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  1. #1
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    S.F. homeless are bad for environment

    San Francisco: wealthy opponents of new shelter claim homeless are bad for environment

    The effort to block construction of a new shelter comes as city’s homeless population surges to more than 8,000


    More than 1,400 wait for temporary shelter spots to open up in San Francisco each night, and the city has promised to increase the number of shelter beds by 1,000. Photograph: Jeff Chiu/AP

    The wealthy San Francisco residents who launched a crowdfunding campaign to block construction of a new homeless shelter in their waterfront neighborhood are employing a new tactic: arguing that homeless people are bad for the environment.

    In a lawsuit filed against the city of San Francisco and the California State Lands Commission, the residents called for the project to undergo an environmental review before breaking ground.

    “This project will have a significant effect on the environment due to these unusual circumstances, including by attracting additional homeless persons, open drug and alcohol use, crime, daily emergency calls, public urination and defecation, and other nuisances,” the lawsuit states.

    Opponents of infrastructure and affordable housing projects often call upon the California Environmental Quality Act as a stalling ploy to delay construction. The law requires developers to explore any environmental effects a project might have, and take steps to reduce them.

    Attorneys for the residents, paid for by the more than $102,000 raised through the GoFundMe campaign, argued in the lawsuit that the project did not undergo a full environmental review process.

    The city has argued that the project – a 200-bed temporary homeless shelter – is exempt was from such reviews.

    “I question if this a legitimate concern or a last-ditch attempt to block the shelter by any means necessary,” said Kelley Cutler, the human rights organizer for the Coalition on Homelessness. “Methane emissions are bad for the environment, and this smells like bullshit.”

    The residents’ fight against this homeless shelter comes as San Francisco’s homeless population surged, with city officials tallying more than 8,000 during the last homeless count. More than 1,400 wait for temporary shelter spots to open up each night, and the city has promised to increase the number of shelter beds by 1,000. Homelessness in San Francisco has reached the level of a humanitarian crisis, fueled in part by the tech boom supercharging the housing market.

    Opponents of the shelter have long said that their ultimate concern is public safety, a point that homeless rights advocates have argued was bigoted and dehumanizing. In addition to the environmental concerns, the lawsuit states that the project is “likely to decrease the fair market value” for any future projects in that location.

    The city is reviewing the lawsuit, said John Coté, a spokesman for the city attorney Dennis Herrera, but the project has already undergone all required environmental review and the Board of Supervisors has denied several appeals under the California Environmental Quality Act.

    “San Francisco has a homeless crisis on its hands,” Coté said. “The city is ready to put roofs over people’s heads and get them indoors. Others are filing baseless lawsuits to keep people out in the cold. Rather than trying to shift the problem to someone else’s backyard, everyone needs to do their part.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...helter-lawsuit

  2. #2
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    “Methane emissions are bad for the environment, and this smells like homeless shit.”
    .....

  3. #3
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    Putting a roof over a great portion of the homeless peoples head fixes nothing. The problem is far deeper than that. People need to understand why they are homeless and address the root cause. Sadly many people migrate to affluent areas in hopes of receiving more hand outs and by becoming an annoyance and a burden they do and will. You seldom see homeless people in rural areas or poor areas because there is no money in it for them.

    There was street report in San Jose last year that my daughter sent me. This girl interviewed a few homeless people. Many of them can pull in $80 to $100 a day standing on a corner begging using various signs to play on peoples emotions. Depending on how many days they hustle they could pull in $500 to $700 a week (Tax free mind you ). Then they typically and sadly go buy drugs, alcohol and other things with it rather then find a room to rent.

    All of this homeless outrage is in many ways warranted. While I do not want to sound insensitive I do not ever give them money and have encouraged others to do the same. In San Jose a few years back they started to remove the homeless people sleeping in the city and moved them to city parks. The homeless people were pissed off and fought it because it took them away from cash flow.

    Anyway its a complex problem and sadly one that us US taxpayers pay for. The constant cost to move them, clean up where they urinate, defecate, vomit, throw their garbage is costly. Some do get violent and threatening when you do not give them money.

    Every few years this hits the radar because it gets out of hand. When the weather warms up a bit, more come. My brother was in SF about 3 weeks ago and said it was really quite nasty. He said people can't sit at bus benches because it is taken by a drunk homeless person sleeping.

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    While something needs to be done to shelter more homeless in S.F., can’t say that I would want a homeless shelter built near my expensive lodgings. Does seem a place located away from a residential area would be better.

    San Francisco gets the big rap for homelessness, I think, because of two reasons. The first is that the Tenderloin where most of the homeless and associated nastiness exists is so visible. The second is that so many right leaning news outlets want to play up the problem to point out how bad things are in a liberal run city. Housing prices are rising faster than new housing can be developed even for teachers and policemen, much less homeless shelters.



    And, on a worldwide comparison, SF doesn’t even make the list.


    13. Wаѕhіngtоn D.С., Unіtеd Ѕtаtеѕ; 9,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    12. Вudареѕt, Нungаrу; 10,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    11. Ѕеаttlе, Wаѕhіngtоn Ѕtаtе, Unіtеd Ѕtаtеѕ; 12,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    10. Воѕtоn, Маѕѕасhuѕеttѕ, Unіtеd Ѕtаtеѕ; 16,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    9. Ѕао Раulо, Вrаzіl; 21,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    8. Вuеnоѕ Аіrеѕ, Аrgеntіnа, 30,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    7. Мехісо Сіtу, Мехісо; 46,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    6. Моѕсоw, Ruѕѕіа; 50,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    5. Јаkаrtа, Іndоnеѕіа, 50,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    4. Lоѕ Аngеlеѕ, Саlіfоrnіа, Unіtеd Ѕtаtеѕ; 58,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    3. Мumbаі, Іndіа; 60,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    2. Nеw Yоrk Сіtу, Nеw Yоrk, Unіtеd Ѕtаtеѕ; 74,000 hоmеlеѕѕ
    1. Маnіlа, Рhіlірріnеѕ; 3.1 mіllіоn hоmеlеѕѕ

    https://www.trendrr.net/13046/top-ci...famous-lowest/
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    Manila has 3.1 million homeless people?

    That's awful.

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    People need to understand why they are homeless and address the root cause.
    enlighten us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happynz View Post
    Manila has 3.1 million homeless people?

    That's awful.
    Blame that succession of papal wankers.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    enlighten us.
    Really?

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    really.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    really.
    I mean its common sense really. Would you like me to bullet that out for you?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    Sadly many people migrate to affluent areas in hopes of receiving more hand outs and by becoming an annoyance and a burden they do and will. You seldom see homeless people in rural areas or poor areas because there is no money in it for them.
    .
    Hmmmmm.

    Because, like most migrants, they move to cities because there's a better chance of finding work. Not handouts.

    Do you think people actually want to live on the street begging for a $ here and a $ there?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Hmmmmm.

    Because, like most migrants, they move to cities because there's a better chance of finding work. Not handouts.

    Do you think people actually want to live on the street begging for a $ here and a $ there?
    Absolutely not. People move to big cities for exactly that. But its also known that many homeless migrate to where there is money for handouts.

    I do not think anyone wants to be homeless but many it has become away of life for the area they chose. COL is not affordable.

  13. #13
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    It does not need much to happen to anybody (OK, almost, not to people like Epstein).
    Over 40 million in USA live in Poverty.
    In 2016, 40.6 million people lived in Poverty USA. That means the poverty rate for 2016 was 12.7%. Use our interactive map to take a closer look at poverty statistics in the United States.

    Who lives in Poverty USA?

    All those who make less than the Federal government’s official poverty threshold... which for a family of four is about $24,000.00
    https://www.povertyusa.org/facts

    And beside those, even who is lucky enough to be over that threshold - living from paycheck to paycheck - it can take few things and he/she is homeless very fast:
    - illness, loss of job, divorce, loss of house, legal problems, bad family, bad friends, you name it...

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    Would you like me to bullet that out for you?
    yes.

    .

  15. #15
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    Why don't you give us your perspective Reachy?

  16. #16
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    Would you like me to bullet that out for you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    * illness,
    * loss of job,
    * divorce,
    * loss of house,
    * legal problems,
    * bad family,
    * bad friends
    A good start from Klondyke here.

  17. #17
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    Thanks Norts for breaking it out for Ray

    I mean its really pretty obvious the reasons why it happens. Typically lawmakers do not want to know why, they just want the problem to go away. But to fix the problem one needs to understand why its happening. I doubt seriously that any of them want to be in that position, many work diligently and need help. Others just want handouts and someone to fix it for them.

    To Klondykes post, Many are on the edge every day of being in a dire position. They work a lot and eek out a basic life. Los Angeles is far worse off compared to SF.

  18. #18
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    He said people can't sit at bus benches because it is taken by a drunk homeless person sleeping.
    ...an unfortunate generalization: I walked from the St. Francis Hotel to a nearby Starbucks and passed two vacant benches despite the presence of zombie-like homeless...while some are clearly drug-addled, many appeared situationally aware, suspecting that Starbucks clientele might offer better prospects for cash than, say, those frequenting the Jack-in-the-Box a block away...however, the main question I have remains unanswered: why choose SF and freeze at night when LA offers better weather for urban camping...
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...an unfortunate generalization:
    Sorry TC, forgot to state "Some" or "Many" bus benches..

    But to the rest of your post, "MANY" homeless frequent Starbucks area because "MOST" allow them to use the toilets where as places like Jack in the box display strict signage stating "Toilets are for customers" only.

    LA has far more Homeless people compared to SF but the LA area is much larger and spread out with more areas to "Take up Camp"

    Regardless, it is a problem and it is worsening every year.

  20. #20
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    I recall vividly the first influx of SF homeless. Happened in early 1970s when Regan as then gov signed a bill closing CA mental institutions. Result with no place to live the nutters headed to SF. Coupled with return of Vietnam vets suffering from PTSD and drug dependency and SF had a noticable problem. Noticable because SF is only 120 km2.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  21. #21
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    Scope of the Problem

    According to the most recent report from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), there are more than 610,000 people experiencing homelessness on any given night in this country. In Texas, according to this same report, there were 29,615 persons homeless in 2013, meaning that approximately 12 out of every 10,000 persons in Texas are homeless (down from 15 out of every 10,000 persons in 2011). And in the Houston area, the most recent statistics indicate that more than 6,300 people are without a home on any given night.



    In addition to the direct impact on individuals and families who are without a home, enormous costs accrue to our society in general from the problem of homelessness. These costs are incurred in the areas of medical treatment, hospitalization, police intervention, incarceration, the provision of emergency shelters, and other areas. In fact, nearly $103 million is spent annually on chronically homeless individuals in our community.

    Homelessness 101 | Coalition

  22. #22
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    With all objections to the system as practised by the communist regimes in Eastern Block countries, one is to be admitted:

    They had had almost zero homeless problem.

    Unlike nowadays once living for 30 years in desired "democracy".

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Happened in early 1970s when Regan as then gov signed a bill closing CA mental institutions.
    and then he did it again on a national scale in the 80s when he was president.

    this is why the decades long problem with homelessness has been so severe.

    as many as half the US homeless population suffers from a mental illness.

    and then there are the people who were living paycheck to paycheck and were then laid off... and teenagers kicked out of their homes... and teenagers who ran away from home to escape sexual or physical abuse...and those addicted to opiates or alcohol....women fleeing mental and physical abuse...etc...

    to conclude that the unfortunate circumstances they find themselves in is somehow their choice is the height of arrogance and ignorance.

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    Live just outside of downtown Berkeley and have grown more and more despairing of there ever being a solution here for many of the homeless on our streets. Served on the City housing commission, but the cost of building affordable housing is so high that little gets built but the effort still employs quite a few do-gooders . I seldom give money except to presentable quiet spoken older black men whose world has disappeared leaving them adrift among those who never worked along side them, never give to the young 'travelers' who show up from somewhere enroute to somewhere. Always take leftover food from restaurants remembering to include napkins and tableware. Sigh.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudcat View Post
    Live just outside of downtown Berkeley and have grown more and more despairing of there ever being a solution here for many of the homeless on our streets. Served on the City housing commission, but the cost of building affordable housing is so high that little gets built but the effort still employs quite a few do-gooders . I seldom give money except to presentable quiet spoken older black men whose world has disappeared leaving them adrift among those who never worked along side them, never give to the young 'travelers' who show up from somewhere enroute to somewhere. Always take leftover food from restaurants remembering to include napkins and tableware. Sigh.
    So like plates, glasses and cutlery?

    I hope you pay for them.

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