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  1. #26
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    A couple of points here:

    Firstly, being qualified to teach English in your home country does NOT qualify you to teach English as a foreign LANGUAGE to non native speakers. To employ a PGCE qualified English teacher from the UK in a Thai classroom, who has spent his/her career teaching Shakespeare to UK teens, would be akin to asking a doctor to remove your wisdom teeth.

    Secondly, qualified EFL teachers at the likes of the British Council earn around THB 85,000 a month. They also receive a generous benefits package including return flights, health insurance, all visas covered and a minimum of 35 days a year paid holidays. IDP and a few others offer similar packages albeit round about the 60k mark.

    Like most industries, what you earn depends on what you're able to offer.

  2. #27
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    ^ The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position.

    Thailand (especially certain locations) are seen as desirable - hence the proliferation of wanabe English teachers - driving the price down.

    They themselves are to blame by accepting ever lower salaries and stricter working conditions - thus the ever decreasing miserable pay persist.

    From my experience, English teachers in toyland are a disenfranchised lot - instead of forming a support network/backbone, they prefer to bicker with envy and resent other foreigners in tryland.

    (A bit representative of us lot on TD really).. jing jing.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZdick1983 View Post
    ^ The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position.

    Thailand (especially certain locations) are seen as desirable - hence the proliferation of wanabe English teachers - driving the price down.

    They themselves are to blame by accepting ever lower salaries and stricter working conditions - thus the ever decreasing miserable pay persist.

    From my experience, English teachers in toyland are a disenfranchised lot - instead of forming a support network/backbone, they prefer to bicker with envy and resent other foreigners in tryland.

    (A bit representative of us lot on TD really).. jing jing.
    "The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position."

    I'm not sure you've read my post, Richard.

    The markets I've spoken about aren't paying the least possible amount, and if you have a post grad practical qualification such as the DELTA to add to your degree and initial CELTA you can comfortably start talking 6 figures each month for relatively little work. And the benefits package is pretty sweet too.

    It all depends on what you're able to offer.

    There will always be a customer who will pay for quality just as there will be impoverished kids in government schools who at the very least hear a native voice 4 or 5 times a week.

  4. #29
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    ^ I get that, Hallelujah...

    I was addressing the shitty pay in general (not for the top-end).
    I didn't mean to sound patronizing, I know the majority are good teachers.

    They all deserve more money, but until they value themselves and stop accepting pitiful salaries the situation will only get worse (and teachers become poorer).

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZdick1983 View Post
    ^ I get that, Hallelujah...

    I was addressing the shitty pay in general (not for the top-end).
    I didn't mean to sound patronizing, I know the majority are good teachers.

    They all deserve more money, but until they value themselves and stop accepting pitiful salaries the situation will only get worse (and teachers become poorer).
    You're ever positive, Dick.

    Personally speaking, I think the absolutely unqualified TEFLers do a job to an extent, but I'm not sure about giving them more money. As I intimated above they fill a void, but I wouldn't want my kid taught by them.

    The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.

    Unfortunately, we all know that genuine opportunities in life remain out of reach for most people in Thailand...

  6. #31
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    Good points mate..

    However, I think the 'absolutely unqualified' riff-Raff have been culled by the ever more strict criteria for WP's..
    Unless you want to live under the radar - without a valid work permit, you must have a degree/relevant experience..

    In the end, the sad old mantra "pay peanuts, get monkeys" applies.
    Shitty wages will attract shitty applicants... by all means, scrutinize the teachers even further - but pay them decent wages otherwise the cream of the crop will go elsewhere (Japan/Korea/China) for a salary befitting their skills/qualifications - Thailand will be left with the bottom feeders (as it deserves).

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.
    They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing".

    The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

  8. #33
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    ^ I know there is a bad stigma staining Farang English teachers in Thailand...

    But from my experience, workmates, etc... maybe I was lucky/blessed, but they were a dedicated and professional group of people (except for the odd - and I mean "odd" ones)...

    They all took their jobs very seriously, went over and above the call of duty and really cared for their students (cue the violin, Hallelujah!!) lol


  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.
    They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing".

    The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?
    Thai licensing?

    IMO, Suitably qualified should mean a genuine degree to prove that the individual can function at graduate level and the benchmark initial qualification: a CELTA.

    This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.

    This is a distant dream though. Let's get a degree, CELTA and a supportive PD system in place first.
    Last edited by hallelujah; 09-07-2016 at 06:27 PM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.
    They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing".

    The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?
    Thai licensing?
    Yes, from the Teachers Council of Thailand.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Suitably qualified should be a genuine degree to prove that the individual can function at graduate level and the benchmark initial qualification: a CELTA.
    Foreign teachers in Thailand are required to have at least a Bachelor's degree. A CELTA or other TEFL type qualification is not required (by the Thai authorities).

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.
    That would depend on whichever employer one worked for. Some are/will be supportive of that. Others wouldn't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    This is a distant dream though.
    If one expects the Thai government to provide support and professional development for foreign teachers, yes, a distant dream.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.
    They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing".

    The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?
    Thai licensing?
    Yes, from the Teachers Council of Thailand.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Suitably qualified should be a genuine degree to prove that the individual can function at graduate level and the benchmark initial qualification: a CELTA.
    Foreign teachers in Thailand are required to have at least a Bachelor's degree. A CELTA or other TEFL type qualification is not required (by the Thai authorities).

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.
    That would depend on whichever employer one worked for. Some are/will be supportive of that. Others wouldn't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    This is a distant dream though.
    If one expects the Thai government to provide support and professional development for foreign teachers, yes, a distant dream.
    Quite.

    However, you did ask me

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Quite.

    However, you did ask me

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?
    Yes. I understand you were giving your opinion to my query.

    My opinion is that it depends where the individual is teaching. The CELTA, as fine a qualification as it is, is tailored towards teaching adults (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults) and its suitability for use in a Thai classroom is debatable. However, it is ideal for teaching adults in a well organised language centre.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Quite.

    However, you did ask me

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?
    Yes. I understand you were giving your opinion to my query.

    My opinion is that it depends where the individual is teaching. The CELTA, as fine a qualification as it is, is tailored towards teaching adults (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults) and its suitability for use in a Thai classroom is debatable. However, it is ideal for teaching adults in a well organised language centre.
    Fair point, but I think the skills you're first introduced to during the CELTA are transferable to any classroom and will make any learning environment more positive. Where it falls down with YLs tends to be classroom management and, obviously, understanding your learners.

    A lot of good practice is common sense though. If you've got half a brain and are willing to learn from your peers then the leap is relatively easy with a supportive and experienced management structure.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah
    Fair point, but I think the skills you're first introduced to during the CELTA are transferable to any classroom and will make any learning environment more positive. Where it falls down with YLs tends to be classroom management and, obviously, understanding your learners.
    This is a cowardly response. The guy clearly does not have a clue about teaching English and has probably not done it himself. Teaching English requires some skills but the most important thing is empathy with the student. This cannot be taught. A great deal depends on common sense. I can teach " one to one" but teaching to a class of people is infinitely easier.

  15. #40
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    Me: "A lot of good practice is common sense though. If you've got half a brain and are willing to learn from your peers then the leap is relatively easy with a supportive and experienced management structure."



    Is English your first language? I suspect not.

    Who on earth is talking about one to one teaching?

    You're pissed, aren't you?
    Last edited by hallelujah; 10-07-2016 at 05:16 AM.

  16. #41
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    ^ Teaching is the hardest profession in the world to do well.

    I believe it is a combination of careful study/application of human psychology and a blend of your personality/natural gifts.

    Learning how to inspire and motivate your students takes a love for teaching people, that can't be learned.

    I respect all my fellow teachers - it's a thankless profession, marred with low pay and high expectations.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZdick1983
    Teaching is the hardest profession in the world to do well.
    Bollocks.

    Teaching anything, to a person who has a desire to learn, is very easy. From rocket science to abc.

    Unfortunately most of the "teachers" in Thailand are teaching in some forgotten school and in some forgotten part of the country. Thais in those areas, have little desire to learn anything other than how to plough a paddy, how to attract a mate and how to get home after a days Kao Lao binge. A large % of the students have no impetus to buckle down and learn something they can't comprehend as having any relevance to their current, or future, lives. That includes many subjects not just a foreign language.

    Not every ex-pat, English teacher lives on Sukomvit road, Bangkok. As for the British Council I wonder what % of Thais have even heard of it
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah
    This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.
    I have a degree in linguistics. So go the C-D for 6 figures in Thailand? Those 6 figure teachers also have experience in their home country, not just theoretical knowledge.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munted View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah
    This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.
    I have a degree in linguistics. So go the C-D for 6 figures in Thailand? Those 6 figure teachers also have experience in their home country, not just theoretical knowledge.
    Congratulations on your linguistics degree. However, that would be worth pretty much jack shit in any EFL classroom worth it's salt without a practical EFL qualification.

    By the way, If you'd bothered to read the posts properly, you'd realise that the 6 figure EFL teachers I'm talking about often do NOT have experience in their home country.

    This is EFL we're talking about; the F - as in foreign - is a bit of a giveaway.

  20. #45
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    Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.
    "The urge to destroy is also a creative urge." Mikhail Bakunin.


  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munted View Post
    Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.
    If you have a TEFL qualification then you will realise that it means Teaching English as a FOREIGN Language, which is not the same as teaching the ins and outs of Macbeth to bored teenagers in your home country. The two jobs are not the same.

    How many fucking times have I got to explain this to you?

  22. #47
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    Real teachers with MEd and similar qualifications can get very good salaries in proper educational institutions in Asia. Those that are taking B20k-B30k/month jobs are in the informal sector, and are evidently not willing to commit to teaching as a profession and train and work formally in the west before going to Asia. It looks like desperation to escape the west and attempt a shortcut around years of study and work to reach the point where they're worth £20k-£30k a year.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1F2i0rYMj8

    we are all figments of our own imagination.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Munted View Post
    Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.
    If you have a TEFL qualification then you will realise that it means Teaching English as a FOREIGN Language, which is not the same as teaching the ins and outs of Macbeth to bored teenagers in your home country. The two jobs are not the same.

    How many fucking times have I got to explain this to you?
    True but you have not in any way refuted my assertion that you are just a dreamer.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munted View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Munted View Post
    Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.
    If you have a TEFL qualification then you will realise that it means Teaching English as a FOREIGN Language, which is not the same as teaching the ins and outs of Macbeth to bored teenagers in your home country. The two jobs are not the same.

    How many fucking times have I got to explain this to you?
    True but you have not in any way refuted my assertion that you are just a dreamer.
    Well done. I'll deal with your next point now.

    This is for a senior teacher in 2014 in Bangkok at the BC and requires a DELTA.

    https://jobs.britishcouncil.org/View...um=AtsViewLink

    "Salary is currently paid monthly in arrears on a 7 point scale, the scale minimum and maximum is shown
    below. Your starting point on the scale will be decided according to your qualifications and experience, unless
    you are already on the global salary scale.
    Minimum: 107,303 (Gross) Thai baht monthly. Average annual income tax is approximately 15%
    Maximum: 134,276 (Gross)
    Thai baht monthly. Average annual income tax is approximately 18%
    In addition to salary, an annual performance-related bonus, set annually by the Teaching Centre, will be paid
    on 31 December each year (pro-rata where applicable), subject to satisfactory performance. In
    2013 this was THB 25,000.
    The Aug 2014 exchange rate is £1 = 54 Thai baht"

    Anything else I can do for you?

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah
    and experience
    Thanks, you answered my query.

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