Thread: Selling TEFL courses

Another TEFL course salesman exposed as a kickback-giving wanker. Chiang Mai University Language Institute this time.


Language Matters: Chiang Mai University

Corruption is endemic in Thailand, although for foreigners it is often difficult to sense the rot beneath the surface.

In late 2005 I transferred from the English Department to a job at Chiang Mai University's Language Institute, where I developed and taught a course in TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language). The person who hired me was Matthew John Kay, an Australian with a hankering to be called "Dr. Matt".

Matt belongs to an interesting demographic in Thailand's Western community. Driven by demons they can't share, his cohort (almost all of them men) seem to have come here to escape. They want to change identities. The may not want to change their names (an increasingly difficult task), but they do want to get away from the past.



I have noted elsewhere that his Ph.D. is almost certainly bogus.

The Naked Travelling Salesman: One of the reasons our TEFL course was so successful is that Matt is a brilliant salesman. As he put it, you need to “romance” people into taking the course. And romance them he did, despite the facts of the TEFL marketplace.

Many foreigners in Chiang Mai want to be English teachers, so the market is saturated. Furthermore, in Asian countries employers are generally reluctant to employ middle-aged men to teach English. English teaching is primarily a young person’s gig. Yet Matt filled our classes with middle-aged men. He put bums in seats - in a couple of cases, the bums of continental Europeans whose command of English was poor. Whether the heads above those bums had even completed high school was irrelevant to him - although fortunately for the TEFL teachers and the class itself, most of our students were great.

Quantity – not quality – is Matt's mantra. That is because, as he explains it, 50 per cent of the profits from the TEFL program are earmarked for him; the balance goes to the Language Institute. At least, that was the arrangement in the beginning.

After the TEFL program became a success, Matt says the university expanded his remit, greatly increasing his earning potential. Now he gets 50 per cent of profits from all programs provided for foreigners. This is highly significant. After all, Westerners are willing to pay very high course fees by local standards. Thus, Matt gets half the profit from the most profitable programs the university offers.

When I worked with Matt, he often talked frankly about arrangements he said he had made with the university administration. At the time I thought it was odd he did so, since these were not honest business practices. It was not until my “Aha!” realization about psychopathy that all became clear. Yes, bragging about corrupt business dealings – even when it puts yourself and your business partners at risk of discovery – fits the psychopathic pattern.

When he came to the Language Institute with the idea of developing a TEFL program, Matt took a reasonable proposal to the university administration. He would pay all the start-up costs for a Teaching English as a Foreign Language program, if he were given half of net profits. The university agreed, with conditions.

The program quickly became a great success. As a result, the decision-makers involved – the director of the Language Institute, a vice president and the university president – appear to have quickly realized there could be money in it for them as well. Because “Dr. Matt" was happy to share his gains, they agreed to put the most profitable courses (those involving course fees and other charges to Westerners) into his basket.

What is each person’s take? Incredibly, he also shared that information with me. Of Matt’s 50 per cent, he keeps 20 per cent; another 20 per cent goes to the head of the Language Institute, and the president and vice president share the remaining ten per cent. This is a sweet deal for those four, but it is part of a zero-sum game. They win while others lose.

You sure got a lot of time on your hands.

You are right, mate. Maybe I'll go off photographing a piece of cardboard placed in various places around town.

^ touche

Smeg, i have been reading your critical observations about the state of the English teaching industry in Thailand for some time. While i don't doubt that you have some valid points, although i have no first hand experience of the industry, your relentless crusade puzzles me somewhat.

Apart from seemingly being hell bent on taking down a few well known figures in the industry, who you seem to have a personal dislike for, what is the aim of all of this? Surely the state of this industry is of the Thais' own making, and it's up to them to improve the standards of the people who operate within it?

smeg is my hero. the epitome of nobility and frankness..keep up the good work man

Sour grapes?
Good on him I'd say.

Originally Posted by Smeg

You are right, mate. Maybe I'll go off photographing a piece of cardboard placed in various places around town.

A darn sight funnier than your lectures.

^ fookin hysterical

signs around town and teachers in Thailand are both comical

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie

Smeg, i have been reading your critical observations about the state of the English teaching industry in Thailand for some time. While i don't doubt that you have some valid points, although i have no first hand experience of the industry, your relentless crusade puzzles me somewhat.

Apart from seemingly being hell bent on taking down a few well known figures in the industry, who you seem to have a personal dislike for, what is the aim of all of this? Surely the state of this industry is of the Thais' own making, and it's up to them to improve the standards of the people who operate within it?

Bangkok Shill and kenkannif have a relentless scheme to lie, deceive, charm, and trick their way into a living off the backs of the people following behind them into the sad world of TEFL. They know that they fucked up so they might as well make some money out of the next people to do the same, as its all they've got left, and neither of them can stand teaching. So, as long as they are relentless, so will my strong distaste for them be.

Originally Posted by Smeg

Bangkok Phil and kenkannif have a relentless scheme to lie, deceive, charm, and trick their way into a living off the backs of the people following behind them into the sad world of TEFL.

They know that they fucked up so they might as well make some money out of the next people to do the same, as its all they've got left, and neither of them can stand teaching. So, as long as they are relentless, so will my strong distaste for them be.

This is a new one, again.

Why don't you all just jump into a nice warm bubbling jacuzzi together and discuss it like real men?

I have to stick up for the OP and what I have read here seems to go along with what I have experienced. Although I have lived here for a number of years, one day, I saw an ad for the TEFEL deal at CMU. I always thought, maybe one day I will need to teach English, either for extra money, or just to keep busy. What I had read in the past about schools in CM, lead me to believe there was not a credible place to take a Tefel course here. But when I read the CMU was offering one, I was more interested.

Now, the biggest thing that has got me about this situation is that when I called the number, and spoke to Dr. Matt, he said the next class was starting in about a week, and because I was not ready to take a class that soon, I asked about the next one. HE TOLD ME THAT THE NEXT TWO CLASS PERIODS WERE ALREADY FULL AND THAT I NEEDED TO TAKE THIS ONE OR FORGET IT FOR 6 MONTHS.

So I did sign up. What is the problem with this? Well, I have some health problems and at this time, was not really ready to take on 12 hours a day of work, 7 days a week. He did not make it sound like the class was too much work either. So I paid the money, and dropped out after about the first week or two, because I felt that I could not keep up.

Am I just an idiot? No, first of all English is my first language, second of all I have a BA already, and went to 2 years of one of the most difficult graduate programs in my country, and did pretty well, even though in the end I had to drop out due to the same health problems I still have.

If I had been able to take the time, to prepare better, like for 6-8 weeks when the next class was starting, I would have probably done fine. I have to take some medications that make me sleepy and stupid, and have to manage that well, when I want to be productive. When I have the time to prepare my body, I am okay, and have been pretty successful in life, since I dropped out of my grad school program, with this illness.

However, having only one week or less to prepare, I was not able to handle it well. I have thought many times, since I quit, that it must have been a lie that the next classes were full, and this was a sales technique to get me and my money now. For one, because they don't seem to have a limit on how many people can take the class. For another, when I met the people taking the class, they were not a bunch of people who just arrived here, but were mostly people who had lived already for a long time in Thailand, and +/- 2months to take the class would have no problems for them. I mean, if you have lived here for 10 years already, for 3 years already, and decide to take this class, it probably isn't an emergency that you take it now, and everyone I met in the class seemed to have good ways of supporting themselves in Thailand, and teaching was only going to be for "fun money" or to keep busy.

Several people did not even live in Northern Thailand, but were taking the class because they finally (thought they had found) a class with some credibility.

Then, once the class started, they divided it into two groups, and although they didn't say how they came up with this, it was soon obvious. All the people who had a university degree, got paired with the teacher who was younger than all of us, and had no teaching experience. The ones who only had a highschool diploma got paired with the teacher who was really good. Why? Because I suppose they thought that people without previous experience needed a better teacher, and those of us who had made it through school already, could figure it out on our own.

The teacher that I had, made a comment one day, about how "old time schools" actually deduct points for writing papers that have spellling and grammar errors, and how stupid this teacher thought that was, how old-fashioned, etc., and how those people in Ivory Towers should just go screw off and die somewhere, because they are not current with university life.

And this person really had a degree in teaching language, but doesn't think spelling or grammar should have an effect on your grade? Well, what should? Your good looks, you sex abilities, what???????????? I don't think I have ever taken any level of class that didn't take these things into account, to a large extent.

And why was it when this teacher taught, I seemed to not be able to latch on to any regular path, could not take notes, didn't find something worthy of writing down, and the lectures did not remind me of the 4 hours of reading I did the night before? But one day, when we switched teachers, the other teacher, the old guy, lectured exactly per the notes and my memory of what I had read, and that he presented it just like I was used to after 7 years of univeristy studies?

But that guy wasn't teaching my class. (But he is the guy who writes about his experience at CMU on the link the OP or someone mentioned above.)

I was immediately ready to blame myself, my medications, my health problems for making me too stupid. After the fact, I realized that Dr. Matt surely lied to me about the class being unavailable later, and probably I had legit complaints about the teacher I was given. I had already decided that if I took the class again, I would request the "old guy" teacher, not the young person just out of some (maybe not legit) school.

I am happy to read this today, which verifies for me that I am not totally crazy, or totally a loser, and that some people at CMU may have the real problems, and at best are probably scam artists. What is new really? Thailand specializes in these kind of people. Probably the main reason I haven't thought up any good business ideas while I have spent many years here, is because I am a very honest person, and can't/won't think up the bullshit that many will and that I won't act like an idiot just to get some money. ( I may act like an idiot for no good reason, but it will not be to steal money from people or to mislead them.)

Anyway, I would like to thank the OP for writing this story and sharing what he/she knows.

^Good Lord!

I have to agree somewhat with the dog-lover, that the most important factor is the tutor, not the school. Take your time and sit in on a few classes, then insist on taking a class with the tutor who impresses you most.

When I took my TEFL, I was lucky to get a nice chap from Boston called Bill. Running concurrently with our class was one taken by a dickhead alky from Yorkshire called David. Chalk & cheese, yet the students were supposed to be paying for the same course.

Originally Posted by Matthew

I'm trying to understand how you didn't notice the CELTA or the SIT TESOL (two REAL courses designed and evaluated outside of Thailand) being offered in Chiang Mai.

The CELTA isn't available in Chiang Mai, according to Cambridge ESOL. There are seven centres in Thailand where you can do it - five in Bangkok and two in Phuket.

Cambridge ESOL - Teaching Awards Centres

Originally Posted by Smeg

“Aha!” realization about psychopathy that all became clear. Yes, bragging about corrupt business dealings – even when it puts yourself and your business partners at risk of discovery – fits the psychopathic pattern.

[Pedant Mode]Point of order, wouldn't that actually be "sociopathic pattern". "Psychopathy" is a different, mental, kettle of fish altogether[/Pedant Mode]

Originally Posted by ILoveDogs

I have thought many times, since I quit, that it must have been a lie that the next classes were full, and this was a sales technique to get me and my money now.

Anyway, I would like to thank the OP for writing this story and sharing what he/she knows.

Almost certainly a lie. These types of people have absolutely no reason to be truthful. BTW, I didn't write the OP. It is taken from the linked blog.

Originally Posted by Lillybean

Good Lord!

This from a blind old bat who backs up her mate kenkannif, another lying little TEFL course selling shit, to the hilt, even using her mod status to support the guy in a biased way.

That site is so sad in the way people back each other up because they have met in real life etc rather than based on post content, ethics, honesty etc.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

The CELTA isn't available in Chiang Mai

Not sure that's true benners.

EEC are running one.
possibly another gaff too.

Cambridge CELTA Chiang Mai, Thailand

Cambridge CELTA

:: Course Details :: School Details :: Timetable :: Prices & Dates :: How to Apply :: Apply Now! :: Help for Jobs ::Course Details

Course ref. 2596
Course TypeCambridge CELTA
Min Age18
Class Times09:00-18:00
Course Description

The Cambridge Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults (CELTA) is designed for both native speakers and non-native speakers with a near native-speaker competence, who are aged over 18 and have a high level of formal education. Previous teaching experience is not required. During the course, candidates develop familiarity with the principles of effective teaching and acquire a range of practical skills for teaching English to adult learners. The course includes teaching practice, observation of experienced teachers in the classroom and completion of a range of practically focussed written assignments.

The course is highly practical in nature and aims to provide a thorough grounding in the teaching methodology and language analysis necessary for effective English teaching. Internationally recognized, the CELTA is run in over 100 centres world-wide and is widely regarded as one of the most important and valuable forms of training in TEFL. Please look at the Cactus site, for more general information about the course content.


A word about the application form

The application form for the Bangkok course is really one of the toughest we have encountered. We highly recommend that you take some time over its completion, and refer to a grammar book such as "English Grammar in Use" by Raymond Murphy (this particular book will always serve you well both on the course, and when you embark on your teaching career) or any similar text which explains how grammar works in simple terms.

You might find it useful to chat to a practising teacher just to get a feel for what will be involved on the course, and your subsequent career. We do recommend that you try and tackle the form alone though. The work you put in now will be highly useful later, and will give the trainers marking your pre-course task the chance to see what you, personally, are capable of doing. Good luck!
School Details - Chiang Mai

The school belongs to the largest private language school in Thailand, which has other branches all over Thailand.

Students range in age from young children to retirement age adult learners, and in ability from absolute beginners to advanced. The school is firmly committed to providing professional, affordable tuition to their students, and are proud of the fact that almost all urban Thais with a regular job can afford to take our courses. They also offer regular scholarships.

The schools are open every day of the week - you do not have to work every day of course - from about 8.30 in the morning until 9 in the evening, although we close earlier at weekends. All schools are air-conditioned, and the classrooms are clean, bright and well ventilated. Each room has a whiteboard, desks and chairs, a cassette recorder, and VCRs and OHPs are also available.
The average class size is ten to twelve students, with a maximum of sixteen. The teachers’ room contains a full range of textbooks including accompanying teachers’ books, reference books, cassettes, supplementary teaching activities and games. There is also access to photocopiers. The school has a no smoking policy, which includes the teachers’ room and coffee bars.
Timetable

09:00-18:00
Help for Jobs

Job prospects

There is a considerable demand for English teachers within Thailand but the money varies greatly geographically and within language schools.The school has 50 schools around the country and usually has approx. 10 vacancies every month.
How to Apply

1. Choose the start date which interests you. If you’re still unsure, please choose an approximate date for now – you will be able to specify later.
2. Register your details with Cactus TEFL (1 minute) to help us track your application.
3. Download the application form and save it on your computer.
4. Complete it offline in your own time
5. Go back to TEFL Course TEFL Jobs, sign in and submit your completed form.
6. We will keep you posted by email throughout the process.

You can also submit an application by fax, or post. We will explain how to do this on the application form. Please contact us if you would like us to post you an empty application form.
Prices and Dates

Please choose your preferred start date

4 weeks course starting 13/08/2007 for £8194 weeks course starting 05/11/2007 for £819

Cambridge CELTA Chiang Mai, Thailand

School Details - Chiang Mai
The school is part of the IH World Organisation (IHWO), which has been at the cutting edge of teacher training ever since it was founded in the 1950s. Course participants will undertake training at an institute that is dedicated to professionalism, reflected by the fact that the school itself only hires teachers who have the CELTA or equivalent. The teacher trainers actually include a contributor to the renowned Headway series teacher's books.

see, i told you benners.

Originally Posted by Celta chaps in Chiang Mai

The teacher trainers actually include a contributor to the renowned Headway series teacher's books.

I'm not sure you'd want to admit that.

Originally Posted by Smeg

The man clearly has one thing on his mind.

So even in the brochure they actively encourage sex with students?

Wouldn't fancy him or those two.