The reason they should do that is actually the majority of women don't want to be involved in prostitution."
She added: "Trafficked women don't have a choice, men do."

Ms Smith said up to 70% of prostitutes were controlled by pimps or had been trafficked into the country and the government was working closely with the police on plans to enforce the new laws.

But Nikki Adams, of the English Collective of Prostitutes, said the government had "made up" the number of women being trafficked into the UK and most prostitution was "consenting sex".

Brothel powers

Under the plan, the Home Office is planning to criminalise paying for sex with a woman "controlled for another person's gain".

Those convicted would get a fine and a criminal record.

Pleading ignorance of the circumstances under which a prostitute is working will not count as a defence.

Under the plans, people who pay a prostitute for sex knowing they have been trafficked against their will could be charged with rape.

Ms Smith will promise that kerb-crawling will be punishable the first time a person is caught doing it, rather than just persistent offenders.

The Home Office said police would get powers to close brothels.

HAVE YOUR SAY

The only way to help prostitutes is to legalise the trade and have proper red light districts

Neil, Liverpool
Send us your comments

Currently they can only shut premises associated with prostitution if anti-social behaviour or when Class A drugs are involved. Critics of the government's proposals say they will simply drive customers elsewhere, rather than tackling the problem.

Separate proposals will soon be published to place lapdancing clubs under the same licensing arrangements as sex shops, rather than as pubs and bars as at present.

This would allow people living nearby more chance to raise objections.

For the Conservatives, shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve said: "The government's proposals will not protect the most vulnerable victims.
"Rather than creating new laws, the home secretary should focus on enforcing existing laws."

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said: "Help for the victims would be more convincing if the government hadn't slashed the budget for human trafficking investigations last week and shut down the leading unit.
"The proposal to close brothels runs the risk of driving already vulnerable women underground and into the hands of pimps and pushers."

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 made it illegal to buy sex from anyone aged under 18 and introduced penalties for trafficking adults and children for the purposes of sexual exploitation.

It is not illegal for someone aged over 18 to work as a prostitute in off-street premises but where there is more than one prostitute, the owner of the premises can be prosecuted for keeping a brothel.

Many of the activities associated with street prostitution, such as soliciting and kerb-crawling, are also illegal and it is against the law to advertise sexual services on cards in telephone boxes.

In December last year, Women's Minister Harriet Harman said paying for sex should be outlawed.

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Prostitute users face clampdown

Europes Weather Forecasts

watterinja · 20-11-2008, 12:52 AM

Now, if that ain't the witches buttocks...

Ging to have to hand it after this fellas...

**Texpat** · 20-11-2008, 01:12 AM

Prostitute users face clampdown

Isn't a clampdown what the guys are looking for?

I'm not sure they want to face the clampdown though.

**jizzybloke** · 20-11-2008, 01:15 AM

Only because they're losing out on a lot of tax money, they'll legalise it as soon as they can regulate and get money coming in from it!

**spiff** · 20-11-2008, 03:03 AM

I don't think the UK will legalise human trafficking and child prostitution, jizzy.

It needs to be countered, not regulated.

Edited

**spiff** · 20-11-2008, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Pleading ignorance of the circumstances under which a prostitute is working will not count as a defence.

Isn't it up to the prosecutor to prove that the accused 'knew' about the circumstances?

Innocent until proven guilty, or is 'New' Labour going to change this?

**toslti** · 20-11-2008, 04:08 AM

So.. there you are, walking along the street and minding your own business when a lady of the night says ''Fancy a good time darling??''

What do you do?? whip out £20 and say... where? or do you ask to see her latest income tax return so that you can make sure she is ''self employed?''

This from a Home Secretary who must have better things to do...

**spiff** · 20-11-2008, 04:46 AM

No, but I think you missed the problem areas being addressed:
underage prostitution and women 'controlled' in connection with trafficking. So far the law practice has concentrated on the supply side, but are the 'punters' not equally 'guilty'?

**jizzybloke** · 20-11-2008, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by spiff

I don't think the UK will legalise human trafficking and child prostitution, jizzy.

There is not a single reference to child prostitution in the OP where did that come from?

i may have made a sweeping statement but it was regarding prostitution and not trafficking, they don't go hand in hand.

**spiff** · 20-11-2008, 05:35 AM

Ok, I overreacted to your post.
But there is an area where prostitution and trafficking go hand-in-hand.
Not sure how common any of this is in the UK, and I can just imagine the moralist attempts to stigmatise prostitution itself by emphasising the unacceptable edges.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Under the plans, people who pay a prostitute for sex knowing they have been trafficked against their will could be charged with rape.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 made it illegal to buy sex from anyone aged under 18 and introduced penalties for trafficking adults and children for the purposes of sexual exploitation.

**Dalton** · 20-11-2008, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by jizzybloke

Only because they're losing out on a lot of tax money, they'll legalise it as soon as they can regulate and get money coming in from it!

In Denmark they pay tax, and if they get a boob-job they can deduct the cost in there taxes, because it's an improment for the business...

**keda** · 20-11-2008, 07:56 AM

Little to do with 'protecting' sex slaves from the exploiting male, though the rare conviction will no doubt be hailed as their contribution to the cause, more than justifying the harm to both prospective punters and, bottom line, masses of poor defenceless women the feminazis pretend to protect, who would rather they butt out so they can continue renting out their bodies as they have for centuries before anyone had even heard of New Labour.

If they do not get enough convictions to justify their stupidity, no problem at all, and they can pompously announce that their legislation is obviously working well, much like the guy that used to chop down trees around the North Pole for a living.

They add 'knowingly' to the trafficked bit, cleverly dealing with the principle that ignorance of the law is no defence. This sounds fair at face value, if you trust this lot, which I do not, so excuse the cynicism, because it becomes more difficult for the CPS to prove foreknowledge that the woman is trafficked or pimped, esp once they define those terms without the loopholes that any decent lawyer could drive through...which they will, though legal pimps will still be driving through a year, five years from now.

Seems from here that they're making a noise for political gain, which is no big deal because that's what politicians are about. But do they really want to face streams of cumbersome appeals, human rights and other expensive and time consuming issues, each making them look dumber than before, and god forbid might even lose them votes? Nope, more likely they want to deter honest citizens from going about this part of their lawful business, with the deterrent not of a fine but the surrounding publicity.

It also allows them to employ yet another batch of bureauprats to monitor, regulate and enforce, thereby expanding their 'sphere of influence'. There are dangerous people running loose in the corridors of power.

Btw, referenced to the relevant posts in the pedo thread, as long as prostitution is illegal in the UK, how long before the tree huggers make it an offence to travel abroad for sex with trafficked women, and then women?

**kingwilly** · 20-11-2008, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by keda

Little to do with 'protecting' sex slaves from the exploiting male, though the rare conviction will no doubt be hailed as their contribution to the cause, more than justifying the harm to both prospective punters and, bottom line, masses of poor defenceless women the feminazis pretend to protect, who would rather they butt out so they can continue renting out their bodies as they have for centuries before anyone had even heard of New Labour.

If they do not get enough convictions to justify their stupidity, no problem at all, and they can pompously announce that their legislation is obviously working well, much like the guy that used to chop down trees around the North Pole for a living.

They add 'knowingly' to the trafficked bit, cleverly dealing with the principle that ignorance of the law is no defence. This sounds fair at face value, if you trust this lot, which I do not, so excuse the cynicism, because it becomes more difficult for the CPS to prove foreknowledge that the woman is trafficked or pimped, esp once they define those terms without the loopholes that any decent lawyer could drive through...which they will, though legal pimps will still be driving through a year, five years from now.

Seems from here that they're making a noise for political gain, which is no big deal because that's what politicians are about. But do they really want to face streams of cumbersome appeals, human rights and other expensive and time consuming issues, each making them look dumber than before, and god forbid might even lose them votes? Nope, more likely they want to deter honest citizens from going about this part of their lawful business, with the deterrent not of a fine but the surrounding publicity.

It also allows them to employ yet another batch of bureauprats to monitor, regulate and enforce, thereby expanding their 'sphere of influence'. There are dangerous people running loose in the corridors of power.

Btw, referenced to the relevant posts in the pedo thread, as long as prostitution is illegal in the UK, how long before the tree huggers make it an offence to travel abroad for sex with trafficked women, and then women?

yup. well said.

**baldrick** · 20-11-2008, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by dirtydog

"My proposal is that men should think twice about paying for sex

no more marriages in the UK ?

**Chairman Mao** · 20-11-2008, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Anyone who knowingly pays illegally trafficked women for sex could face rape charges

So the Johns know when a women is illegally trafficked...

Shouldn't the police be reprimanded for having illegally trafficked women selling themselves on their beat? Bet that would result in a few more trafficers being caught, and women being saved. Or is it only Johns can locate them.

**Gaudente** · 20-11-2008, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by baldrick

Originally Posted by dirtydog

"My proposal is that men should think twice about paying for sex

no more marriages in the UK ?

I wanted to give you a green but the system prevents me because I gave you a red yesterday

I guess the system should consider red and green separately...just a tip for the admin

**Gaudente** · 20-11-2008, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by keda

Btw, referenced to the relevant posts in the pedo thread, as long as prostitution is illegal in the UK, how long before the tree huggers make it an offence to travel abroad for sex with trafficked women, and then women?

That' feminazis medium term target: once extra marriage/relationship sexuality becomes impossible then all men will be at their wives/mistresses mercy and their slavery be complete.They will have to work like dogs to buy diamond rings for each blow job they will still dare to ask.

**andyirish57** · 20-11-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by watterinja

Now, if that ain't the witches buttocks...

Ging to have to hand it after this fellas...

That woman is a total fool how the hell did she get a cabinet position.
She has fcuked up many times, all she has to do is open her mouth and you know you are in for a load of Bull.

**spiff** · 20-11-2008, 05:22 PM

New Labour is fascist.

Jaqui Smith:
"As the UK Home Secretary, she has been noted for advocating strongly authoritarian policies. Examples are a law to detain crime suspects for several months without charging them for any crime, a central database that logs all mobile phone and email/internet traffic in the UK, and restrictions to the freedom of photography. She justified these policies as necessary "anti-terror" laws."

**dirtydog** · 20-11-2008, 05:45 PM

Dirty disgusting Brits, having sex with paid for white whores, we can only hope that the UK government can put a stop to this disgusting situation, wonder how Soi Yodsak is today, may nip down there later.

**keda** · 20-11-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by spiff

Ok, I overreacted to your post.
But there is an area where prostitution and trafficking go hand-in-hand.
Not sure how common any of this is in the UK, and I can just imagine the moralist attempts to stigmatise prostitution itself by emphasising the unacceptable edges.

Isn't that the way it's done? Drink, drugs, prostitution, pornography, gambling and other so-called social ills, always have had those sharp edges and thuggish elements exploited by ambitious politicians for their own ends. A softer approach in some of those areas have led to greater abuse and often, but overall it works better because adults seeking their recreation will find it, but they do not want to be forced into the side street.

It is exploitation of women that seems to be emphasised and constantly targeted, at a guess more by women than by men, or men prodded by women, and in the past decade or so invariably via the sharp edge of trafficking, with human rights, risk of disease, violence and other bits added for flavour. Underage is an entirely other matter, but a 12- or 15-yr-old is easier to identify than a trafficked adult, many of whom I would guess are cheated rather than trafficked against their will.

Too much money to be made, so sadly trafficking as properly defined isn't going to be stopped and even with the occasional coup probably not reduced either, but desperate measures like the latest 'clampdown' will always be justified by those who want or need to be seen to be trying to do something about it.

**Thormaturge** · 20-11-2008, 09:39 PM

I don't see a problem with this at all.

Any man who wishes to visit a prostitute simply has to get her to sign a disclaimer stating she is not controlled by a pimp and that she is not a victim of trafficking. Get a couple of nearby witnesses, maybe a passing judge or MP to witness the document, knowing the UK.

**spiff** · 20-11-2008, 09:44 PM

Something's gone wrong, I agree entirely with keda.

**Gaudente** · 20-11-2008, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by spiff

Something's gone wrong, I agree entirely with keda.

me too, meaning the horrible evidence I'm agreeing also with you. Should I run to the nearest hospital for an urgent lobotomy ?

**Gerbil** · 20-11-2008, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Gaudente

Should I run to the nearest hospital for an urgent lobotomy ?

Yes, you should.

Thread: England - Prostitute users face clampdown

Thread Tools

Display

England - Prostitute users face clampdown

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions