US Troops to Arrive in Europe in January to Reassure Allies

**sabang** · 18-12-2016, 08:27 PM

Nato has been thoroughly prostituted, and subverted. To wit-

The organization constitutes a system of collective defence whereby its member states agree to mutual defence in response to an attack by any external party.

... Article 5 of the North Atlantic treaty, requiring member states to come to the aid of any member state subject to an armed attack, was invoked for the first and only time after the September 11 attacks,

... The organization has operated a range of additional roles since then, including sending trainers to Iraq, assisting in counter-piracy operations[7] and in 2011 enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya in accordance with U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO

Invoking Article 5 for these events is bullshit. 911, in particular, was a hideous atrocity- but it was not carried out by another State against a Nato member State- it was carried out by a terrorist organisation. It was a Terrorist atrocity, not an invasion. So the Article does not apply. This is not to say a fellow member state of Nato cannot assist the USA in a joint military action of course- but it does Not apply under Article 5 (or the somewhat weaker Article 4) of the Nato treaty. That is a bilateral agreement between States, not a Nato mandate.

Nato has become an extension of hawkish US foreign policy- not surprising really, because the US pays for and arms the lions share of it. It has gone way past it's original mandate (simply put, a defence club against Russia & the Eastern bloc), and the legality of it's actions are dubious at best. Currently it is being used as a tool to taunt and provoke the Russian Bear- I fail to see the benefit to Europe, that houses most of it's military hardware, and relies on Russia for it's energy supplies, in this.

I don't believe Nato should be disbanded- but I do believe it should have it's horns pulled in. It is a tool of our joint foreign policy, not the determinant of it.

**chassamui** · 18-12-2016, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

It is a tool of our joint foreign policy

That's all that really needed to be said. The resr is just semantics. You could equally claim that the US provoked the Arab spring, thereby destabilising N Africa.
While they continue to fund Nato, they will continue to be its main beneficiary. Putting boots on the ground in eastern Europe keeps Russia front an centre. Just where the US wants them.

**Norton** · 19-12-2016, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

not if we ask the Russians to join us in our military effort

Been there done that. Worked out well.

**Hugh Cow** · 19-12-2016, 09:26 AM

The USA needs EU at least as much as EU needs the states if not more. They will need to protect their global assets in Europe. Their trade and influence in Asia is coming under threat from an increasingly influential and expansionist China.
The USA cannot allow the same to happen to Europe, as South America is becoming more and more an economic basket case. Argentina has defaulted Brazil is in trouble Venezuela is a basket case.
The US economy really kicked into gear from WW1 when they sold huge amounts of arms to France and Britain. They still have a huge war/defence industry. China and Russia now are making more sophisticated arms and will be pushing into the US traditional markets. The US cannot afford to fall behind in the arms market they currently have about 50% of the global arms market and falling. U.S. Arms Sales Spiked in 2014.
There in lies the problem. Which ever side of the fence you sit on, the American arms industry needs an unstable world to survive.

**OhOh** · 19-12-2016, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by wasabi

Just thinking about the two main wars America actually won, WW one and two,

Sure of your facts?.

Originally Posted by chassamui

It's a NATO deployment

It appears to be two separate things. An Ameristani intervention in some European countries along with a NATO intervention.

Originally Posted by misskit

“I'm confident in the very powerful signal, the message it will send [that] the United States, along with the rest of NATO, is committed to deterrence,” Hodges said. He said the armored brigade has already moved out of its Colorado base and is loading on ships. “I'm excited about what my country is doing and I'm excited about continuing to work with our ally, Poland,” Hodges said. In a separate decision, the members of NATO at a July summit in Warsaw approved the deployment of four multinational battalions to Poland and the Baltic states to deter Russia.

**OhOh** · 19-12-2016, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Norton

they are so lazy to spend their wealth on their own security.

They just buy Ameristani bonds to prop up the AM$, much military equipment, .......

Originally Posted by chassamui

Because that is where the current threat lies.

Threat of what, a country able to defend itself, alone if necessary. Thank goodness the leader of that "threatening" has publicly saying the country has no designs on a land grab. The country has enough land, resources, water, food ...... Not like some others.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

not if we ask the Russians to join us in our military effort

That would put NA in an outside position, not something an unexceptional country could swallow, easily.

Originally Posted by chassamui

You don't understand how global defence alliances work

There are no global defense alliances, just global military alliances.

**OhOh** · 19-12-2016, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Norton

Worked out well.

How do you enjoy living in Europe, saved from Germany by Russian lives.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

South America is becoming more and more an economic basket case

Due to what, Ameristani behavior by any chance?

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

American arms industry needs an unstable world to survive.

Ameristan taxpayers, voters and politicians provide one every day of their lives

**chassamui** · 19-12-2016, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

It appears to be two separate things. An Ameristani intervention in some European countries along with a NATO intervention.

Incorrect. The deployment may well be led by the US in terms of numbers and funding, but it is under a Nato flag.

Originally Posted by OhOh

There are no global defense alliances, just global military alliances.

Semantics. Argue with butters. He ha an excuse as Enlish is not his first language.

Since their departure from the Warsaw pact, the Baltic states have little in the way of defence capabilities. It is the duty of their new partners to protect them from acquisitive neighbours.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Thank goodness the leader of that "threatening" has publicly saying the country has no designs on a land grab.

Did he not make similar utterances before annexing the Crimea?

**OhOh** · 19-12-2016, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by chassamui

before annexing the Crimea

The words only have a certain shelf life don't they until they become outed. First is was invaded, then annexed. They hit the headlines, sheeple eat it up , they walk the truth backwards but the sheeple are happily grazing elsewhere by now.

All the time the Crimean's and the Russians have stuck with the same story.

1. A foreign sponsored illegal coup,
2. Illegal terrorists running amuck killing and slaughtering all who opposed, snipers on the rooftops, farms and livestock set ablaze in the country,
3. A legally held referendum,
4. A legally presented request to return to the Russian Federation.
5. The Russian Parliament passed a law in acceptance.

This fake news has been going on for years.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Semantics.

Fake words, Liars, murderers, rapists, baby killers, child abusers. Pick your word that is the most suitable or the one which most fits your bias.

Originally Posted by chassamui

It is the duty of their new partners

By painting a huge bulls eye in the centre of their "Partner's" country. That's not protection that's exploiting the weak by a bully.

**chassamui** · 19-12-2016, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

By painting a huge bulls eye in the centre of their "Partner's" country. That's not protection that's exploitation.

Call it what you want. but the Baltic states and Poland, have asked, requested, insisted that allies, friends, Nato move troops onto their soil to deter any other countries from invading annexing or otherwise transgressing their borders.

**OhOh** · 19-12-2016, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by chassamui

the Baltic states and Poland

I wonder who provided them with the intelligence capability, do they have their own spy satellites, analysts or was it NATO?

I wonder who's supply the MSM stories tipping the population into war mode.

Did they hold elections to determine the democratic will of the electorate? Did the winning party in the countries last elections highlight that they would be gearing up for a war against a Russia.

**Norton** · 19-12-2016, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

How do you enjoy living in Europe

Never have never will.

Originally Posted by OhOh

saved from Germany by Russian lives.

And a fine job they did saving all those countries and setting up a paradise for the proletariat. Even built some damn nice walls to keep evil capitalist folks out of paradise. No wait. That's not right. I stand corrected.

**Mrgolofkin** · 19-12-2016, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

Nato has been thoroughly prostituted, and subverted.

Yup, Nato is simply an arm of the US military. A global organistion in name only.

**chassamui** · 19-12-2016, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mrgolofkin

A global organistion

Regional.

**chassamui** · 19-12-2016, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

I wonder who provided them with the intelligence capability, do they have their own spy satellites, analysts or was it NATO?

I wonder who's supply the MSM stories tipping the population into war mode.

Did they hold elections to determine the democratic will of the electorate? Did the winning party in the countries last elections highlight that they would be gearing up for a war against a Russia.

.... and breathe

**Mrgolofkin** · 19-12-2016, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by Mrgolofkin

A global organistion

Regional.

You know what I mean Chas.

**chassamui** · 19-12-2016, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Mrgolofkin

You know what I mean Chas.

I know the US could only use the Nato umbrella if a Nato member state was threatened. The clue is in the name.

**Mrgolofkin** · 19-12-2016, 07:29 PM

Certainly is.
North American Treaty Alliance

**chassamui** · 19-12-2016, 07:44 PM

As I said before, they pay the bills, they pick the fights.

**OhOh** · 21-12-2016, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by chassamui

Did he not make similar utterances before annexing the Crimea?

I'm not sure, you are suggesting it. Do yo have any links to such utterances?

Originally Posted by chassamui

I know the US could only use the Nato umbrella if a Nato member state was threatened. The clue is in the name

Wrong.

Article 5 states "an armed attack", ...."in Europe or North America" and only in the "North Atlantic area".

No mention of the word threat, verbal or cyber attack. I presume Turkey is considered european enough for NATO but not for EU membership.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/of...ectedLocale=en
Article 5

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

**chassamui** · 21-12-2016, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Nothing about deterrence, or pre positioning of defence forces, or joint exercises?
Academic anyway. All guest forces are there at the invitation of the host nation. The RAF have been enforcing a no fly zone there for months already.

**OhOh** · 21-12-2016, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by chassamui

The RAF have been enforcing a no fly zone there for months already.

When you say "there", where do you mean?

**chassamui** · 22-12-2016, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

When you say "there", where do you mean?

Stop pretending to be stupid just because you've lost the plot. Or you could connect to any one of my last 10 posts on this thread.
Or you could stop being lazy and google it.
Warning! This post may contain nuts.

**Hugh Cow** · 22-12-2016, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

The words only have a certain shelf life don't they until they become outed. First is was invaded, then annexed. They hit the headlines, sheeple eat it up , they walk the truth backwards but the sheeple are happily grazing elsewhere by now.

All the time the Crimean's and the Russians have stuck with the same story.

1. A foreign sponsored illegal coup,
2. Illegal terrorists running amuck killing and slaughtering all who opposed, snipers on the rooftops, farms and livestock set ablaze in the country,
3. A legally held referendum,
4. A legally presented request to return to the Russian Federation.
5. The Russian Parliament passed a law in acceptance.

This fake news has been going on for years.

Quote:

Truth is in the ear of the beholder

**OhOh** · 22-12-2016, 03:40 PM

.

Originally Posted by chassamui

any one of my last 10 posts on this thread

Your post have been full of holes which have been highlighted. Or are you just trying to make the rotting compost heap higher with your additional bullshit?

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