Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by Switch

The biggest positive for me, is that the commission is supremely overconfident, and Juncker never bothered to get life rafts for the inevitable sinking of SS Eutopia.

No one will die, but Juncker and his commission will be covered in ignominy for all of history.

Not sure I can agree on the no one will die bit, a monster like the EU cannot succumb without blood on the streets, and lots of it courtesy of the numerous individuals and groups that thrive on exploiting chaos.

Is Turkey Lurkey at it again?

I'm surprised he hasn't switched to his Jean-Claude Juncker nick.

I don’t actually expect UK to leave the EU. The suspicion is that our parliamentarians are far too precious to allow it. Outside the EU they would actually be obliged to work for a living, instead of sponging off state benefits for politicians.
As the EU has taken over the majority of the day to day running of the country, they remain in the same number, doing less for higher remuneration and greater pensions.
Why on earth would anyone expect altruism to interfere with their daily bread?
The government has managed to vastly reduce the civil service by handing over their duties to overpaid Belgians, but the size of the HoC remains the same, and modernization/replacement of the Lords has been kicked into the long grass.
I understand a few CS staff have been hired, or moved to cover essential Brexit preparations. Temporary smoke and mirrors, just like May’s proposed deal, that is actually no deal at all.
British politics might be in a parlous state, but the premise under which the EU operates is hugely flawed. They have assumed far to many powers that belong to member states. They are insidious and unrelenting in their reach for ever more power and influence.
It will be their undoing. No matter how much Troy shakes his head or pinches the bridge of his nose theatrically, the Eu monster is closer to extinction than ever.

It seems quite probable that article 50 will be extended.

May has already demonstrated she will abandon timetables without a second thought.

Originally Posted by Switch

The biggest positive for me, is that the commission is supremely overconfident, and Juncker never bothered to get life rafts for the inevitable sinking of SS Eutopia.

No one will die, but Juncker and his commission will be covered in ignominy for all of history.

you have clearly left Earth

I heard that drinking or smelling your own piss for too long would do that,

The confidence which some of these BREXITers seem to have when expressing how Europe loathes the EU really is a bit of a joke.

Round 5 of government defeat

Brexit: MPs to resume debate on PM's plan
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46805269

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Round 5 of government defeat

Brexit: MPs to resume debate on PM's plan
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46805269

It's all so fucking pointless. Let's just skip forward a week to the vote and see what Doris plans to do next.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

It's all so fucking pointless. Let's just skip forward a week to the vote and see what Doris plans to do next.

I think it's part of a game, exhausting everyone with meaningless debates until they give up by exhaustion

The May Agreement needs to be debated in full before it is thrown on the strap heap of stupid. The worry is she'll keep receiving this piece of junk.

Thought it was debated in full before Xmas then she pulled the vote, nothing has changed so further debate is pointless. Doris unless totally delusional must know it will still get voted down if she doesn't pull the vote again so as I said may aswell just skip forward a week and see what she is going to do next.

^^ Apologies for the phone's word prediction, probably written to May Government specs...

Originally Posted by Switch

I don’t actually expect UK to leave the EU.

Is that another one of your predictions, to go along with the no-deal Brexit you predicted before Christmas?

Originally Posted by Switch

Come 29 March, the UK will be out.

Originally Posted by Switch

I don’t actually expect UK to leave the EU.

What changed your mind?

Originally Posted by Troy

^^ Apologies for the phone's word prediction, probably written to May Government specs...



Is that another one of your predictions, to go along with the no-deal Brexit you predicted before Christmas?

No deal is a requirement of the original vote. I am bitterly disappointed with the total lack of spine shown, by both Cameron and May. All they needed to do was give the EU a list of demands. As soon as any of those demands were rejected by the EU, it should have led immediately to no deal.
Walk away and let the EU think about what they are losing. Instead, according to Cyrille, we now face the prospect of extending article 50 and living through the same nausea ad infinitum.

It needs stability and decent politicians, both of which have been absent for nearly 2 years of pointless negotiations.

I expect the UK to fold and accept whatever the EU offers. That is the only kind of politician we have left now, especially after Yvette Cooper cut the rug from under any future funding for no deal. Westminster is crawling with gutless self interested flip flops with no style and no standards. The feeble bunch of tossers.

Originally Posted by Switch

but why is May hiding all the positives about Brexit?

....

Originally Posted by cyrille

The confidence which some of these BREXITers seem to have when expressing how Europe loathes the EU really is a bit of a joke.

Since the Withdrawal Agreement was finalised in November, Selmayr and Weyand have left most of the public words to their bosses Juncker and Barnier, but behind the scenes various reports have emerged of what these two officials think. And these officials are the ones who know the detail best. Both have been clear that the Agreement is overwhelmingly favourable to the European Union.
The deal wasn’t even yet signed when Weyand briefed EU ambassadors on Friday 9th November, as reported in The Times: “They must align their rules but the EU will retain all the controls. They apply the same rules. UK wants a lot more from future relationship, so EU retains its leverage.” And that “we should be in the best negotiation position for the future relationship. This requires the customs union as the basis of the future relationship.” And also that Britain “would have to swallow a link between access to products and fisheries in future agreements.”
Dominic Raab resigned over the agreement, and stated that Selmayr had been boasting that “losing Northern Ireland” was the “price of Brexit”. “You would hear swirling around in Brussels – particularly the people around Selmayr, Martin Selmayr in the Commission, and some others – that losing Northern Ireland was the price the UK would pay for Brexit,” said Mr Raab. “This was reported to me through the diplomatic channel”. “It is one thing to defend your interests robustly, but there is another thing in the spirit of so-called European unity to be trying to carve up a major European nation.”
Selmayr told a meeting of EU sherpas on Friday 23rd November that “the power is with us”.
Unusually for such a senior official, Selmayr himself gave an interview to the obscure German regional newspaper the Passauer Neue Presse on 7th December, claiming that the agreement now proved that Brexit “doesn’t work”. “The Europeans are at one on the question of Brexit. All have noticed, that this exit from the EU, which the populists have extolled as a great success, doesn’t work. The other 27 states are united: they have negotiated hard and realised their objectives.”
And to put the ball back into London’s court, an unnamed senior EU official told The Times: “To use a Christmas theme, we want all parties and factions in the British parliament to feel the bleak midwinter.”
These are hardly ringing endorsements of a treaty between friendly, democratic and free-market nations. The agreement, in the word of the EU’s most senior officials, “doesn’t work,” it leaves “the power with us [the EU]”, and that the EU has “the best negotiating position for the future relationship” and that losing part of one’s country is “the price of Brexit”.
So what does it mean for the future?
Some might claim that these are mere officials, and that we should judge the Withdrawal Agreement on its merits, not on how others choose to paint it. There are three reasons why we should be further concerned about what this means for the future trade relationship, yet to be negotiated.
First, the same people are likely to be in charge from the EU side. These are people totally committed to seeing that Britain is harmed. These are also the people most on top of the detail. Selmayr even reportedly wants to run the trade negotiations, even though that would ordinarily be a matter for DG Trade in Brussels.
Selmayr’s views on trade deals in general is also very unhelpful for the UK. For example, there is strong evidence that he wouldn’t allow data to be included in any future EU-UK trade deal. He is reported to have insisted that deals “should include things like cars, cheese and beef”.
Second, Selmayr and Weyand have manipulated the negotiations to first insist that the Future Relationship needed to be separate to the Withdrawal Agreement (which we should never have agreed to – but that’s another story), but nonetheless insert the things that mattered most to them into the Withdrawal Agreement – like Geographic Indicators and the Backstop itself, which are actually all about the future relationship, and not about the divorce. This doesn’t augur well for the future talks. Nor does Weyand’s briefing to EU ambassadors that the agreement “requires the customs union as the basis of the future relationship”.
Third, and most importantly, these officials will be growing in power in the coming months and years. Juncker will be gone in June, after the European elections, as will all the other commissioners, including probably the capable and experienced Trade Commissioner, Cecilia Malmström. Barnier’s future after June is also uncertain. The European Parliament will be new and could well have a very different make up in numbers and in faces to that presently.
The continuity in Brussels will be provided by senior officials like Selmayr and Weyand. If they succeed in getting the Withdrawal Agreement over the line, who will be able to stop them?

^ A bit like complaining the opposition were too strong when losing at football...

You really need to start looking at the UK for the faults not the EU. The EU position has been pretty clear from the outset and PM May agreed to the NI backstop in December 2017, in order to allow Brexit to progress further.

The idea that the EU need the UK more than the UK needs the EU is total bollox, as explained by thegent back in 2016, and every other week thereafter. Perhaps that's why the UK didn't simply walk away from the start.

Such papers as the Daily Express, The Sun and Daily Mail have been playing the UK population for fools and you still haven't worked it out.

Originally Posted by Troy

^ A bit like complaining the opposition were too strong when losing at football...

You really need to start looking at the UK for the faults not the EU. The EU position has been pretty clear from the outset and PM May agreed to the NI backstop in December 2017, in order to allow Brexit to progress further.

The idea that the EU need the UK more than the UK needs the EU is total bollox, as explained by thegent back in 2016, and every other week thereafter. Perhaps that's why the UK didn't simply walk away from the start.

Such papers as the Daily Express, The Sun and Daily Mail have been playing the UK population for fools and you still haven't worked it out.

I think you have me confused with someone else. Nothing that you have just written makes any sense to my position on this subject.
The fact that our political class has no stones, is beyond question. May is a remainer. Of course she accepted what was on offer. The post I just made explains how and why the offer was made.
Remain supporters are ignoring that. Nothing to do with tabloid frenzy. I am an outsider looking in and it seems the entire nation has been deceived by bullies in the EU.

I never said that the EU needs us more than the uk needs the Eu. I simply put forward the FACT that the Eu do not want UK to leave, and they have gone to incredible and disingenuous lengths to achieve that.

What is that I haven’t worked out. The gutter press are the media equivalent of a shit stirring troll on an obscure Thai forum? That you are being led by donkeys to a trough full of spoiled drinking water? That the Eu are arrogant and overconfident enough to promise May almost anything to keep the unruly uk scum under the Eutopian thumb.

Yup. Definitely got me confused with someone else.

Originally Posted by Switch

Since the Withdrawal Agreement was

Some tory gobshite wrote all that.
https://www.conservativehome.com/pla...xit-talks.html

We could have left happily and cleanly by now if it were not for the traitorous enemy within, the Fucking Filthy Tory Cvunts.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

The EU is a unit of countries. GB is leaving. So why would the EU break or even bend the rules to accomodate the wishes of GB? You may call that as in favor of the EU if you want.

Not that I am in favor of all the EU does. I used to be but I was never in favor of the Euro.

There are two current problems with uk’s membership.
The electorate has voted to leave, and the government has tried to negotiate a deal to leave. The deal on offer leaves the Eu with a strangle hold over the uk and it’s future involvement with Europe.

Despite the fact that it is clearly unsatisfactory and unlikely to get through parliament, the PM is still trying to flog it to MPs.
While the EU is under no obligation to make Brexit easy, they have gone out of their way to make Brexit impossible for anyone apart from the PM. Thus she insists that her deal is the only option.

In reality, her deal will be voted down next week. The government will face a vote of no confidence because of the vote failing.

Mrs May can call a general election on a date of her choosing, or try again with her crap deal, by frightening her MPs with the alternative. A no deal Brexit.

She has made no serious plans for no deal, but if she calls an election after 29 March, no deal automatically becomes the only option left.

Its what is know technically as a clusterfuck.

Originally Posted by Switch

and the government has tried to negotiate a deal to leave.

No, they put in place an EU Federalist with a mandate to make sure the UK does not leave. This resulted in...

Originally Posted by Switch

The deal on offer leaves the Eu with a strangle hold over the uk and it’s future involvement with Europe.

Originally Posted by Switch

In reality, her deal will be voted down next week.

I would hazard a guess that it will scrape through. The dossiers of all the tories molesting kids will be waved under their noses and they will toe the line. Blairites in Labour will vote for it, and all the remainers will see it for what it is, a stepping stone to remaining and full federalisation as is their desire.

Then comes the protests an riots... and then a world of hurt is launched against the UK by the EU.

^ quick, under the table...tin helmets ON!

Originally Posted by Switch

The deal on offer leaves the Eu with a strangle hold over the uk and it’s future involvement with Europe.

The sticky point is the border within Ireland. Expecting the EU to accept an open border unconditionally is ludicrous. Setting up that trap is the own doing by the UK.