Space News thread

[harrybarracuda]

Yes, they did such things with the Hubble space telescope. Each of these missions was more expensive than sending a new telescope.

Also the Shuttle would not be capable of reaching Kepler. It is in an earth trailing solar orbit quite far from earth.

Where it is destined to roam until scavenged by space pirates for scrap.

[Takeovers]

BTW about bringing back space hardware from space.

In May this year I was at the Dornier Museum in Friedrichshafen. There was an instrument of the Hubble space telescope. The tour guide told us it is a mockup, of course never flown. But one of our group later dug deeper because it looked so real and complete. He found out that it actually was a flown instrument, brought back on one of the repair missions of the Space Shuttle. In that mission the instrument was exchanged for a new more advanced instrument.

[jabir]

Who owns abandoned space debris? If it's the nation/company that launched them, then surely they are also responsible for any damage caused by their property.

Could get interesting over the long haul, without internationally recognised rules/laws/protocols to comprehensibly address everything from mild to catastrophic space junk incidents.

[Takeovers]

Who owns abandoned space debris?

Under space agreements the nation launching it is responsible. That includes private entities.

If a commercial satellite is launched, ............... actually I am somewhat stuck here. For commercial satellites the owner of the satellite is responsible, which does not fit exactly with "the nation launching".

There are plenty of rules but most of them non binding, only recommendations. Like Satellites should deorbit after end of their useful life or go to a graveyard orbit where they are no thread. These are rules to avoid space debris. But most operators seem not to care.

There are also rules about deorbiting satellites. If they have components that reach the ground, they are required to have a certain maximum likelihood to kill people in the process. But again all not binding. It will be interesting what happens when somebody actually gets killed.

[Luigi]

^ Talking about satellites and crafts that come down, most are brought down to the Spacecraft Cemetery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_cemetery

https://gizmodo.com/this-watery-grav...ips-1703212211

Spaceship Wrecks

The Spacecraft Cemetery is the final resting place of 145 of Russia’s Progress autonomous resupply ships, 4 of Japan’s HTV cargo craft, and 5 of the ESA’s Automated Transfer Vehicles. 6 Russian Salyut space stations and the venerable Mir space station lie alongside the freighters that once supplied them.





And is where the ISS should end up.

[OhOh]

Fregat Upper Stage Rocket Separates From Soyuz Carrier Rocket

MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Fregat upper stage rocket carrying Glonass-M satellite has separated normally from the third stage of the Russian Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket, the Russian Defense Ministry told reporters on Friday night.



"The head block of the medium capacity space rocket Soyuz-2.1b, consisting of Fregat upper stage rocket and Glonass-M satellite, separated normally from the third stage of the carrier at the estimated time of 23:38 Moscow time [20:38 GMT]," the ministry said.


The carrier was launched at 23:17 Moscow time from the Russian Plesetsk сosmodrome.


Later, the ministry told reporters that fregat upper stage rocket has successfully placed Glonass-M satellite into orbit after separating from the third stage of the Russian Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket.


Glonass-M injection into orbit took several hours.

https://sputniknews.com/science/201811041069486752-russia-rocket-soyuz-rocket-launch/


A video of the recent failed rocket. At 43 seconds the top and r/h boosters clear but the l/h booster doesn't :

[jabir]

Curiosity on the move again, a month after NASA switched to a backup computer

NASA’s Curiosity rover is back to work after switching its ‘brain’ last month to resolve a memory anomaly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-computer.html

[jabir]

on the heels of...

Google MARS: NASA teams up with Google to create a virtual map of Mars

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ed-planet.html

Good stuff happening, not sure where Musk fits in but it'll be somewhere.

[Takeovers]

Google Mars exists and it has existed for years. I don't know if this is a joint effort of Google and NASA, other that Google used publicly available pictures from NASA to create it.

It is a pity that the resolution availble is not higher. Cameras in orbit of Mars like HiRISE can easily produce pictures of much higher resolution for all of Mars. Lacking is the transmit capacity to send them back to earth. Due to this bottleneck we have high definition imaging only for selected areas.

[jabir]

Google Mars exists and it has existed for years. I don't know if this is a joint effort of Google and NASA, other that Google used publicly available pictures from NASA to create it.

It is a pity that the resolution availble is not higher. Cameras in orbit of Mars like HiRISE can easily produce pictures of much higher resolution for all of Mars. Lacking is the transmit capacity to send them back to earth. Due to this bottleneck we have high definition imaging only for selected areas.

Give it time, hi def will come.

[Takeovers]

China unveils new 'Heavenly Palace' space station as ISS days numbered

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Ch...bered_999.html

China unveiled on Tuesday a replica of its first permanently crewed space station, which would replace the international community's orbiting laboratory and symbolises the country's major ambitions beyond Earth.

The 17-metre (55-foot) core module was a star attraction at the biennial Airshow China in the southern coastal city of Zhuhai, the country's main aerospace industry exhibition.

Outside, China's J-10 fighter jet and J-20 stealth fighter wowed spectators as they zoomed across Zhuhai's sky. Back inside, the country displayed its fleet of drones and other military hardware.

Crowds gathered around the cylindrical space station module representing the living and working quarters of the Tiangong -- or "Heavenly Palace" -- which will also have two other modules for scientific experiments and will be equipped with solar panels.

Three astronauts will be permanently stationed in the 60-tonne orbiting lab, which will enable the crew to conduct biological and microgravity research.

Assembly is expected to be completed around 2022 and the station would have a lifespan of around 10 years.
The International Space Station -- a collaboration between the United States, Russia, Canada, Europe and Japan -- has been in operation since 1998 but is due to be retired in 2024.
China will then have the only space station in orbit, though it will be much smaller than the ISS which weighs 400 tonnes and is as large as a football pitch.
- Billions spent -
The country announced in May that the lab would be open to "all countries" to conduct science experiments.
"There is no doubt that China will use its station in a similar way as the ISS partners are using their outpost: research, technology and as a stepping-stone for deep-space exploration," said Chen Lan, analyst at GoTaikonauts.com, a website specialised in the Chinese space programme.

Research institutes, universities, and public and private companies have been invited to propose projects. Some 40 plans from 27 countries and regions have been received, according to state media.
The European Space Agency has sent astronauts to China to receive training in order to be ready to work inside the Chinese space station once it is launched.
"I'm sure over time China will be successful developing partnerships," said Bill Ostrove, space analyst with US-based Forecast International consultancy.
"Many countries, and increasingly private companies and universities, have space programmes, but cannot afford to build their own space station," he said.
"The ability to put payloads and experiments on a human spaceflight platform is extremely valuable."
Beijing is pouring billions into its military-run space programme, with plans to send humans to the Moon in the near future.
Citing China as a threat, US President Donald Trump has launched plans to create a new "Space Force" to give his country dominance over rivals in space.

- Diverse space market -
But China's space programme has encountered some glitches.
A space lab dubbed Tiangong-1 disintegrated as it plunged back to Earth in early April, two years after it ceased functioning.
Chinese authorities denied that the lab -- which was placed in orbit in September 2011 as a testing ground for the permanent station -- was out of control.
A second lab, the Tiangong-2, was launched into orbit in 2016.
"Despite a lot of talk of the opposite, the United States remains the most dominant power in space right now," Ostrove said.

"The most likely scenario for the future is that China will emerge as one of the major space powers," he said.
But Russia, the European Space Agency, Japan and India will continue to play "major roles" in space exploration, while private firms are becoming increasingly important in the sector, Ostrove added.

"The space market is becoming more diverse," he said, "so it will be difficult for one or two countries or companies to dominate the field in the way the US and Soviet Union did during the Cold War."

A few comments.

The article describes deorbiting the station Tiangong-1 as a glitch. That's not correct. The station was at the end of its life and no more use was planned.

It also states that the chinese space program is run by the military. That's true and a significant part is definitely for military purposes. But they do a lot of space related science as well. They just don't do it under the umbrella of a separate civil agency like NASA. I don't see anything wrong with this approach at the present time. I think it is a major mistake by the US to block China from the ISS for this reason.

The station is quite small compared to the ISS. With a life span given as 10 years they probably won't expand it a lot. More likely that they will build a new more advanced station after that time. It saves them the cost and effort NASA spends on the ISS to keep it operational over its initial intended life span.

[Takeovers]

This is an interesting development.

Russian billionaire and oligarch Yuri Milner is spending a lot of money on private space missions. Among other projects he is proposing a privately funded mission for a flyby of Saturn moon Enceladus. Goal ist to detect life. Enceladus is a prime destination for potential life in the outer solar system because it has liquid water. Frequently water blows out from Enceladus and if they can get samples of that water it is possible to find life in it if it exists on Enceladus.

NASA seems to see value in the project. Enough to do some work to support it. Very little but that they do it at all is significant IMO.

https://gizmodo.com/report-nasa-and-...e-h-1830309201

It looks like NASA will offer billionaire entrepreneur and physicist Yuri Milner help on the first private deep-space mission: a journey designed to detect life, if it exists, on Saturn’s moon Enceladus, according to documents acquired by New Scientist.

New Scientist’s Mark Harris reports:

Agreements signed by NASA and Milner’s non-profit Breakthrough Starshot Foundation in September show that the organisations are working on scientific, technical and financial plans for the ambitious mission. NASA has committed over $70,000 to help produce a concept study for a flyby mission. The funds won’t be paid to Breakthrough but represent the agency’s own staffing costs on the project.

The teams will be working in the project plan and concepts through next year, New Scientist reports.
Icy moons orbiting Saturn and Jupiter are intriguing candidates for alien life. Jupiter’s moon Europa has evidence of water in the form of plumes spewing water vapor out of cracks in its icy surface. Representative John Culberson (R-Texas), who was recently voted out of office, was a strong proponent for a NASA mission to this icy world.
Enceladus specifically has evidence of a warm ocean and complex organic molecules, according to Cassini data, though it orbits Saturn, which is farther from Earth and Jupiter. Perhaps life has evolved beneath the ice around heat spewed from volcanic vents, as some animals have done in Earth’s deep oceans.
The Breakthrough Initiatives project seeks to answer the deepest questions about space, including whether we’re alone in the universe. Its board includes billionaires Yuri Milner and Mark Zuckerberg, and formerly physicist Stephen Hawking, who passed away in March. It lists mission concepts like a solar sail to reach nearby stars, developing the technology to find Earth-like exoplanets, and sending out a message meant for aliens, similar to the Arecibo message.
New Scientist reports that Breakthrough Initiatives would lead and pay for an Enceladus fly-by mission, with consulting from NASA.
Gizmodo has reached out to NASA and Breakthrough Initiatives for comment and will update this post when we hear back.
[New Scientist]

[Luigi]

^ I hope to see samples taken from the plumes of Enceladus and Europa in my lifetime.

I would be surprised if there isn't some very primitive life around their hydrothermal vents.

If so, the next step is testing their DNA. If it's completely alien to anything on Earth, it would probably be the biggest scientific find in human history.

[Takeovers]

I would be surprised if there isn't some very primitive life around their hydrothermal vents.

If so, the next step is testing their DNA. If it's completely alien to anything on Earth, it would probably be the biggest scientific find in human history.

I absolutely agree. It would be a very expensive mission but I have no doubt that money would be made available.

[BaitongBoy]

Cheers, guys...Some interesting stuff...

So, how far away is this moon?...

[Takeovers]

So, how far away is this moon?...

Enceladus is a moon of Saturn. So quite far out, beyond Jupiter. Flight time will be long, probably increased by a need of flybys to increase speed.

Another matter is how that probe would be powered. Up to now solar has only been used up to Jupiter. At Saturn panels will have to be even much larger. The probe needs power for its electronics but also to keep crucial components at the right temperature. Nuclear has its own issues. If there is interest I could write something about it.

[Luigi]

These arre the hydrothermal vents that Europa and Enceladus have, and are viewed as probably the most like place to alien life to exist in our solar system.

[harrybarracuda]

The aliens is watching.



https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/sp...-anything-seen

[OhOh]

Europa

Wasn't there a warning to stay away from there?

[harrybarracuda]

Wasn't there a warning to stay away from there?

No, silly. They just said don't land.

[Luigi]

Made me think of Wiki's Space Colonization pages. They have some very good pages for all the main bodies in the solar system.

This is the Colonization of Europa page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Europa

With regards to the possibility of life being around the hydrothermal vents there, this part is interesting:

"Oxygen is also believed to have accumulated from radiolysis of the ice on the surface that has been convected into the subsurface ocean and may prove sufficient for oxygen-using marine life"

"More recent studies have indicated that the action of solar radiation on the surface of Europa might produce oxygen, which could be pulled down into the subsurface ocean by upwellings of the interior. If this process occurs, Europa's subsurface ocean could have an oxygen content equal to or greater than that of the Earth's, possibly providing a home to more complex life"

[jabir]

Made me think of Wiki's Space Colonization pages. They have some very good pages for all the main bodies in the solar system.

This is the Colonization of Europa page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Europa

With regards to the possibility of life being around the hydrothermal vents there, this part is interesting:

"Oxygen is also believed to have accumulated from radiolysis of the ice on the surface that has been convected into the subsurface ocean and may prove sufficient for oxygen-using marine life"

"More recent studies have indicated that the action of solar radiation on the surface of Europa might produce oxygen, which could be pulled down into the subsurface ocean by upwellings of the interior. If this process occurs, Europa's subsurface ocean could have an oxygen content equal to or greater than that of the Earth's, possibly providing a home to more complex life"

Not sure I understand that, thought I heard a whoosh, but would be interesting if humans couldn't live on some rock or planet with a lethal atmosphere or other conditions, but which has water, so that fish might make it with. Then we could export a selection of sea creatures a la Noah, provide food by ferry, and leave it to future generations to check if they adapt, evolve and migrate to land.

How exciting, in a few million years they might introduce our successors to new gods.

[Luigi]

Well, the quotes show that there's evidence of subsurface oceans being oxygen rich, With along with the hydrothermal vents make it a major contender for alien life.


The bits I didn't quote, basically say that any people hoping to colonize it, best bring their digging tools and not be in need of creature comforts.

[OhOh]

No, silly. They just said don't land

When the story was written the only way one could "explore" was by "landing, walking around etc.". As some of us are aware, one does not now need to "land", on a planet, to explore and abuse it and it's inhabitants.

Do try and use your brain, prior to showing us all your closed mind.

[harrybarracuda]

When the story was written the only way one could "explore" was by "landing, walking around etc.". As some of us are aware, one does not now need to "land", on a planet, to explore and abuse it and it's inhabitants.

Do try and use your brain, prior to showing us all your closed mind.

I'm sorry. I didn't realise it was the place your tiny mind lives.