Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by Troy

I didn't realise until recently that the managed no-deal also requires an A50 extension to sort out all the side issues. It sounds as easy as getting the EU to jump up and down wanting a trade deal. "They need us more than we need them"; appears to have failed miserably.

The major EU countries are united politically in their view on brexit so trying to split them on economic terms is going to fail. It already has so expecting it to suddenly change is foolhardy.

One would hope that the UK learn from brexit and realise just how good the EU is in keeping a united front in the face of adversity. The UK may also learn how beneficial it has been to be part of the EU over the years and start to appreciate them. It is not perfect by any means and there is definitely room for some British direction but it's worth sticking with.

The two brexit options, May's agreement and managed no-deal are both bad options. The best option, by far, is the third option, to stay in, for both political and economic reasons.

A change of leadership and a change in direction is needed. I'd even go further and have new MEP elections and trade our rebate for some more influence in Brussels. A little financial restructuring and I'd have the Euro as well. Let's face the UK could make Europe great again.

An extension is desirable for both sides, but not compulsory. Without one, both sides descend into chaos.

They might seem United now, but the last thing the real members need is a no deal Brexit, which is why they have not mentioned it yet. May is in the same game. Trying to use no deal as a frightener for her vote.

We agree on a change of leadership, but who needs it? No one up to it on the UK side. I also agree on a change of direction, but I want away from a failing E.U. suggesting we take the Euro as well is just showing more marbles missing. Sorry, no other way to put that.

Originally Posted by foobar

Expecting a good exit deal from the EU is equivalent to crashing out of your gym membership halfway through your contract, but still expecting to be able to use the facilities anytime you want, then when your swipe card stops working, creating a scene at reception, shouting and balling at no one in particular on how management are being really unfair and dishonourable because they are not respecting your decision to leave the club.

The UK has no leverage with the EU.....The choices are stay or hard Brexit.

Personal problems with your gym membership are not my problem, and it’s probably the poorest analogy I’ve ever seen.
Feel free carry on shouting at the moon. Eventually everyone will ignore you.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

you are mad

And you are an ignorant shit stirring troll. Goodbye

Chass, your ignorance is for all to see here

believing in some kind of managed hard brexit is clearly being in lala land,

but again when you lie in a pool of piss all day ...

Originally Posted by Switch

cherry pick partial quotes does you and readers a disservice.

Well then don't write so much shit, I quoted what was worth quoting in that post.

Originally Posted by Switch

An extension is desirable for both sides, but not compulsory. Without one, both sides descend into chaos.

You are utterly deluded if you think the EU needs the UK as much as the UK needs the EU.

The notion that the EU will descend into chaos if the UK triggers a hard brexit is probably the most unhinged and deluded thing I've ever heard a Brexiteer say...which is really something after the amount of nonsense posted in this thread.

Just like the guy who crashes out of his gym membership halfway through his contract and is still expecting to use the facilities, secure in the knowledge that the gym will descend into chaos if he's not a member, so management will be forced to just let him in for free along with all the other paying members ...deluded!

Originally Posted by Switch

suggesting we take the Euro as well is just showing more marbles missing. Sorry, no other way to put that.

No I don't think I've lost my marbles, it's just a different point of view to yours.

The single currency, politically, shows a willingness to integrate and goes a long way to bringing the UK closer to Europe. Research over the years has shown that the UK would benefit economically as well, although only slightly. It would however, increase the stability of the economy. The argument about UK being unable to change fiscal policy to offset downturns in the economy is the favourite against joining but this is just a lazy way out. Printing more money, as the UK did in 2008 is not the long term answer to improving an economy and you, the tax payer, were the victim of such laziness.

For me, the Euro for currency and English for language would be the ideal way forward for all EU countries. Too many of the UK population have been put off by misleading information

Originally Posted by foobar

You are utterly deluded if you think the EU needs the UK as much as the UK needs the EU.

The notion that the EU will descend into chaos if the UK triggers a hard brexit is probably the most unhinged and deluded thing I've ever heard a Brexiteer say...which is really something after the amount of nonsense posted in this thread.

Just like the guy who crashes out of his gym membership halfway through his contract and is still expecting to use the facilities, secure in the knowledge that the gym will descend into chaos if he's not a member, so management will be forced to just let him in for free along with all the other paying members ...deluded!

I did point out the failing of that dumbest of analogies the first time you posted it. Which just goes to show how silly and deluded you are. Goodbye.

Originally Posted by Troy

No I don't think I've lost my marbles, it's just a different point of view to yours.

The single currency, politically, shows a willingness to integrate and goes a long way to bringing the UK closer to Europe. Research over the years has shown that the UK would benefit economically as well, although only slightly. It would however, increase the stability of the economy. The argument about UK being unable to change fiscal policy to offset downturns in the economy is the favourite against joining but this is just a lazy way out. Printing more money, as the UK did in 2008 is not the long term answer to improving an economy and you, the tax payer, were the victim of such laziness.

For me, the Euro for currency and English for language would be the ideal way forward for all EU countries. Too many of the UK population have been put off by misleading information

So the rescues that have been funded by the ECB did not involve printing money underwritten by Germany?
Why are the southern nations, and Italy in particular, under such economic restraint? Because they adopted the Euro and can only act in unison with the wealthier better managed northern. economies.

IIRC it was UK money that bailed out Ireland. Another shining example of Euro mismanagement. No not convinced by any of your fallacious examples of the leaky colander that is the Euro. It’s just another classic example of the commission and its one size fits all mantra, when clearly that is not the case.
The EU and the Euro is such a basket case on so many levels, I wonder how anyone could possibly think it will work.

If the Eutopia is so wonderful and all consuming as a success, why are the E.U. so scared of UK leaving? Why are they using blatant punitive measures to make sure we don’t leave?

Originally Posted by Switch

I did point out the failing of that dumbest of analogies the first time you posted it. Which just goes to show how silly and deluded you are. Goodbye.

the analogy is actually quite accurate, but when people like yourself live in lala land, nothing logical will make sense, and you take everything you don't understand as deluded, which is of course highly ironic

Originally Posted by Switch

If the Eutopia is so wonderful and all consuming as a success, why are the E.U. so scared of UK leaving? Why are they using blatant punitive measures to make sure we don’t leave?

scared of UK leaving? you should really get out more out of your small village, and interact more often with non-chavs and real sensible people

we are actually looking forward for you to leave, you English delusional fool

Originally Posted by Troy

They are not scared and they are not using punitive measures. They are simply laying down the rules that must be followed in order to leave. The UK can't have without giving...

Why do you keep thinking the EU are punishing the UK? They have been consistent from the beginning and will remain so.

Greece and Italy are mismanaged and this is highlighted by the introduction of the Euro. Spain is a separate case and is a lot healthier than it would have been if left to fight alone.

I did include a caveat about better fiscal policy for euro countries but I haven't got details. The main aim is single currency for political cohesion and some tuning is definitely required. The UK could go a long way in helping with this.

At least you admit that the Euro is a political tool. The rest of your post smack of someone who had been brainwashed into ignoring the fookin obvious.

Originally Posted by Switch

An extension is desirable for both sides,

I presume that you believe this state of affairs has suddenly appeared from nowhere. FFS they've been at it for years.

Originally Posted by Switch

At least you admit that the Euro is a political tool. The rest of your post smack of someone who had been brainwashed into ignoring the fookin obvious.

Yep! Political and grossly simplified but there are ways to make it workable if the Germans can be suitably persuaded.

All academic for the UK now, with Brexit, of course, but a pity we went into the EU half-hearted rather than with the conviction of other countries. It's always so much easier to break things than it is to make them work properly.

I liked the article in The Guardian this morning; two films coming out on the day of Brexit: "Dumbo" and "Lord of Chaos"

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The Euro is a failed currency; everyone knows that.

Impressive reasoning there, Betty.

^^ Binary? Whatever, I call it natural selection, although without the UK involved a single language won't succeed.

No rules? There are rules to ensure the 4 main principles remain as the centre of the EU integration policy. The UK can scream and shout all it liked but those principles will not be broken, except on a temporary basis.

You'll see far worse problems in the UK before you'll see them in Germany. The EU has already restructured its budget to cope with the UK exit. They're in the public domain if you care to look.

There are problems within the EU and some policies need revising, especially fiscal policy in the Euro area but nothing like the problems the UK will be facing if they go down the hard brexit route.

It's quite obvious, after 18 months, that Brexit is a foolhardy idea fed to the public on a plate of lies. The most sensible thing to do is reverse it before it's too late.

No-one has supplied a viable alternative that is politically and/or economically better than the status-quo in the short, medium or long term.

Originally Posted by Troy

Yep! Political and grossly simplified but there are ways to make it workable if the Germans can be suitably persuaded.

All academic for the UK now, with Brexit, of course, but a pity we went into the EU half-hearted rather than with the conviction of other countries. It's always so much easier to break things than it is to make them work properly.

I liked the article in The Guardian this morning; two films coming out on the day of Brexit: "Dumbo" and "Lord of Chaos"

LoL. Green owed.

Originally Posted by Troy

^^ Binary? Whatever, I call it natural selection, although without the UK involved a single language won't succeed.

No rules? There are rules to ensure the 4 main principles remain as the centre of the EU integration policy. The UK can scream and shout all it liked but those principles will not be broken, except on a temporary basis.

You'll see far worse problems in the UK before you'll see them in Germany. The EU has already restructured its budget to cope with the UK exit. They're in the public domain if you care to look.

There are problems within the EU and some policies need revising, especially fiscal policy in the Euro area but nothing like the problems the UK will be facing if they go down the hard brexit route.

It's quite obvious, after 18 months, that Brexit is a foolhardy idea fed to the public on a plate of lies. The most sensible thing to do is reverse it before it's too late.

No-one has supplied a viable alternative that is politically and/or economically better than the status-quo in the short, medium or long term.

I think I prefer the idea of one country struggling through some temporary withdrawal symptoms, than the wrath of 27 countries, varyiously being told, you have to pay more, or, we are sorry, your E.U. funded project is postponed indefinitely.
It isn’t so much the lies, as the paucity of genuine information available, for ordinary folk to make an informed decision.
I realise that your view is very different from mine, but it has become more strident in recent days, especially the Euro.
The poor south. They are just tied to the richer northern countries so the Germans can sell them more cars and washing machines. No amount of fiscal tinkering can save the poorer southern countries.

Originally Posted by fubaa

You are utterly deluded if you think the EU needs the UK as much as the UK needs the EU.

The notion that the EU will descend into chaos if the UK triggers a hard brexit is probably the most unhinged and deluded thing I've ever heard a Brexiteer say...which is really something after the amount of nonsense posted in this thread.

Just like the guy who crashes out of his gym membership halfway through his contract and is still expecting to use the facilities, secure in the knowledge that the gym will descend into chaos if he's not a member, so management will be forced to just let him in for free along with all the other paying members ...deluded!

I don't think anyone is saying the EU will descend into chaos because the UK left with no deal, or even with a different deal. When it implodes as I believe it will, several factors will contribute including waste and abuse, corruption, lack of transparency, unaccountability, too much power in few unelected hands, and policies driven by rigid underlying ideology and goals that cannot cope with the modern world which is itself evolving perhaps faster than such an empire would wish or can address. The UK leaving with deal or no deal is a shock to the system, would certainly add to the burden, and this may result in a tipping point; but it will not be the cause.

If we are to fixate on Joe's gym membership, when he does leave he could get on with his life, not be obliged to continue paying membership fees, or to use their weights whenever they decide he should.

The UK parliament could be accused of all the reasons you have listed, and more, in its lifetime but it is still going as strong as ever.

You are going to have to come up with something a little more concrete than your whimsical imagination if you want others to take you seriously.

Originally Posted by Troy

^^ Binary? Whatever, I call it natural selection, although without the UK involved a single language won't succeed.

No rules? There are rules to ensure the 4 main principles remain as the centre of the EU integration policy. The UK can scream and shout all it liked but those principles will not be broken, except on a temporary basis.

You'll see far worse problems in the UK before you'll see them in Germany. The EU has already restructured its budget to cope with the UK exit. They're in the public domain if you care to look.

There are problems within the EU and some policies need revising, especially fiscal policy in the Euro area but nothing like the problems the UK will be facing if they go down the hard brexit route.

It's quite obvious, after 18 months, that Brexit is a foolhardy idea fed to the public on a plate of lies. The most sensible thing to do is reverse it before it's too late.

No-one has supplied a viable alternative that is politically and/or economically better than the status-quo in the short, medium or long term.

Of course there is not going to be a better deal in terms of trade with the EU than we currently have being a member of the single market but what as always you fail to acknowledge is that place called the rest of the world. The UK is a net importer of just about everything unable to strike it's own deals to import shit cheaper due to the protectionist racket that is the customs union. You Europhiles are so inward looking unlike us Brexiteers who see a whole world out there and the opportunities it brings.

Why do you think the EU continually has substantially lower growth than the rest of the world? Nothing to do with EU policies? Stifling business with costly rules and regulations making them uncompetitive just for overpaid Brussels jobsworths to justify their existence who much like SeekingAss have probably never worked a day in their life in the private sector so have no idea all the costs their Ill thought out shit puts on business.

You Troy just reading your posts are so out of touch it's unreal, people all over Europe don't want more integration and giving up of more sovereignty, it's just the power hungry politicians and hardened Europhiles such as yourself that do as the rest of us can see quite clearly where it's all going to end up.

Originally Posted by jabir

I don't think anyone is saying the EU will descend into chaos because the UK left with no deal

Originally Posted by Switch

An extension is desirable for both sides, but not compulsory. Without one, both sides descend into chaos.

They might seem United now, but the last thing the real members need is a no deal Brexit,

.....

Originally Posted by Troy

The UK parliament could be accused of all the reasons you have listed, and more, in its lifetime but it is still going as strong as ever.

You are going to have to come up with something a little more concrete than your whimsical imagination if you want others to take you seriously.

Well done, tu quoque is always a useful way to refute uncomfortable facts.

Every gov on earth could be accused of the same, but UK MPs members are elected and may be deselected, and the leadership is not in the process of building an empire of diverse nations, cultures, languages and social constructs toward a common cause. For starters...

And I don't expect anyone on this board to take anyone else seriously over disagreement.