Falling off the wagon

**Scooter** · 12-03-2007, 10:22 PM

With all the drugs avalible around the world why the hell do people drink?
Far nicer stuff around.

**stroller** · 12-03-2007, 10:42 PM

Emm, yes, but if you make a habit of it, it will likely end up being a similar problem.

Switching addictions is not a solution.

Originally Posted by CMN

I need a new bad habit.
Anyone got any decent designer drugs?

That probably was a joke, but anyway, deal with the one, don't raise other dragons you'll have to fight later.

**mad_dog** · 12-03-2007, 10:43 PM

Middle age isn't a bad time to start dabbling in real drugs. Get a few Es down your neck and get down to the islands and you'll look down on beer as the smelly farty old mans drug that it is.

**ChiangMai noon** · 12-03-2007, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Middle age isn't a bad time to start dabbling in real drugs. Get a few Es down your neck and get down to the islands and you'll look down on beer as the smelly farty old mans drug that it is.

bloody hell Maddie, how old do you think I am.
Problem with e's over here is that they are pricey and unreliable, I have found out at some cost.

**RandomChances** · 12-03-2007, 10:52 PM

I've previously give serious consideration as to wether I was an alcholic and there time's that I think I've been pretty close.
I actually drink less here than I used to back in the UK. I tend to drink when I can and know it wont really affect things like work ect. I can go for weeks at a time without drinking and it does'nt bother me, when I do drink I tend to drink a lot, it's a bit like an on or off switch, not much middle ground.

**Scooter** · 12-03-2007, 11:01 PM

^ There you go CMN,less work means you might not want so much beer.

I used to get smashed most nights when I was working.

**mad_dog** · 12-03-2007, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Middle age isn't a bad time to start dabbling in real drugs. Get a few Es down your neck and get down to the islands and you'll look down on beer as the smelly farty old mans drug that it is.

bloody hell Maddie, how old do you think I am.
Problem with e's over here is that they are pricey and unreliable, I have found out at some cost.

Sorrry I thought you were older.... You are right though Thailand is crap for drugs.

The whole problem with the prevailing view of alcoholism is the maxim - once an alco always an alco. I don't think it is true. Alcoholism isn't a lifetime affliction. There have been periods in my life where I have gone on out and out problem binges for months at a time. But looking back I can relate them to personal problems I had - The booze was a symptom of another problem not a disease itself- I know I always have to watch it with the booze but I can go two months without a sip of beer and not miss it and then go on a ten day drinking holiday completely over do it but stop at the end of it.

The problem with recovery programmes etc are that they leave you in a constant state of "recovery" and the mind set that you have some chronic disease. Don't let AAers turn you into a victim.

**ChiangMai noon** · 12-03-2007, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Sorrry I thought you were older.... You are right though Thailand is crap for drugs.

Old enough to remember them being really good in the very late 80's.(?1990)

Originally Posted by mad_dog

The whole problem with the prevailing view of alcoholism is the maxim - once an alco always an alco. I don't think it is true. Alcoholism isn't a lifetime affliction.

I think I am in agreement with that.
At least I hope you are right.
I know plenty of people who say otherwise though.

**stroller** · 12-03-2007, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by mad_dog

I know I always have to watch it with the booze but I can go two months without a sip of beer and not miss it and then go on a ten day drinking holiday completely over do it but stop at the end of it.

Classic, a textbook comment from an alcoholic.
No joking.

**mad_dog** · 12-03-2007, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by mad_dog

I know I always have to watch it with the booze but I can go two months without a sip of beer and not miss it and then go on a ten day drinking holiday completely over do it but stop at the end of it.

Classic, a textbook comment from an alcoholic.
No joking.

Balls. I know I like beer too much but if i can go months without wanting to drink it where is the harm in a good binge once in a while. Its sepo/Jew science trying to turn everyone into victims and sufferers i till ya!

**RandomChances** · 12-03-2007, 11:32 PM

A classic symtom fo alcholisium is denile, then again if you think you have a problem then you probably have......fucked either way really

**sabang** · 13-03-2007, 02:54 AM

Wotif u are an alcoholic and u admit it?
Does that negate the ploblem?

**danbo** · 13-03-2007, 03:23 AM

moderation....moderation....Moderation!....Moderat ion!....oh go on then, one more.

**friscofrankie** · 13-03-2007, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by blackgang

Only in AA will you lose that desire.

While I may agree with much of what you say I think this statement is utter Bullshit. While AA or NA or any other fuckin' A might help a person gain the strength to quit drinking, drugging, or whatever their self proclaimed "addiction" is. It is simply exchanging one crutch for another.

I am not an alcoholic, although I am drunk this very minute, I am not a drug addict although there is a joint in my lips awaiting some fire. Although I spent maybe 20 - 25 years of my life high on a combination of substances and still seek them out on occasion, I only considered my self an "addict" when I was young and easily influenced.

Anyone that has had a drink, toke or snort on more than one occasion, has most likely felt that rush of euphoria that said, "have another." Most of us here have given in, on an occasion or two. I know I have. Those that cannot ever have one, without the other (that temptation of giving in) may have a personality inclined to abuse or addictive behavior. Only by addressing that will you ever e free from the temptation. The use of other drugs, religion, or "self-help" support groups are simply enablers of a more acceptable form. By telling you that you are an addict, of any form, for life these so called "treatment" or "whatever anonymous" are excusing any future backslides.

If you have a "problem," you are not helpless against theses evils of booze or drugs. You simply choose to be. You have all you need to choose not to be. The first fucking program that will stand up and tell this truth will get my support.

By quitting for 75 (give or take) days then drinking a few waking up and realizing "so what?" then continuing on with life the dude has shown he is not taking the excuse "I have a disease," but has made a choice.

I disagree with the label "disease," it is not an irresistible force, nor chemical imbalance; not even a genetic disposition. "Addictive personalities" are simply the result of learned behavior. These things do not need an escape from, or excuse to shirk, responsibility for our behavior; but a direct realization that, ultimately, we are responsible.

**sabang** · 13-03-2007, 05:27 AM

That is a good post Ffrankie.
I have a simple question though- I believe some people cannot handle drugs like the majority. I have observed it, extensively, even tragically.
If ypu rule out genetic predisposition. or biologic factors, then why?

**mrsquirrel** · 13-03-2007, 06:45 AM

Sad, really really sad mate.

I admit I had to drink a cup of beer at the weekend but that was out of pure politeness and cultural awareness. They did ask if I used to drink before offering me the beer and pressurizing me into it.

You did it for pleasure. Back to square one.

**Eliminator** · 13-03-2007, 06:55 AM

Great post FF, couldn't agree more, if you can't handle the stuff (alchohol or drugs) then don't do them.

**klongmaster** · 13-03-2007, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by blackgang

OK KLONG fuck off

nice comment BG: but if that's the best you can do in a "debate" I feel sorry for you...

Originally Posted by blackgang

I am an alcohol therapist, with 25 years of sobriety, so I am a pro.

and I guess you're ex-SAS with a Black in Karate or TKD...tosser...

**Mr Earl** · 13-03-2007, 07:44 AM

CMN I'm not sure falling off the wagon with one night on singha counts.
That shit is horrible. You probably felt worse.

I'm going to wait for the free 12 year old scotch or maybe a german wheat beer.

But I tell ya it's nice getting up in the morning without a headache.
I like the energy I feel when I go swimming.

Just grab a fresh orange juice and head for the gym. no worries.

**blackgang** · 13-03-2007, 09:04 AM

Go ahead on er, no one really gives a shit, I know I don't and if you want to quit then do it and if you want to drink or what ever then do it.
But why come on a public forum and snivel and snort about what a fucked up life you have and then listen to some asshole that has the same problem and makes lite of it just because he can't control it and doesn't want to be the only one to admit it.
When you are the one in a bar with a lesser degree of what ever and up at the top end looking down at the poor bastard at the other end and saying, well when I get that bad I will do something about it, then when it is you down at the lower end you do do something about it, you go down the street to a lower class joint where you can be at the top end again and looking down at the lower end.
Just like that bullshit post of FF.
Sure I got a problem but it is nothing to worry about if you ain't no worse than me cause it is no problem to me, so just go ahead and do it then I won't be the only one with it and I can say look at me, I am not as bad a Charlie, now he got a problem, but not me..
There is help out there, There is a book that you should read if you think you might have a problem, There is a place to go if you think you might have a problem, If you have quit and then start again and still can't stop when you want to, then you are stupid to say that you have no problem when you have witnessed it first hand.
I care less about your drinking or drugging, I served my time and not I don't have to do it and I am the only one that I really give a fuck about, It does me good to look at you and talk to you because it means that I don't have to go have that first drink, I can see that it doesn't work for you so it wouldn't work for me and then I can use you for a Guinea pig and see the results of trying to drink like a responsible man again.
Just like it says in that book I mentioned, it says that we are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking.
Now that says it all for me.
I have seen proof that it is an incurable disease that will always be with me and if I drink I will go back to where I was 25 years ago, My own drinking was a progressive thing, just as it is with everyone I have ever talked to, it never gets better, but only gets worse year after year and you are free to quit anytime you want, but it is easier to do it together than do it alone.

**ChiangMai noon** · 13-03-2007, 10:20 AM

I think a lot of people are being very harsh on blackgang.
I for one am very grateful to his advice.

My life has improved radically since i stopped drinking, the little blip the other night notwithstanding. I did after all come on here asking for advice some time back and welcome it from a broad range. Frankie seems to be able to get pissed whenever he fancies, most people can. I have never known him to spend his days off in the way I used to do... sitting in the pub from 11.00 am at the latest until I could barely walk let alone drive myself home. A total waste of life but it was what I did every single time for a long time. He and others are offering good advice also. I don't think there is one single solution that fits all.

I'm not remotely interested in attending meetings with people who need eachother but that has more to do with a conservative not touchy feely, independant, fiercely atheistic upbringing. No way are you getting me into a room full of evangelical North Americans (statistically accurate in CM's AA) to discuss my problems.

I don't think it's a mistake to post this stuff on a public board and I value everyone's contribution to the discussion, even Butterfly's

Suffice to say, my life is better without alcohol in it, though I need some advice on combining a social life with teetotality.

**mrsquirrel** · 13-03-2007, 10:41 AM

It's easy mate.

You can go down the pub and drink water no problem.

It took three months or more for me to be able to do it but now I can it's not a problem.

give it a go.

**stroller** · 13-03-2007, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

No way are you getting me into a room full of evangelical North Americans (statistically accurate in CM's AA) to discuss my problems.

NA is a similar thing with a very different crowd.

**slimboyfat** · 13-03-2007, 11:56 AM

so we are not having a beer this afternoon at the golf then?

**ChiangMai noon** · 13-03-2007, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by slimboyfat

so we are not having a beer this afternoon at the golf then?

I'll just watch.

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