Thread: Why Do Farang English Teachers in Thailand Accept Low Salaries?

A couple of points here:

Firstly, being qualified to teach English in your home country does NOT qualify you to teach English as a foreign LANGUAGE to non native speakers. To employ a PGCE qualified English teacher from the UK in a Thai classroom, who has spent his/her career teaching Shakespeare to UK teens, would be akin to asking a doctor to remove your wisdom teeth.

Secondly, qualified EFL teachers at the likes of the British Council earn around THB 85,000 a month. They also receive a generous benefits package including return flights, health insurance, all visas covered and a minimum of 35 days a year paid holidays. IDP and a few others offer similar packages albeit round about the 60k mark.

Like most industries, what you earn depends on what you're able to offer.

^ The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position.

Thailand (especially certain locations) are seen as desirable - hence the proliferation of wanabe English teachers - driving the price down.

They themselves are to blame by accepting ever lower salaries and stricter working conditions - thus the ever decreasing miserable pay persist.

From my experience, English teachers in toyland are a disenfranchised lot - instead of forming a support network/backbone, they prefer to bicker with envy and resent other foreigners in tryland.

(A bit representative of us lot on TD really).. jing jing.

Originally Posted by NZdick1983

^ The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position.

Thailand (especially certain locations) are seen as desirable - hence the proliferation of wanabe English teachers - driving the price down.

They themselves are to blame by accepting ever lower salaries and stricter working conditions - thus the ever decreasing miserable pay persist.

From my experience, English teachers in toyland are a disenfranchised lot - instead of forming a support network/backbone, they prefer to bicker with envy and resent other foreigners in tryland.

(A bit representative of us lot on TD really).. jing jing.

"The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position."

I'm not sure you've read my post, Richard.

The markets I've spoken about aren't paying the least possible amount, and if you have a post grad practical qualification such as the DELTA to add to your degree and initial CELTA you can comfortably start talking 6 figures each month for relatively little work. And the benefits package is pretty sweet too.

It all depends on what you're able to offer.

There will always be a customer who will pay for quality just as there will be impoverished kids in government schools who at the very least hear a native voice 4 or 5 times a week.

^ I get that, Hallelujah...

I was addressing the shitty pay in general (not for the top-end).
I didn't mean to sound patronizing, I know the majority are good teachers.

They all deserve more money, but until they value themselves and stop accepting pitiful salaries the situation will only get worse (and teachers become poorer).

Originally Posted by NZdick1983

^ I get that, Hallelujah...

I was addressing the shitty pay in general (not for the top-end).
I didn't mean to sound patronizing, I know the majority are good teachers.

They all deserve more money, but until they value themselves and stop accepting pitiful salaries the situation will only get worse (and teachers become poorer).

You're ever positive, Dick.

Personally speaking, I think the absolutely unqualified TEFLers do a job to an extent, but I'm not sure about giving them more money. As I intimated above they fill a void, but I wouldn't want my kid taught by them.

The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.

Unfortunately, we all know that genuine opportunities in life remain out of reach for most people in Thailand...

Good points mate..

However, I think the 'absolutely unqualified' riff-Raff have been culled by the ever more strict criteria for WP's..
Unless you want to live under the radar - without a valid work permit, you must have a degree/relevant experience..

In the end, the sad old mantra "pay peanuts, get monkeys" applies.
Shitty wages will attract shitty applicants... by all means, scrutinize the teachers even further - but pay them decent wages otherwise the cream of the crop will go elsewhere (Japan/Korea/China) for a salary befitting their skills/qualifications - Thailand will be left with the bottom feeders (as it deserves).

Originally Posted by hallelujah

The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.

They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing".

The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

^ I know there is a bad stigma staining Farang English teachers in Thailand...

But from my experience, workmates, etc... maybe I was lucky/blessed, but they were a dedicated and professional group of people (except for the odd - and I mean "odd" ones)...

They all took their jobs very seriously, went over and above the call of duty and really cared for their students (cue the violin, Hallelujah!!) lol

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by hallelujah

The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.

They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing".

The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

Thai licensing?

Yes, from the Teachers Council of Thailand.

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Suitably qualified should be a genuine degree to prove that the individual can function at graduate level and the benchmark initial qualification: a CELTA.

Foreign teachers in Thailand are required to have at least a Bachelor's degree. A CELTA or other TEFL type qualification is not required (by the Thai authorities).

Originally Posted by hallelujah

This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.

That would depend on whichever employer one worked for. Some are/will be supportive of that. Others wouldn't care.

Originally Posted by hallelujah

This is a distant dream though.

If one expects the Thai government to provide support and professional development for foreign teachers, yes, a distant dream.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by hallelujah

The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.

They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing".

The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

Thai licensing?

Yes, from the Teachers Council of Thailand.

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Suitably qualified should be a genuine degree to prove that the individual can function at graduate level and the benchmark initial qualification: a CELTA.

Foreign teachers in Thailand are required to have at least a Bachelor's degree. A CELTA or other TEFL type qualification is not required (by the Thai authorities).

Originally Posted by hallelujah

This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.

That would depend on whichever employer one worked for. Some are/will be supportive of that. Others wouldn't care.

Originally Posted by hallelujah

This is a distant dream though.

If one expects the Thai government to provide support and professional development for foreign teachers, yes, a distant dream.

Quite.

However, you did ask me

Originally Posted by Neverna

what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Quite.

However, you did ask me

Originally Posted by Neverna

what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

Yes. I understand you were giving your opinion to my query.

My opinion is that it depends where the individual is teaching. The CELTA, as fine a qualification as it is, is tailored towards teaching adults (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults) and its suitability for use in a Thai classroom is debatable. However, it is ideal for teaching adults in a well organised language centre.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Quite.

However, you did ask me

Originally Posted by Neverna

what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

Yes. I understand you were giving your opinion to my query.

My opinion is that it depends where the individual is teaching. The CELTA, as fine a qualification as it is, is tailored towards teaching adults (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults) and its suitability for use in a Thai classroom is debatable. However, it is ideal for teaching adults in a well organised language centre.

Fair point, but I think the skills you're first introduced to during the CELTA are transferable to any classroom and will make any learning environment more positive. Where it falls down with YLs tends to be classroom management and, obviously, understanding your learners.

A lot of good practice is common sense though. If you've got half a brain and are willing to learn from your peers then the leap is relatively easy with a supportive and experienced management structure.

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Fair point, but I think the skills you're first introduced to during the CELTA are transferable to any classroom and will make any learning environment more positive. Where it falls down with YLs tends to be classroom management and, obviously, understanding your learners.

This is a cowardly response. The guy clearly does not have a clue about teaching English and has probably not done it himself. Teaching English requires some skills but the most important thing is empathy with the student. This cannot be taught. A great deal depends on common sense. I can teach " one to one" but teaching to a class of people is infinitely easier.

^ Teaching is the hardest profession in the world to do well.

I believe it is a combination of careful study/application of human psychology and a blend of your personality/natural gifts.

Learning how to inspire and motivate your students takes a love for teaching people, that can't be learned.

I respect all my fellow teachers - it's a thankless profession, marred with low pay and high expectations.

Originally Posted by hallelujah

This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.

I have a degree in linguistics. So go the C-D for 6 figures in Thailand? Those 6 figure teachers also have experience in their home country, not just theoretical knowledge.

Originally Posted by Munted

Originally Posted by hallelujah

This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.

I have a degree in linguistics. So go the C-D for 6 figures in Thailand? Those 6 figure teachers also have experience in their home country, not just theoretical knowledge.

Congratulations on your linguistics degree. However, that would be worth pretty much jack shit in any EFL classroom worth it's salt without a practical EFL qualification.

By the way, If you'd bothered to read the posts properly, you'd realise that the 6 figure EFL teachers I'm talking about often do NOT have experience in their home country.

This is EFL we're talking about; the F - as in foreign - is a bit of a giveaway.

Originally Posted by Munted

Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.

If you have a TEFL qualification then you will realise that it means Teaching English as a FOREIGN Language, which is not the same as teaching the ins and outs of Macbeth to bored teenagers in your home country. The two jobs are not the same.

How many fucking times have I got to explain this to you?

Real teachers with MEd and similar qualifications can get very good salaries in proper educational institutions in Asia. Those that are taking B20k-B30k/month jobs are in the informal sector, and are evidently not willing to commit to teaching as a profession and train and work formally in the west before going to Asia. It looks like desperation to escape the west and attempt a shortcut around years of study and work to reach the point where they're worth £20k-£30k a year.

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Originally Posted by Munted

Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.

If you have a TEFL qualification then you will realise that it means Teaching English as a FOREIGN Language, which is not the same as teaching the ins and outs of Macbeth to bored teenagers in your home country. The two jobs are not the same.

How many fucking times have I got to explain this to you?

True but you have not in any way refuted my assertion that you are just a dreamer.

Originally Posted by Munted

Originally Posted by hallelujah

Originally Posted by Munted

Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.

If you have a TEFL qualification then you will realise that it means Teaching English as a FOREIGN Language, which is not the same as teaching the ins and outs of Macbeth to bored teenagers in your home country. The two jobs are not the same.

How many fucking times have I got to explain this to you?

True but you have not in any way refuted my assertion that you are just a dreamer.

Well done. I'll deal with your next point now.

This is for a senior teacher in 2014 in Bangkok at the BC and requires a DELTA.

https://jobs.britishcouncil.org/View...um=AtsViewLink

"Salary is currently paid monthly in arrears on a 7 point scale, the scale minimum and maximum is shown
below. Your starting point on the scale will be decided according to your qualifications and experience, unless
you are already on the global salary scale.
Minimum: 107,303 (Gross) Thai baht monthly. Average annual income tax is approximately 15%
Maximum: 134,276 (Gross) Thai baht monthly. Average annual income tax is approximately 18%
In addition to salary, an annual performance-related bonus, set annually by the Teaching Centre, will be paid
on 31 December each year (pro-rata where applicable), subject to satisfactory performance. In
2013 this was THB 25,000.
The Aug 2014 exchange rate is £1 = 54 Thai baht"

Anything else I can do for you?

Originally Posted by hallelujah

and experience

Thanks, you answered my query.